obviously halo

Precursors, forruners, flood, pre devolution humans, covenant... ME has no chance

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Kitten2012 [quote]You under estimate the might of the Covenant and its' fleets and over estimate the ability of the Reaper indoctrination.[/quote] In what way? Indoctrination is a very potent and deadly threat to any organic or synthetic life form that can make a willing slave just a few months, or a genetically modified super soldier in just days or weeks. What makes you think the Covenant would be anymore able to defend against it than the races of the Mass Effect universe? Covenant ships are formidable, taking on average three UNSC vessels to defeat one of an equal class. However, A Turian Dreadnought is arguably more powerful- if not equal to a UNSC ship and it takes three of them to have a 50% chance of defeating a Reaper. At the very least a Reaper is equal to a Covenant ship, and in my opinion it would take 2-4 Covenant ships to bring down a single Reaper ship of similar class. [quote]Wouldn't all of the ME universe include every past civilisation, and not just the Protheans? That's easily 10,000 galactic civilisations that the Reapers harvested, fighting against the Haloverse. That's quite the advantage.[/quote] It is indeed quite an advantage, Reapers have been around for at least a billion years with the oldest known Reaper being Leviathan of Dis. Extinction happen every 50,000 years, so thats at least 20,000 cycles- and chances are there would have been more before Leviathan. The topic gets into pretty vague territory though, where the Prothians the norm or the exception in strength? How do we compare these races? What of Star-child's race? They created the Reapers, and are thus more powerful than the Reapers themselves- perhaps they actually are Reapers. Regardless, Mass Effect has space magic... What about the Forerunners? Had the Dreadnought the Prophet used been standard issue in the Forerunner navy, or had it been the absolute pinnacle of their design ability that had been a significant investment?[/quote] I doubt you will be able to indoctrinate the Flood. To do that, you would need to approach a Gravemind, and if I am correct, indoctrination involves using fields of harmonic radiation or something like that. The Gravemind would not be affected. The Flood Super Cell is what he is comprised of. No brain. He is the most intelligent creature in the modern day Halo verse. I would also like to point out that I believe you cannot indoctrinate an AI, those fields would not affect hard-drives. Also, what about reverse indoctrination, from Halo? The Gravemind was able to convince a Contender Class AI to turn against the Forerunners. He could probably do the same, much quicker to any sentient or robotic races such as the Geth. Also, regardless of what happens, the Halo rings rule all. End of Story, end of argument, they will destroy everything. /Thread.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MyNameIsCharlie After considerable thought, I feel that the winner would be... ... ...wait for it ... WWII Russia.[/quote] Lol. Wrong. WW23 Russia > WW2 Russia, obviously. Sauces? xbox.com.

After considerable thought, I feel that the winner would be... ... ...wait for it ... WWII Russia.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SC Matt Klassen [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] nuchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ins3ktz [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ParagonRenegade The catalyst can bull-blam!- everyone to death[/quote] Cortana would tell the kid it's past his bedtime or something. I can't believe you guys are arguing this. Considering the ONLY way for ALL the Forerunners to defeat ONE Precursor was by waiting it out, I'm pretty confident the Precursors at their prime would not be unmatched, even against millions of Reapers and all the other species in ME. And why the bloody hell did OP decide to put the Rings into this equation? AT THE FLICK OF A SWITCH, THE HALO UNIVERSE WOULD WIN.[/quote] If the rings were activated that would just leave the Geth and the sentinels to duke it out.[/quote] And what about the probable billions of Forerunner Ancilla-piloted warships?[/quote] Well if the OP says the ENTIRE mass effect universe, that means EVERY past civilizations that were killed by the reapers. And apparently every species had their version of the Geth. soooo yeah.[/quote] ... And considering the Reapers defeated them too, the Forerunner Ancillas would still win.[/quote] The reapers blind side their targets. They shut down the relay system and take each system one by one. This is totally different from a head on attack. And besides, the reapers + every species that has existed for millions of years+ every rogue robot army that has existed for millions of years + Garrus= Unstoppable. The battle would be the most epic thing ever. That would literally be billions of ships versus billions of ships. Someone make this. [Edited on 05.08.2012 8:34 PM PDT]

As much as I love ME, I just think the Halo universe is too rich. And with the Forerunners and the Precursors, Halo definitely wins here.

[quote]Or the Timeless One was simply a "Vanguard" type of Flood- a super enhanced Gravemind/Precursor to watch over this galaxy's tests while the other Precursors ran around the other galaxies.[/quote] Anything is possible, we simply do not know. This is however, one of the reasons why i disapprove of the idea of including every nook and cranny of both universes, too much is unknown. He could have been the ones who created Mass Effect's Godchild for all we know. [quote]... And considering the Reapers defeated them too, the Forerunner Ancillas would still win.[/quote] The Reapers would win in their universe due to the overwhelming advantage they set themselves up to have, although their overwhelming conventional war efforts would easily be enough to achieve victory. I think its arguable as to who would win, the Precursors and Star People should be on par with each other, and although technologically inferior to the forerunners and the Human Empire, the Reapers should give them quite a headache. The UNSC are decently outmatched by the Citadel races, but the Covenant would hold a decisive advantage over them in turn. In the end though it would boil down to what potency would Reaper indoctrination have over the Haloverse. Can Graveminds be indoctrinated? If so, Halo would likely be fighting a losing battle. If not, Mass Effect stands little chance against the Forerunner unless the Star People can pull somthing out of their ass. The wildcard of the bunch are the non-reaper races, together their power would be interesting to see, numbers beyond counting with trillions of naval assets are nothing to ignore. [Edited on 05.08.2012 8:30 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] nuchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SC Matt Klassen [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] nuchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ins3ktz [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ParagonRenegade The catalyst can bull-blam!- everyone to death[/quote] Cortana would tell the kid it's past his bedtime or something. I can't believe you guys are arguing this. Considering the ONLY way for ALL the Forerunners to defeat ONE Precursor was by waiting it out, I'm pretty confident the Precursors at their prime would not be unmatched, even against millions of Reapers and all the other species in ME. And why the bloody hell did OP decide to put the Rings into this equation? AT THE FLICK OF A SWITCH, THE HALO UNIVERSE WOULD WIN.[/quote] If the rings were activated that would just leave the Geth and the sentinels to duke it out.[/quote] And what about the probable billions of Forerunner Ancilla-piloted warships?[/quote] Well if the OP says the ENTIRE mass effect universe, that means EVERY past civilizations that were killed by the reapers. And apparently every species had their version of the Geth. soooo yeah.[/quote] ... And considering the Reapers defeated them too, the Forerunner Ancillas would still win.

Mass Effect.

Commander shepherd and master chief team up and kill everything /thread.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Kitten2012 [quote]He mistakens each Flood form as a separate entity when the Gravemind ARE the Flood. "A singular Microorganism," as the Forerunners called them. There is no individuality, each form is a part of the greater whole, like a limb. All is part of the Gravemind. As well, he mistakes the Gravemind as a separate entity from the Precursors. Gravemind's are Precursors; the Timeless One for example was both GM and Precursor. Even if a Gravemind is "killed" (which is border line impossible) then the "next one" has all of the memories of the previous. This makes the Gravemind more of a non corporeal entity if it can survive death.[/quote] I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that i'm mistaking anything, the absence of elaboration does not equal being unaware. However you are mistaken at a few points, the Precursors are explicitly stated to have created the Flood to "test" their Human and Precursor creations, looking for a successor to "Godhood". Humanity had defeated the Flood and drove them from the Galaxy (or did they? theories exist)at the expense of their species being obliterated by the Forerunner shortly after. The forerunner intern wages war upon the Precursors, and somehow defeated them and drove them from the Milky Way, but not before they unleashed the Flood upon them as a final act of defiance. After 300 years the Flood defeated the Forerunners which resulted in the firring of the Halos. The Flood where not Precursors, they where created by the precursors (as all life had been). The theory that they are advanced Gravemind comes from Cryptum which has some serious contradictions with the established lore, but more importantly deals with the timeless one, who shares many characteristics of a Precursor and a Gravemind. Why people assume this means that precursors and Flood are one in the same, I don't know as any numerous things could have caused this to be. A precursor may have been infected, a bioweapon, an experiment, yes the possibility of Precursors mutating themselves as a whole into the Flood exists, but in doing so contradicts a trove of Lore about not only the precursors themselves, but also the history of the Haloverse.[/quote] Or the Timeless One was simply a "Vanguard" type of Flood- a super enhanced Gravemind/Precursor to watch over this galaxy's tests while the other Precursors ran around the other galaxies.

[quote]He mistakens each Flood form as a separate entity when the Gravemind ARE the Flood. "A singular Microorganism," as the Forerunners called them. There is no individuality, each form is a part of the greater whole, like a limb. All is part of the Gravemind. As well, he mistakes the Gravemind as a separate entity from the Precursors. Gravemind's are Precursors; the Timeless One for example was both GM and Precursor. Even if a Gravemind is "killed" (which is border line impossible) then the "next one" has all of the memories of the previous. This makes the Gravemind more of a non corporeal entity if it can survive death.[/quote] I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that i'm mistaking anything, the absence of elaboration does not equal being unaware. However you are mistaken at a few points, the Precursors are explicitly stated to have created the Flood to "test" their Human and Precursor creations, looking for a successor to "Godhood". Humanity had defeated the Flood and drove them from the Galaxy (or did they? theories exist)at the expense of their species being obliterated by the Forerunner shortly after. The forerunner intern wages war upon the Precursors, and somehow defeated them and drove them from the Milky Way, but not before they unleashed the Flood upon them as a final act of defiance. After 300 years the Flood defeated the Forerunners which resulted in the firring of the Halos. The Flood where not Precursors, they where created by the precursors (as all life had been). The theory that they are advanced Gravemind comes from Cryptum which has some serious contradictions with the established lore, but more importantly deals with the timeless one, who shares many characteristics of a Precursor and a Gravemind. Why people assume this means that precursors and Flood are one in the same, I don't know as any numerous things could have caused this to be. A precursor may have been infected, a bioweapon, an experiment, yes the possibility of Precursors mutating themselves as a whole into the Flood exists, but in doing so contradicts a trove of Lore about not only the precursors themselves, but also the history of the Haloverse. @And I'm Here Too I doubt that, while its true all organic life would be doomed, it still leaves artificial life such as sentinels, Reapers, Geth, and their counterparts. The flood would also still be present, but with no food they face a desperate struggle for victory- but will ultimately die out completely regaurdless of the outcome. An odd twist would have the Reapers trying to activate the Halo arrays as a possible means to overcome the Forerunner and company. However, I have a hard time believing the Forerunner would simply allow this to happen, likely having artificual as well as physical defences present. [Edited on 05.08.2012 8:18 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SC Matt Klassen [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] nuchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ins3ktz [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ParagonRenegade The catalyst can bull-blam!- everyone to death[/quote] Cortana would tell the kid it's past his bedtime or something. I can't believe you guys are arguing this. Considering the ONLY way for ALL the Forerunners to defeat ONE Precursor was by waiting it out, I'm pretty confident the Precursors at their prime would not be unmatched, even against millions of Reapers and all the other species in ME. And why the bloody hell did OP decide to put the Rings into this equation? AT THE FLICK OF A SWITCH, THE HALO UNIVERSE WOULD WIN.[/quote] If the rings were activated that would just leave the Geth and the sentinels to duke it out.[/quote] And what about the probable billions of Forerunner Ancilla-piloted warships?[/quote] If the Halos activate both universes technically lose.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SC Matt Klassen [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] nuchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ins3ktz [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ParagonRenegade The catalyst can bull-blam!- everyone to death[/quote] Cortana would tell the kid it's past his bedtime or something. I can't believe you guys are arguing this. Considering the ONLY way for ALL the Forerunners to defeat ONE Precursor was by waiting it out, I'm pretty confident the Precursors at their prime would not be unmatched, even against millions of Reapers and all the other species in ME. And why the bloody hell did OP decide to put the Rings into this equation? AT THE FLICK OF A SWITCH, THE HALO UNIVERSE WOULD WIN.[/quote] If the rings were activated that would just leave the Geth and the sentinels to duke it out.[/quote] And what about the probable billions of Forerunner Ancilla-piloted warships?[/quote] Well if the OP says the ENTIRE mass effect universe, that means EVERY past civilizations that were killed by the reapers. And apparently every species had their version of the Geth. soooo yeah.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Kitten2012 [quote]I don't think you quite understand the Haloverse. For one, Mass Effect simply does not have anything they can touch the Forerunners or Precursors with. And that isn't my opinion, that's simply a fact. Precursor tech can be damaged only by Precursor science, and the Foreunners shrug off global extinction event impacts on a standard basis. They can tear the surface of a planet off using mechs and small craft--which they did in Cryptum. I can scarcely imagine what their ships can do. Cruisers alone have been calculated to have weaponry the yield of which to be around several hundred terratons. Weapons no Reaper, not even Harbinger, would be able to handle even a fraction of. They had millions of planets, incomprehensible technology and even they knew they were neanderthals next to the Precursors. And the Flood. It is highly doubtful a Gravemind can be indoctrinated. It is barely effective against regular races, but a Gravemind exists on a completely unknowable cognitive plane; so advanced mentally they are they are no longer classified as sentient, but transsentient. Sorry, ME simply never stood a chance.[/quote] Please read my prior posts before jumping to conclusions like this. I never made any metion of Reapers standing much of a chance in conventional combat against the Forerunners, however i also state that such comparisons are silly as they rely on extremely vague powers that decide the outcome of the war instead of focusing on forces that are are familiar. Otherwise we would have over a billion Reaper ships, and trillions of organic/synthetic ships, along with more manpower than there are stars in the sky against insanely powerful 100km long ships capable of collapsing stars. These arguments on both sides are incredibly unreliable and why I suggested comparing Harvest -1 day to Eden Prime -1 day to each other. To have it otherwise would be an issue of speculation rather than based on what we have a much better understanding of. As for Gravemind i belive you are mistaken. If two sets of Legos exists, one set having five pieces and the other a million they will build two very different structures- however the pieces and method of construction are still the same. Gravemind's arise from the collection of genetic material, similarly to how Reapers are created. This material is what form organic bodies, Gravemind's simply reconfigure said bodies into a being of higher cognitive awareness. However, all the pieces required for consciousness are still very much present and thus equally vulnerable to indoctrination. The process is no different than a comparison to a Human brain and the brain of a hamster. Both are on a completely different plane of awareness, yet are both made of the same material and behaves identically. It would be no more a challenge to indoctrinate a Gravemind than it would be a hamster, especualy given that the Flood are already out for Forunner blood. The only defence against indoctrination is not to be self aware and thus susceptible to the process.[/quote] I was answering the OP's question regarding the entirety of both universes. Fleet sizes and the like are irrelevant when your technology is invincible. As for the Mind: you misinterpret what a Gravemind is. It is a Precursor evolved to a non-corporeal status. Difficult to explain, but each successive Mind has the exact same memories of all other Minds, as if it was a single super being. As if killing every Flood in the galaxy doesn't put a damper on the Gravemind's knowledge. When a Mind is "reborn" so to speak, it acts as if it never died. Its cognitive ability far surpasses human comprehension. It's not a matter of intelligence, but a matter of universal awareness. Precursors were at a level where they and the universe itself (in its own right a living, breathing entity) were linked in some way. A scientific definition of God, to put it shortly. No time to fully explain, rest assured the Precursors are something else entirely, not just your average consciousness. Transsentient holds a lot of meaning.

I think the Xeelee vs. Halo would be a much more balenced fight than this. Honestly, why are people still debating over this?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] nuchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ins3ktz [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ParagonRenegade The catalyst can bull-blam!- everyone to death[/quote] Cortana would tell the kid it's past his bedtime or something. I can't believe you guys are arguing this. Considering the ONLY way for ALL the Forerunners to defeat ONE Precursor was by waiting it out, I'm pretty confident the Precursors at their prime would not be unmatched, even against millions of Reapers and all the other species in ME. And why the bloody hell did OP decide to put the Rings into this equation? AT THE FLICK OF A SWITCH, THE HALO UNIVERSE WOULD WIN.[/quote] If the rings were activated that would just leave the Geth and the sentinels to duke it out.[/quote] And what about the probable billions of Forerunner Ancilla-piloted warships?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ins3ktz [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ParagonRenegade The catalyst can bull-blam!- everyone to death[/quote] Cortana would tell the kid it's past his bedtime or something. I can't believe you guys are arguing this. Considering the ONLY way for ALL the Forerunners to defeat ONE Precursor was by waiting it out, I'm pretty confident the Precursors at their prime would not be unmatched, even against millions of Reapers and all the other species in ME. And why the bloody hell did OP decide to put the Rings into this equation? AT THE FLICK OF A SWITCH, THE HALO UNIVERSE WOULD WIN.[/quote] If the rings were activated that would just leave the Geth and the sentinels to duke it out.

[quote]I don't think you quite understand the Haloverse. For one, Mass Effect simply does not have anything they can touch the Forerunners or Precursors with. And that isn't my opinion, that's simply a fact. Precursor tech can be damaged only by Precursor science, and the Foreunners shrug off global extinction event impacts on a standard basis. They can tear the surface of a planet off using mechs and small craft--which they did in Cryptum. I can scarcely imagine what their ships can do. Cruisers alone have been calculated to have weaponry the yield of which to be around several hundred tertons. Weapons no Reaper, not even Harbinger, would be able to handle even a fraction of. They had millions of planets, incomprehensible technology and even they knew they were neanderthals next to the Precursors. And the Flood. It is highly doubtful a Gravemind can be indoctrinated. It is barely effective against regular races, but a Gravemind exists on a completely unknowable cognitive plane; so advanced mentally they are they are no longer classified as sentient, but transcendent. Sorry, ME simply never stood a chance.[/quote] Please read my prior posts before jumping to conclusions like this. I never made any metion of Reapers standing much of a chance in conventional combat against the Forerunners, however i also state that such comparisons are silly as they rely on extremely vague powers that decide the outcome of the war instead of focusing on forces that are are familiar. Otherwise we would have over a billion Reaper ships, and trillions of organic/synthetic ships, along with more manpower than there are stars in the sky against insanely powerful 100km long ships capable of collapsing stars. These arguments on both sides are incredibly unreliable and why I suggested comparing Harvest -1 day to Eden Prime -1 day to each other. To have it otherwise would be an issue of speculation rather than based on what we have a much better understanding of. As for Gravemind i belive you are mistaken. If two sets of Legos exists, one set having five pieces and the other a million they will build two very different structures- however the pieces and method of construction are still the same. Gravemind's arise from the collection of genetic material, similarly to how Reapers are created. This material is what form organic bodies, Gravemind's simply reconfigure said bodies into a being of higher cognitive awareness. However, all the pieces required for consciousness are still very much present and thus equally vulnerable to indoctrination. The process is no different than a comparison to a Human brain and the brain of a hamster. Both are on a completely different plane of awareness, yet are both made of the same material and behaves identically. It would be no more a challenge to indoctrinate a Gravemind than it would be a hamster, especially given that the Flood are already out for Forerunner blood. The only defence against indoctrination is not to be self aware and thus susceptible to the process. [Edited on 05.08.2012 8:13 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ins3ktz [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Kitten2012 [quote]What you're thinking is the Gravemind CAN be indoctrinated. If Liara's mother could resist indoctrination for a time, then how would something with an undoubtably higher amount of sophistication react? And what would happen if the Flood started infecting Reaper troops? Considering you need to indoctrinate the Gravemind itself to gain control over the Flood (as the Combat forms, Pure forms, etc are not intelligent).[/quote] Benezia had no more resistance than anyone else given the limited time she spent abroad Sovereign who in turn wanted her to stay useful, similarly to how he treated Saren. It is unlikely Reaper indoctrination would have any significant effect for at least 6 months, beyond of course husk forms that are created in days. Grave Minds are comprised of so many bodies that it becomes self-aware, similarly how cells come together to form a self-aware entity. They gradually grow until it can, in theory, have telepathic abilities that span at least a Galaxy. This seems to me an enhanced version of biotics, a (helpful) mutation in an organism. A comparable being in ME being the Thorian whose mental abilities are similar to a Grave Mind, able to control and infect others. I can't see any cannon-evidence (Shep can force TIM and Saren to come to their senses if her ability is high enough) that would make a Grave Mind any more resistant to indoctrination than a small village would be. The process of Grave Mind births are comparable to how cells from to create a body. Regardless of how complex that body and by extension mind would be, it is still made of the same basic materials which the Reaper exploits, similar to how the first computer and the newest would both be susceptible to an electrical outage. At best the process would take longer, but I think that's only throwing a mercy line to Grave Minds that probably wouldn't be there. It's unlikely a non-self-aware organism would be susceptible to Reaper mind control. As the Flood control their host via nervous systems their physical infection combat forms would likely win over Reaper mental indoctrination provided they do not advance beyond a proto-Grave Mind status of being. However, as Grave Minds control the non-self-aware Flood would It be possible to say Reapers would eventually gain control of the Flood? The Flood may just be a liability for Halo forces, but it depends how far back it goes. If the Precursors created the Flood, then wouldn't it be arguable that they could and would modify them to prevent their ability to reach a self-aware state? Possibly controlling them via AI instead, but that's another issue- whose AI is better, Reaper or Ancient Halo? According the Forerunner classification, the Reapers are at the least tier1 when it comes to AI, and quite possibly beyond as they also exhibit characteristics of tier 0 technology as seen with the Collectors and Keepers. [/quote] Perhaps you're right about the Gravemind, but ME still wouldn't stand a chance against ancient Halo. And Reapers are definitely not on Tier 0. Their biological "adjustments" took countless years, and were on things that couldn't fight back. Also, Neural Physics. Precursor AI was definitely better, given the fact they could basically control inanimate objects using thought.[/quote] He mistakens each Flood form as a seperate entity when the Graveminds ARE the Flood. "A singular Macroorganism," as the Forerunners called them. There is no individuality, each form is a part of the greater whole, like a limb. All is part of the Gravemind. As well, he mistakens the Graveminds as a seperate entity from the Precursors. Graveminds are Precursors; the Timeless One for example was both GM and Precursor. Even if a Gravemind is "killed" (which is border line impossible) then the "next one" has all of the memories of the previous. This makes the Gravemind more of a noncorporeal entity if it can survive death. [Edited on 05.08.2012 7:19 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Kitten2012 [quote]What you're thinking is the Gravemind CAN be indoctrinated. If Liara's mother could resist indoctrination for a time, then how would something with an undoubtably higher amount of sophistication react? And what would happen if the Flood started infecting Reaper troops? Considering you need to indoctrinate the Gravemind itself to gain control over the Flood (as the Combat forms, Pure forms, etc are not intelligent).[/quote] Benezia had no more resistance than anyone else given the limited time she spent abroad Sovereign who in turn wanted her to stay useful, similarly to how he treated Saren. It is unlikely Reaper indoctrination would have any significant effect for at least 6 months, beyond of course husk forms that are created in days. Grave Minds are comprised of so many bodies that it becomes self-aware, similarly how cells come together to form a self-aware entity. They gradually grow until it can, in theory, have telepathic abilities that span at least a Galaxy. This seems to me an enhanced version of biotics, a (helpful) mutation in an organism. A comparable being in ME being the Thorian whose mental abilities are similar to a Grave Mind, able to control and infect others. I can't see any cannon-evidence (Shep can force TIM and Saren to come to their senses if her ability is high enough) that would make a Grave Mind any more resistant to indoctrination than a small village would be. The process of Grave Mind births are comparable to how cells from to create a body. Regardless of how complex that body and by extension mind would be, it is still made of the same basic materials which the Reaper exploits, similar to how the first computer and the newest would both be susceptible to an electrical outage. At best the process would take longer, but I think that's only throwing a mercy line to Grave Minds that probably wouldn't be there. It's unlikely a non-self-aware organism would be susceptible to Reaper mind control. As the Flood control their host via nervous systems their physical infection combat forms would likely win over Reaper mental indoctrination provided they do not advance beyond a proto-Grave Mind status of being. However, as Grave Minds control the non-self-aware Flood would It be possible to say Reapers would eventually gain control of the Flood? The Flood may just be a liability for Halo forces, but it depends how far back it goes. If the Precursors created the Flood, then wouldn't it be arguable that they could and would modify them to prevent their ability to reach a self-aware state? Possibly controlling them via AI instead, but that's another issue- whose AI is better, Reaper or Ancient Halo? According the Forerunner classification, the Reapers are at the least tier1 when it comes to AI, and quite possibly beyond as they also exhibit characteristics of tier 0 technology as seen with the Collectors and Keepers. [/quote] Perhaps you're right about the Gravemind, but ME still wouldn't stand a chance against ancient Halo. And Reapers are definitely not on Tier 0. Their biological "adjustments" took countless years, and were on things that couldn't fight back. Also, Neural Physics. Precursor AI was definitely better, given the fact they could basically control inanimate objects using thought. [Edited on 05.08.2012 7:08 PM PDT]

[quote]What you're thinking is the Gravemind CAN be indoctrinated. If Liara's mother could resist indoctrination for a time, then how would something with an undoubtably higher amount of sophistication react? And what would happen if the Flood started infecting Reaper troops? Considering you need to indoctrinate the Gravemind itself to gain control over the Flood (as the Combat forms, Pure forms, etc are not intelligent).[/quote] Benezia had no more resistance than anyone else given the limited time she spent abroad Sovereign who in turn wanted her to stay useful, similarly to how he treated Saren. It is unlikely Reaper indoctrination would have any significant effect for at least 6 months, beyond of course husk forms that are created in days. Grave Minds are comprised of so many bodies that it becomes self-aware, similarly how cells come together to form a self-aware entity. They gradually grow until it can, in theory, have telepathic abilities that span at least a Galaxy. This seems to me an enhanced version of biotics, a (helpful) mutation in an organism. A comparable being in ME being the Thorian whose mental abilities are similar to a Grave Mind, able to control and infect others. I can't see any cannon-evidence (Shep can force TIM and Saren to come to their senses if her ability is high enough) that would make a Grave Mind any more resistant to indoctrination than a small village would be. The process of Grave Mind births are comparable to how cells from to create a body. Regardless of how complex that body and by extension mind would be, it is still made of the same basic materials which the Reaper exploits, similar to how the first computer and the newest would both be susceptible to an electrical outage. At best the process would take longer, but I think that's only throwing a mercy line to Grave Minds that probably wouldn't be there. It's unlikely a non-self-aware organism would be susceptible to Reaper mind control. As the Flood control their host via nervous systems their physical infection combat forms would likely win over Reaper mental indoctrination provided they do not advance beyond a proto-Grave Mind status of being. However, as Grave Minds control the non-self-aware Flood would It be possible to say Reapers would eventually gain control of the Flood? The Flood may just be a liability for Halo forces, but it depends how far back it goes. If the Precursors created the Flood, then wouldn't it be arguable that they could and would modify them to prevent their ability to reach a self-aware state? Possibly controlling them via AI instead, but that's another issue- whose AI is better, Reaper or Ancient Halo? According the Forerunner classification, the Reapers are at the least tier1 when it comes to AI, and quite possibly beyond as they also exhibit characteristics of tier 0 technology as seen with the Collectors and Keepers. [Edited on 05.08.2012 7:02 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DarkSunnyboy1 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OdorousLicense3 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Forgewolf Do you think the Forunners could beat the Reapers? I mean the Reapers exterminate all life in the Universe by doing it themselves.. while the Forunners could exterminate the universe by using rings.[/quote]Milky Way =/= Universe[/quote] Not really....[/quote]What?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OdorousLicense3 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Forgewolf Do you think the Forunners could beat the Reapers? I mean the Reapers exterminate all life in the Universe by doing it themselves.. while the Forunners could exterminate the universe by using rings.[/quote]Milky Way =/= Universe[/quote] Not really....

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Forgewolf Do you think the Forunners could beat the Reapers? I mean the Reapers exterminate all life in the Universe by doing it themselves.. while the Forunners could exterminate the universe by using rings.[/quote]Milky Way =/= Universe