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Heisenburg

Heisenburg

5/13/2012 3:27:15 PM
We have people starving in many countries, overpopulation, an energy crisis, cancer that needs curing, why are we blowing away billions for something that we have barely gained from?
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    Dare
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    A Cheese Potato

    A Cheese Potato

    5/15/2012 12:17:17 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Heisenburg [/quote] We can't all sell Crystal Meth [Edited on 05.15.2012 4:17 AM PDT]
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    Cameo Cream

    Cameo Cream

    5/15/2012 11:57:03 AM Permalink
    I think being able to see the Universe and possibly converse with another intelligent life is worth the money. Maybe not the fuel because of the environmental factor.
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    DreamingSword

    DreamingSword

    5/15/2012 11:44:31 AM Permalink
    If we don't leave this planet before it is too late, then humanity will vanish. Space exploration is the key to humanity's survival. I'd rather give away my money for the future rather than buying myself an island somewhere and be ignorant of the future.
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    nitwitcoffee10

    nitwitcoffee10

    5/14/2012 9:39:48 PM Permalink
    [url=http://www.google.com/search?q=what+do+we+get+from+the+space+program%3F&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a]Are you stupid or something?[/url] We got multiple things out of the space race: First we got a way into space. Second, we got the laser in your mouse, the LCD in your computer screen, the wireless in your XBOX controller, etc. Yeah, we could have spent billions of dollars investing in each of those things individually, but the space race brought them all in for a fraction of the cost. [Edited on 05.14.2012 1:42 PM PDT]
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    TheUnbannable

    TheUnbannable

    5/14/2012 9:30:02 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Heisenburg We have people starving in many countries, overpopulation, an energy crisis, cancer that needs curing, why are we blowing away billions for something that we have barely gained from?[/quote] so we can throw them in space for an end-all solution
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    The Super Q

    The Super Q

    5/14/2012 9:29:50 PM Permalink
    no u -blam!- off, you spoiler! Spaceships are the -blam!-! Maybe even [b]Da[/b] -blam!-. Think about it...
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    CharlesBrown33
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    Ultermarto

    Ultermarto

    5/14/2012 9:29:08 PM Permalink
    In a few million years this planet will kill us, and everything we've ever accomplished. Our sciences, our arts, our understanding. This dialect that we've pulled together. [i]And you don't want to see if there's a way out?[/i]
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    nuchy

    nuchy

    5/14/2012 9:27:25 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Seggi31 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H0FFman J [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Baph117 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] oaklandp8ntbalr One word: Resources. Space kinda has a lot of them. Earth doesn't.[/quote]Earth has enough resources to support a human population greater than what it is now.[/quote] [url=http://www.footprintnetwork.org/en/index.php/gfn/page/world_footprint/]Lol.[/url][/quote] "This means investing in technology and infrastructure that will allow us to operate in a resource-constrained world." [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] nuchy HA! Are you joking? We have gained so much from the space race between the US and Soviet Russia, its crazy! My teacher has shown me the list before but there are literally hundreds of things we developed from the space race. Some of them being Velcro, Safer car designs, better computer processing, and ways to make airplanes go faster. [/quote] Of course, you'd get those things much more easily and cheaply by investing in them directly. [quote]Space Exploration is not a waste of money, less than one percent of Americas budget goes into it. [/quote] Maybe that's because it's a waste of money. [quote]You know what 70% goes into? Bombs to blow up people with. Yeah that's not at all a waste of money. [/quote] Probs. Doesn't change anything, though, friend. [quote]OP is ignorant.[/quote] Seems kind of ignorant to assume that the OP's American or only talking about the US, too, but whatever.[/quote] Well I would assume the OP is talking about America because America has the leading space program. Also, if you think that building bombs to blow each other up with isn't a waste of money compared to learning about the universe in which we live, then you are an ignorant twat.
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    S 24993 JAMES

    S 24993 JAMES

    5/14/2012 9:03:10 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AJF1177 I'm fairly certain it was a super nova that made it. But one things for sure: there is a huge ass diamond floating in space. [url=http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/02/18/moonsized_diamond_found_in_space/]Found the article[/url] Its the size of the moon and it's only 50 light years away.[/quote]The article says it's a crystalised white dwarf. White dwarfs aren't formed by supernova. They're what happens when a star's mass was too small for it to go supernova. But holy crap that is awesome. I didn't even know such a thing was possible.
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    New Monarchy

    New Monarchy

    5/14/2012 8:56:31 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Heisenburg People starving in many countries [/quote] There is PLENTY of extra food on this planet, if people learned to stop being greedy and SHARE with their fellow man, this would be elminated. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Heisenburg Over Population [/quote] There's birth control that is easily accessible, people need to be responsible or learn to control themselves. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Heisenburg an energy crisis [/quote] we aren't utilizing all or our sources. Placing massive solar panels or wind turbines in the middle of deserts certainly wouldn't hurt. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Heisenburg cancer that needs curing [/quote] we can only research so fast, and for all we know, the cure to cancer could be found in an element that we find from space exploration.
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    awaw 25 halo
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    Nescio

    Nescio

    5/14/2012 8:40:21 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Big Black Badger You're assuming x = y, when there is a lot more to the situation than that. For one, prices are always going to rise over time because of inflation. If inflation in US currency is 3% for a year, all else equal, prices of all goods will rise 3%. Apply this over a decade of time, say 2000 to 2010 as an example period, and a dollar is worth 26.6% less over that time. That is a real world number. If Copper prices rise 26.6% over that time from 2000 to 2010 - in reality, in real dollar terms, they have risen 0%. This is completely ignoring how currencies rise and fall in relation to each other, suppliers and futures owners holding product off the market, and demand outstripping short term supply - factories need time to come online. In short, think about it a bit more.[/quote] Even if you'd account inflation, you'd still have a price increase of 394% (04-06 period) for copper, 139% for diamond (00-10 period) and 1674% for iron (00-10 period). These drastic price increases can't be explained by inflation.
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    Neez Duts

    Neez Duts

    5/14/2012 7:43:58 PM Permalink
    Mindlessly spending hundreds of billions and bringing the US into a massive debt is no better than space exploration. Also the space program spawned many new products we use every day.
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    AJF1177

    AJF1177

    5/14/2012 7:41:32 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] S 24993 JAMES [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AJF1177 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H0FFman J [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Baph117 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H0FFman J Then what is it? Claiming that the world has enough resources to support an even bigger population is ludicrous, fossil fuels are running out, prices of [url=http://www.commodityblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/copperpirce.jpg]minerals[/url] are soaring, rain-forests that filter CO2 are now being demolished to make room for soy plantages and residents, pollution is aggravating and[url=http://arabic.wunderground.com/health/pollutiondeaths.jpg] fine dust particles are accumulation in dense urban areas.[/url] [url=http://www1.american.edu/ted/ice/congo-coltan.htm]Minerals are getting so scarce that there are even wars being fought over.[/url] And don't get me started on how the US is waisting their helium reserves. Even if we invest in technology, we wouldn't be able to keep up with the current population growth. Do you even know how long it takes to design, test, cultivate and spread a genetically altered crop? The only thing I can envision is a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusian_catastrophe]Malthusian catastrope[/url]. Unless space exploration becomes something realizable. [/quote] Why are you citing spot prices of copper as proof of a diminished world capacity? There is 2 billion tons of reserves - demand is only 15 million a year. And this is ignoring an obvious point: copper is a very available resource and is easily recycled. Recycling rates are over 75%.[/quote] Then why has the copper price tripled between 04 and 06? [url=http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/14/metals-copper-theft-idUSN1E76D1W620110714]It has become so expensive that copper thievery has increased substantially. [/url] I could also give examples of other minerals if you'd like. [url=http://blog.rogermontgomery.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/30-Year-iron-ore-price-chart-to-March-2011.png]Iron ore[/url], [url=http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/wp-content/gallery/charts/10-year-gold-price-chart-jul-09.jpg]Gold[/url], [url=http://www.ajediam.com/images/site/Historical_diamond_prices_1960_2010_Source_Ajediam.jpg]diamond[/url]. [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jan/27/rare-minerals-global-renewables-industry]Terbium, yttrium, dysprosium, europium and neodymium[/url]. [url=http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5559]This[/url] also quite interesting.[/quote]I remember reading somewhere that after a star went super nova it formed a huge diamond so space solves the diamond part.[/quote]I'm for space travel, but I'm fairly sure that's false. As far as I know they just fuse elements heavier than iron during supernova. Diamond is made from carbon, which is lighter.[/quote]I'm fairly certain it was a super nova that made it. But one things for sure: there is a huge ass diamond floating in space. [url=http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/02/18/moonsized_diamond_found_in_space/]Found the article[/url] Its the size of the moon and it's only 50 light years away. [Edited on 05.14.2012 11:48 AM PDT]
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    Big Black Badger

    Big Black Badger

    5/14/2012 7:39:37 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H0FFman J [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Baph117 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H0FFman J Then what is it? Claiming that the world has enough resources to support an even bigger population is ludicrous, fossil fuels are running out, prices of [url=http://www.commodityblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/copperpirce.jpg]minerals[/url] are soaring, rain-forests that filter CO2 are now being demolished to make room for soy plantages and residents, pollution is aggravating and[url=http://arabic.wunderground.com/health/pollutiondeaths.jpg] fine dust particles are accumulation in dense urban areas.[/url] [url=http://www1.american.edu/ted/ice/congo-coltan.htm]Minerals are getting so scarce that there are even wars being fought over.[/url] And don't get me started on how the US is waisting their helium reserves. Even if we invest in technology, we wouldn't be able to keep up with the current population growth. Do you even know how long it takes to design, test, cultivate and spread a genetically altered crop? The only thing I can envision is a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusian_catastrophe]Malthusian catastrope[/url]. Unless space exploration becomes something realizable. [/quote] Why are you citing spot prices of copper as proof of a diminished world capacity? There is 2 billion tons of reserves - demand is only 15 million a year. And this is ignoring an obvious point: copper is a very available resource and is easily recycled. Recycling rates are over 75%.[/quote] Then why has the copper price tripled between 04 and 06? [url=http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/14/metals-copper-theft-idUSN1E76D1W620110714]It has become so expensive that copper thievery has increased substantially. [/url] I could also give examples of other minerals if you'd like. [url=http://blog.rogermontgomery.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/30-Year-iron-ore-price-chart-to-March-2011.png]Iron ore[/url], [url=http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/wp-content/gallery/charts/10-year-gold-price-chart-jul-09.jpg]Gold[/url], [url=http://www.ajediam.com/images/site/Historical_diamond_prices_1960_2010_Source_Ajediam.jpg]diamond[/url]. [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jan/27/rare-minerals-global-renewables-industry]Terbium, yttrium, dysprosium, europium and neodymium[/url]. [url=http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5559]This[/url] is also quite interesting.[/quote] You're assuming x = y, when there is a lot more to the situation than that. For one, prices are always going to rise over time because of inflation. If inflation in US currency is 3% for a year, all else equal, prices of all goods will rise 3%. Apply this over a decade of time, say 2000 to 2010 as an example period, and a dollar is worth 26.6% less over that time. That is a real world number. If Copper prices rise 26.6% over that time from 2000 to 2010 - in reality, in real dollar terms, they have risen 0%. This is completely ignoring how currencies rise and fall in relation to each other, suppliers and futures owners holding product off the market, and demand outstripping short term supply - factories need time to come online. In short, think about it a bit more. [Edited on 05.14.2012 11:40 AM PDT]
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    S 24993 JAMES

    S 24993 JAMES

    5/14/2012 7:37:25 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AJF1177 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H0FFman J [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Baph117 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H0FFman J Then what is it? Claiming that the world has enough resources to support an even bigger population is ludicrous, fossil fuels are running out, prices of [url=http://www.commodityblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/copperpirce.jpg]minerals[/url] are soaring, rain-forests that filter CO2 are now being demolished to make room for soy plantages and residents, pollution is aggravating and[url=http://arabic.wunderground.com/health/pollutiondeaths.jpg] fine dust particles are accumulation in dense urban areas.[/url] [url=http://www1.american.edu/ted/ice/congo-coltan.htm]Minerals are getting so scarce that there are even wars being fought over.[/url] And don't get me started on how the US is waisting their helium reserves. Even if we invest in technology, we wouldn't be able to keep up with the current population growth. Do you even know how long it takes to design, test, cultivate and spread a genetically altered crop? The only thing I can envision is a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusian_catastrophe]Malthusian catastrope[/url]. Unless space exploration becomes something realizable. [/quote] Why are you citing spot prices of copper as proof of a diminished world capacity? There is 2 billion tons of reserves - demand is only 15 million a year. And this is ignoring an obvious point: copper is a very available resource and is easily recycled. Recycling rates are over 75%.[/quote] Then why has the copper price tripled between 04 and 06? [url=http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/14/metals-copper-theft-idUSN1E76D1W620110714]It has become so expensive that copper thievery has increased substantially. [/url] I could also give examples of other minerals if you'd like. [url=http://blog.rogermontgomery.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/30-Year-iron-ore-price-chart-to-March-2011.png]Iron ore[/url], [url=http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/wp-content/gallery/charts/10-year-gold-price-chart-jul-09.jpg]Gold[/url], [url=http://www.ajediam.com/images/site/Historical_diamond_prices_1960_2010_Source_Ajediam.jpg]diamond[/url]. [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jan/27/rare-minerals-global-renewables-industry]Terbium, yttrium, dysprosium, europium and neodymium[/url]. [url=http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5559]This[/url] also quite interesting.[/quote]I remember reading somewhere that after a star went super nova it formed a huge diamond so space solves the diamond part.[/quote]I'm for space travel, but I'm fairly sure that's false. As far as I know they just fuse elements heavier than iron during supernova. Diamond is made from carbon, which is lighter.
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    SubtleSpartan

    SubtleSpartan

    5/14/2012 7:34:21 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ankrow Agreed OP. Until we have the technology to quickly travel to other worlds and set up colonies it isn't worth it.[/quote] But we won't develop that technology unless we are trying. Earth can only sustain a species such as humanity for so long, we need room to expand because we'll never regulate ourselves enough to thrive on a single planet.
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    Nescio

    Nescio

    5/14/2012 7:32:10 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SilentSnoFall Addressing the diamond part, there is alot more than you think. Those who market diamonds keep quite alot off market so that the ones on market are inflated to unrealistic prices, in truth they have always been high. [/quote] I've done some research and it seems that you're right, but does this also apply [url=http://www.diamondsourceva.com/Education/images/rough-diamond-prices.jpg]to industrial diamonds[/url]? [quote]And most wars aren't fought over these minerals because of scarcity, most are fought over possesion.[/quote] If those resources were of ample quantities, there wouldn't be a need for wars since everyone could start their own mine and thus reduce the price of cobalt. Funding an army seems more expensive that starting your own mine somewhere politically stable. [quote]And to address the gold, there was never that much to begin with. Since gold was the standard for a countries' money for centuries it has been recorded whenever mined for a long time. That being said, all recorded mined gold can fit into a single brick with the dimensions of 20m cubed. There was never that much to begin with. Also these records do not account for potential Mayan gold and I'm not sure if it counts Egyptian.[/quote] Indeed and since gold has a lot of practical usages (like in electronics), it's going to be a long term problem. People are already using less efficient but cheaper alternatives.
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    AJF1177

    AJF1177

    5/14/2012 6:18:19 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H0FFman J [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Baph117 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H0FFman J Then what is it? Claiming that the world has enough resources to support an even bigger population is ludicrous, fossil fuels are running out, prices of [url=http://www.commodityblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/copperpirce.jpg]minerals[/url] are soaring, rain-forests that filter CO2 are now being demolished to make room for soy plantages and residents, pollution is aggravating and[url=http://arabic.wunderground.com/health/pollutiondeaths.jpg] fine dust particles are accumulation in dense urban areas.[/url] [url=http://www1.american.edu/ted/ice/congo-coltan.htm]Minerals are getting so scarce that there are even wars being fought over.[/url] And don't get me started on how the US is waisting their helium reserves. Even if we invest in technology, we wouldn't be able to keep up with the current population growth. Do you even know how long it takes to design, test, cultivate and spread a genetically altered crop? The only thing I can envision is a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusian_catastrophe]Malthusian catastrope[/url]. Unless space exploration becomes something realizable. [/quote] Why are you citing spot prices of copper as proof of a diminished world capacity? There is 2 billion tons of reserves - demand is only 15 million a year. And this is ignoring an obvious point: copper is a very available resource and is easily recycled. Recycling rates are over 75%.[/quote] Then why has the copper price tripled between 04 and 06? [url=http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/14/metals-copper-theft-idUSN1E76D1W620110714]It has become so expensive that copper thievery has increased substantially. [/url] I could also give examples of other minerals if you'd like. [url=http://blog.rogermontgomery.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/30-Year-iron-ore-price-chart-to-March-2011.png]Iron ore[/url], [url=http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/wp-content/gallery/charts/10-year-gold-price-chart-jul-09.jpg]Gold[/url], [url=http://www.ajediam.com/images/site/Historical_diamond_prices_1960_2010_Source_Ajediam.jpg]diamond[/url]. [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jan/27/rare-minerals-global-renewables-industry]Terbium, yttrium, dysprosium, europium and neodymium[/url]. [url=http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5559]This[/url] also quite interesting.[/quote]I remember reading somewhere that after a star went super nova it formed a huge diamond so space solves the diamond part.
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    Love Sosa
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    SilentSnoFall

    SilentSnoFall

    5/14/2012 5:45:57 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H0FFman J [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Baph117 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H0FFman J Then what is it? Claiming that the world has enough resources to support an even bigger population is ludicrous, fossil fuels are running out, prices of [url=http://www.commodityblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/copperpirce.jpg]minerals[/url] are soaring, rain-forests that filter CO2 are now being demolished to make room for soy plantages and residents, pollution is aggravating and[url=http://arabic.wunderground.com/health/pollutiondeaths.jpg] fine dust particles are accumulation in dense urban areas.[/url] [url=http://www1.american.edu/ted/ice/congo-coltan.htm]Minerals are getting so scarce that there are even wars being fought over.[/url] And don't get me started on how the US is waisting their helium reserves. Even if we invest in technology, we wouldn't be able to keep up with the current population growth. Do you even know how long it takes to design, test, cultivate and spread a genetically altered crop? The only thing I can envision is a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusian_catastrophe]Malthusian catastrope[/url]. Unless space exploration becomes something realizable. [/quote] Why are you citing spot prices of copper as proof of a diminished world capacity? There is 2 billion tons of reserves - demand is only 15 million a year. And this is ignoring an obvious point: copper is a very available resource and is easily recycled. Recycling rates are over 75%.[/quote] Then why has the copper price tripled between 04 and 06? [url=http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/14/metals-copper-theft-idUSN1E76D1W620110714]It has become so expensive that copper thievery has increased substantially. [/url] I could also give examples of other minerals if you'd like. [url=http://blog.rogermontgomery.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/30-Year-iron-ore-price-chart-to-March-2011.png]Iron ore[/url], [url=http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/wp-content/gallery/charts/10-year-gold-price-chart-jul-09.jpg]Gold[/url], [url=http://www.ajediam.com/images/site/Historical_diamond_prices_1960_2010_Source_Ajediam.jpg]diamond[/url]. [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jan/27/rare-minerals-global-renewables-industry]Terbium, yttrium, dysprosium, europium and neodymium[/url]. [url=http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5559]This[/url] also quite interesting.[/quote] Addressing the diamond part, there is alot more than you think. Those who market diamonds keep quite alot off market so that the ones on market are inflated to unrealistic prices, in truth they have always been high. And most wars aren't fought over these minerals because of scarcity, most are fought over possesion. And to address the gold, there was never that much to begin with. Since gold was the standard for a countries' money for centuries it has been recorded whenever mined for a long time. That being said, all recorded mined gold can fit into a single brick with the dimensions of 20m cubed. There was never that much to begin with. Also these records do not account for potential Mayan gold and I'm not sure if it counts Egyptian.
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    Xanarxses

    Xanarxses

    5/14/2012 5:41:31 PM Permalink
    I agree entirely. There's so many -blam!- problems in this world. It's like they gave up: "oh... duuuudes.... this place is -blam!-"
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    AcedannyK

    AcedannyK

    5/14/2012 5:40:58 PM Permalink
    I wouldn't say that. Granted, big problems exist for humanity to tackle but Space holds solutions to many of them.
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    SilentSnoFall

    SilentSnoFall

    5/14/2012 5:39:49 PM Permalink
    You can't solve overpopulation unless you find a new place to put people or kill em, energy crisis is there for a reason, and cancer has a cure but is probably being kept off the market.
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