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#feedback

Edited by BXR Lonestar: 1/8/2016 6:21:39 PM
39

Fix Light Progression now, and for the future. Here's how:

Yes, we MUST have this!

95

No, I like RNG based progression

14

I want pickles.

63

I have posted in other people's threads regarding my proposed solution to fix the ever-frustrating light progression system in TTK. A few people have either responded to my posts or pm'd me stating that I should make this its own topic. I have done this months ago, but I am not sure it got the attention necessary to actually get serious consideration from the Community Managers or the Dev's. Maybe now things have changed. We are all familiar with the problems of the current infusion system. Not only do we not get 1:1 infusion transfers, meaning if an item is 10 light higher than the item you are infusing it to, you do not get a +10 increase in light. This, compounded with the fact that we have double-layered RNG for several items, including Raid items and challenge items, and the absolute dearth of 320 items available, and you can understand why the light level system in TTK is a problem. Even IF you DO get a favorable 320 drop, unless you have several "stepping stone" items, that 320 item isn't worth to you what its light level indicates it should be worth. While there is some definite downside to the current infusion system, there is one aspect which is actually really good. People seem to really like the ability to take ANY set of armor and basically be able to make it reach the light cap. This was not true in prior DLC's. For all Y2 newbie players, you had to have raid gear or iron banner gear previously to hit the cap. All other gear would only get you within a level or two of the level cap. The trick here is how to fix the infusion system to keep what we like, but get rid of what we don't like. There have been several discussions on how to address, this. Those solutions include adjustments to the RNG, guaranteed light level drops for certain activities, or fixing exotic light levels at specific tiers. They all have their merits, but IMO, that is not the direction I would like the game to go. Even if they implemented those changes, the game would still suffer from several ailments. First, progression would still be dictated somewhat by RNG, because you still need a specific kind of item to drop at the appropriate light level in order for it to be useful to you. Secondly, the availability of 320 items in only a small amount of activities forces players into game modes which they would otherwise not play. Thirdly, people actually complain that this might reduce the grind too much! (I know it sounds ridiculous, but I have actually heard this argument). I believe the best overall solution to this is not to change or adjust the RNG or to make tiered drops (aka "smart loot" - which, btw, we allegedly already have). Rather, we need to change what it is we infuse our gear with to increase its light level. Enter motes of light. I propose that rather than infusing gear with other weapons or armor, that the system be changed to allow direct mote infusion to increase light level. Insert 1 mote into a single piece of gear to raise its light level +1. This system fits the lore of Destiny, it is very simple and intuitive, and it can be perpetuated endlessly so long as the Destiny game is still in existence. As I see it, this would be a major improvement in the following ways: 1. This ends RNG's ability to affect our light progression. Rather than relying on RNG to give us a favorable drop, we can use motes we earn to increase our light level. Motes are earned, at minimum, every time you level up post--level 40, so you are guaranteed a minimum baseline of progression. What this means to gamers is that we can pursue whatever activity we want, and so long as we are gaining experience, we can progress to the cap, and we can do so at a steady rate. This also respects the time we have invested in the game. 2. It instantly makes all past DLC's relevant again without having to increase difficulty level. Why? You can break down gear and then exchange the materials for motes of light at the Speaker. 3. It places greater value on a current commodity that is undervalued. Motes of light are overlooked because they really only do two things. You can instantly unlock all perks for a weapon, or you can use them to level up your faction. Not only will this infusion system start soaking up the excess motes that are out there, but people will actually be happy to get that 2-3 mote drop after a crucible match! 4. The current abundance of motes of light means people can level up several sets of gear to Max light level for different purposes. Even if they only really like one set of armor, they can take chances on leveling up weapons which they might not otherwise keep due to the difficulty of infusing it to a high light level. This creates more weapon diversity, as gamers will have less pressure to take "safe" weapons that they know are good or would be fun to use. While I am sure that some people would say that this would allow Y1 players to instantly hit the cap because we have 1000's of motes stored up, and the game would be too easy, to those people I would say this: "If you put 100's or 1000's of hours into this game, then you have earned those 1000's of motes, and you have earned the right to get a head start." For those who do not agree with that sentiment, I would propose this compromise: 1. Exotics will drop at 280 light. ALWAYS. This is so that Exotics will always remain highly sought after for the instant boost in light level they would initially provide. 2. Legendary items ALWAYS drop between 180-220 light, based on RNG. 3. Legendary items in the Nightfall always drop at 250. Period. This is so that getting legendary items in the Nightfall does not feel like you are losing. [b][EDIT] There has been several posts taking issue with these starting light levels. I wanted to edit this post to make it clear that I have made these suggested starting light levels for items based off of my current stock of motes of light (~3k worth) and the need to get much of the excess out of the system prior to the next installment of Destiny. It is important to keep in mind that [u]this was only a suggestion on how the system could work, and these starting light levels could be adjusted as the community sees fit,[/u] OR, it could even remain still subject to RNG. If you have an issue with the starting light levels, please make it clear where you think a fair starting point would be. But please do not let the argument of what light level items should drop at under this new system detract from the central issue, which is that RNG's influence on our light progression needs to be reduced or eliminated. [/b] The tiers in which exotics and legendaries can be adjusted to suit community desires and the Dev's concerns, but the basic principals of my system and argument still hold true. I think it would help bring back a LOT of the fun to the game, as players could just do whatever they wanted to do, rather than what they HAVE to do (or feel like they have to do). And your time spent playing this game will be adequately rewarded, even if you get NOTHING that tangibly helps increase your light level. A couple of other things worth mentioning: 1. We need to bring back elemental primaries. Almost everyone wants them and thinks it is a big mistake that they dropped these from the game. Rather than coming out with elemental primaries as rewards for specific activities like Trials or the Raid, just let people customize their favorite primary weapons with an elemental core. The solution is simple. Etheric Light + elemental core bought from the gunsmith for glimmer (I'd suggest 20k glimmer) + a kinetic damage weapon = your weapon with elemental burn. So simple. And it keeps the Prison of Elders relevant without adjusting difficulty! 2. People also complain about having to leave Y1 gear behind. Full disclosure, I LOVE my year 1 gear and I do not think Y2 gear can match it. So I would propose that inserting EL into any Y1 item will make it infusion-ready but will not change its current light level. This will allow players to level up Y1 gear with the same system, but they will have more grinding to do if they choose to use Y1 gear due to the lower starting light level. If you do not want to use your Y1 gear, you do not have to. And you are not harmed in any way because you still have the ability to choose Y2 gear. But if you DO want to use Y1 gear and put the effort into it, you can power it up to current light levels. This creates even more options for gamers. [b]The TL;DR version: [/b] [spoiler]Changing from weapon/armor infusion to direct mote of light infusion will benefit the game by allowing for a more linear progression model, it decouples light level progression from RNG, it will create greater gear diversity, and it will make all previous content relevant without having to put any work into adjusting their difficulty levels. Finally, it will allow players to pursue what they really want to pursue in this game, rather than feeling like they HAVE to do a specific activity, regardless of whether or not they enjoy it. Elemental Primaries and Return of Y1 gear for all! Options are fun! [/spoiler] Please respond whether you would support a shift to direct mote infusion over the current system. [Edit] Don't forget to like if you agree!
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#feedback

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  • Bump!

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  • Bump!!!

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  • I think it's a great idea. Notes of light might be too easy to get though in the system right now so maybe 10-25 notes of light to increase it a light level by a point. It would still allow bungie to keep their precious grind model but everyone, regardless of access to fireteams, could hit max light levels.

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  • TLDR

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  • Motes of light? No. Getting to 320 shouldn't be easy. The system is fine just as it is.

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    • nah, market is too full of motes and making the change would create a CRAZY economy imbalance etc. maybe just raise the infusion threshold, like instead of a 100% gain at 6-ish units, raise it to like, 9-ish instead, or make the loss diminutive multiplicative? diminishingly? additive? the smaller the gap during infusion, the more you get out of it.

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    • I posted this in a previous thread discussing the topic. [quote]I would like to see the following changes to the infusion system to make it more flexible and varied. 1.) Show the resulting light level of the infusion while deciding what gear to infuse. No screwing around with calculators and such. Hovering over the gear to be dismantled for infusion will show you what the final light level will be. Quality of life improvement. 2.) Rarity and upgrades should change the result of infusion. Currently legendary gear infuses at a rate of 80% and exotic gear at 66% regardless of the rarity or whether the gear has been partially/fully upgraded. For example: Proposed legendary infusion rates: Rare, 50% Fully upgraded rare, 60% Legendary, 70% Fully upgraded legendary, 80% Exotic, 90% Fully upgraded exotic, 100% And of course differing values for infusing exotic gear. One final change I think is appropriate would be to remove the requirement of Legendary Marks (LM) when infusing legendary gear with legendary gear and exotic shards when infusing an exotic with another exotic. The marks/exotic shards are being provided by the dismantled legendary/exotic gear. 3.) Rare quality gear should have the possibility of being upgraded slightly. Bring back the old style upgrade nodes of Y1 for rare quality gear. Example. Player acquires from patrol chest a rare auto rifle with 250 light. Player can level and upgrade the light level to 260 with motes, planetary, resources and glimmer.[/quote]

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    • I had a similar suggestion here: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/185243444/0/0 The problem with using Motes of Light is that people have a TON of them and Bungie wouldn't stand for it to be so easy to level everything up, then they'd just hugely nerf the amount of Motes of Light people can get, and I don't think anyone wants that because you can use Motes for several other things. That's why using my suggestion of the "Essence of Light" would be mutually beneficial.

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    • I want improvements to the current system...which indeed has certain problems. But I think the mote of light idea is not viable, nor the light level restrictions on drops. Personally I think the way to go is to add more varied 310 to 320 drops in a wider variety of activities as well as level relevant RNG drops.

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    • Edited by QuincyBlaze: 1/8/2016 6:06:52 PM
      [quote] 1. Exotics will drop at [b]280 light. ALWAYS.[/b] This is so that [b]Exotics will always remain highly sought after [/b]for the instant boost in light level they would initially provide. 2. Legendary items ALWAYS drop between [b]180-220 [/b]light, based on RNG. 3. Legendary items in the Nightfall always drop at [b]250[/b]. Period. [b]This is so that getting legendary items in the Nightfall does not feel like you are losing. [/b] [/quote] I'm with you all the way, except for this. What the hell? This compromise is a no go. This just does not make sense. People want exotics to be 310 or even 320, because they should be at max, giving you that real level boost and showcasing their power, as they have up until TTK. People get [b]290[/b] drops in the Nightfall and feel like they lost! 250 is just shitting in their mouths. Couple that with Legendaries at 180-220, the grind has been spread out, not alleviated, as Motes only increase [i]1[/i]. A full set of 220 gear you like will cut down to size anyone's 1000 Mote fortune, leaving them with, *gasp* [i]only one useful set[/i]. Especially because you have to factor in the Bungie-effect. [spoiler]Bungie-effect: For every good natured idea which would make gameplay fair and fun for players (i.e. Etheric Light, Reforge), there is a consequence instilled by Bungie that usually eclipses the benefit (i.e. Etheric Light drop rates, abundance of shite Reforge perks/removal of good perks). This consequence is always paired with another: that good thing [b]will not[/b] be fixed, only removed and ignored in the next installment, to be replaced by another boon/punishment combo.[/spoiler] In reality, if this is implemented by the current Bungie, before they fully understand the ramifications for how they've handled this game, Mote drops will be nerfed to the ground, and Infusion costs will be, not your 1:1, but likely 3:1. Of course, the ability to shortchange everyone and force them to grind to 320 with 220 Light Legendaries might be enough for them.

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      • I completing agree with this. And so what if it reduced the Grind. All us Year ones have spent the better part of a year Grinding our butts off just to have Bungie turn our work into confetti and sprinkle it in our faces. Im in the mood for something less grindy now from my Bungle games.

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      • Great post! Well done and very good points for improvement. However lets be honest the real reasoning behind why destiny has failed and will continue to fail are these reasons 1. The community and its pvp cry babies 2. Bungie's lack of effort to actually balance weapons and just nerf stuff to shut up the community for a few days. 3. Bungie's crayon eating sandbox engineers can grasp the idea of how pve/pvp should be separated. 4. RNG its always been a issue and will continue to be one until they address it. The game needs 80% of the RNGness to go away. Reward people for their efforts and time most have wasted half their lives on this shit game trying to land a weapon at a certain light/roll ect. 5. Last but more importantly lack of content, time released content because their lazy and its a way to make more money and keep people suckered into playing. TDB HoW TTK should have all been released at launch along with all the raids being end game content all raids would have dropped level 40 gear and max light. I could keep going but its not worth it I've only played once or twice in the past 4 months only because a friend begged me to play. Game used to be so fun to play and enjoyable in year one even the grinding in year one was fun. All the year one weapons was great and powerful now we have fukking pea shooters and non elemental raid primaries its just trash hopefully they scrap the game and start over for destiny 2 maybe they'll give us a full game with multiple raids ect but don't hold your breathe as it is Bungie

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        • Edited by shawnh1104: 1/8/2016 4:46:34 PM
          Or heres an idea... Fix the raid loot system Tired of getting moldering shards and antiquated runes. Maybe i would be 320 if i wasn't getting that garbage all the time. Hard raid 320 drops only. Normal raid 310 drops only Like how it use to be. You can keep the infusion system i like that. Fwc gear is awesome looking. Iron banner Drops 300 to 320 No 280, 290 drops Antiquated rune drops for cort of oryx 300 drops + and everyone gets drops not just person using rune Right now there is no point in court of oryx Exotic drops 310 if you're over 300 and 320 if your over 310

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          • Edited by Kujoklr25: 1/8/2016 5:45:59 PM
            All I'm saying is, where are the pickles? I like the idea but I doubt it will happen. I never subscribed to the whole artificially extended grind POV, but with how things look now it's become clear their goal is to delay progression to keep people playing.

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          • I like your idea. It's funny the levelling system was changed for ttk because Bungie claims the old system was too confusing. I never saw any posts saying their were problems with the old system. (Other than forever 29, which was addressed in following tdb dlc.) With this new system their are so many posts on how this new system is not working. I would not be surprised if destiny 2 has a new system for levelling our characters.

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            • Regardless of the comments some people have made to this thread, the poll makes it clear that virtually NOBODY playing this game enjoy's the RNG-based light progression system. [u][b]BUNGIE. COSMO. Are you listening?! [/b][/u]

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            • Or they should just drop gear a few lights over your current light. No matter what activity you are playing.

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              • Edited by Orrion: 1/8/2016 4:16:23 PM
                Way too harsh on the drop levels. Farming motes of light wouldn't be an improvement over the current system. The goal is to DECREASE the RNG and amount of grinding it takes to get more than a handful of stuff to max light. Your system as proposed would likely increase the grind and it would be even less fun than it is now - I wouldn't want to do the raid at all under your system. I'd just be out farming motes endlessly.

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                • I have 600 motes of light i will be max light level so no this idea is dumb

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                • Edited by II Stargazer x: 1/9/2016 2:16:32 AM
                  who the hell likes pickles :{ bump, i would play more if the game had this personally i would remove light altogether and have a level cap at 60 but get experience at this point with only completing end-game activities for characters, weapons would earn damage with experience earned via using them against enemies (pve and pvp) and armor would increase in experience as you take damage, that's what i think anyway

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                  • Bump. Good post. You have my support guardian. This will bring back the FUN to this game for sure. Something that will make you look forward every times you log in to Destiny.

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                  • I think the problem is the infusion. For example, if I infuse a 320 to a 310 armor it wouldn't hit 320 at all unless the armor you're trying to infuse with a 320 has to be at least at 315 or 316 to even hit 320. It's kind of annoying. It would just be better if we could just infuse the 320 into a 310 and have it bumped right up to 320. Then again I guess bungie wouldn't want us to reach max light that easily. I say just go back to year 1 leveling system. At least we were guaranteed to reach max level when we had all the armors.

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                  • Bump. Thanks to all who have responded so far!

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                  • Bump, good post!

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                  • Interesting ideas and I like it but still think that light level was at its best with etheric light

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                  • I have my own alternative to light progression if you want to take a gander. https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/185210009/0/0

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