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Edited by Mr.Cow: 12/12/2015 5:35:53 PM
78

Let's Talk About Snipers(Bungie Look Here)

Look this has been a BIG controversy even before shotguns got their BIG nerf. I believe these problems are a result on 2 big reasons. 1 being something the community at the most does not understand completely. They first originated in y1. Snipers in year one were very diverse and plentiful. Snipers for the most part have not changed at all since Dark Below(excluding final round). The snipers included: Efrideets Spear:25 LDR: [b]64[/b] Her Benevolence:40 Pacience and Time:[b]65[/b] Shadow o Veils:[b]69[/b] Prudence II:[b]74[/b] Predeth's Revenge:20 Ice Breaker:50 Queen Breakers Bow:[b]80[/b] Black Hammer:31 The Supremacy:[b]63[/b] Longbow:[b]68[/b] Now I want to compare these base aim assist stats to some of TTK's popular snipers 1000ys:[b]56[/b] ERR-4:[b]21[/b] DoY:69 Stillpiercer:[b]51[/b] Weyloran's March: 79 Tao: [b]39[/b] As you can see most of the TTK snipers have actually gotten WORSE than the y1 snipers. This doesn't even factor in that you could RE-ROLL your snipers perks so you could have the highest aim assist you wanted. Plus for TTK only one of these snipers are used because, if you do the quest, you get one right away. These statistics start to explain the 2 issue at hand. Aim Assist/Bullet Magnatism. That's were most people are miss lead. AA has NOTHING to do with bullet magnetism. AA is on snipers are measure on "how long can I keep my scope pointed at a persons head while moving the scope across the screen". This stile of playing is what few snipers actually use. The most stereotypical snipers sit in a sniper lane and aim at where the head "would be" in most scenarios. This kind of sniping has little to now help from aim assist because more than likely, they won't have to move their scope at a substantial amount to benefit from the perk/attribute. "Drag Scoping" is a kind of sniping style where I get my scope to around head level and then "drag" the scope to the opponents head when it pops out. Unless the user was using control freaks the scope is probably moving a lot faster than the user intends. This is where the user uses aim assist to his/her advantage. This kind of sniping requires the user to have a good timing on when they need to fire a shot. "Bullet Magnetism" is practically nowhere to be found on snipers. Any shot that looks like it is being "pulled" to the opponents head is caused by "lag" that comes from bad servers on bungie's side. That "lag" actually makes the hit box on a persons head extend behind the person. Say what you want, but IMO these threads about snipers being OP don't show the facts; and the facts are, statistically, snipers are very balanced weapons. [quote]Snipers actually require skill to use. The thing is people who use snipers NOW most likely have been using them at least since January. They have "adapted" to what ever situation that was the "meta". We have had practice since January and have had to deal with shotgunners that killed from extreme ranges. But I believe the biggest "problem" with snipers is the lack of diversity. In year one they weren't constantly being killed by the same sniper. In fact in year one there was: Her Benevolence, LDR, Shadow of Veils, Efrideets Spear, Prudence II and Black Hammer. That's 3 times as many snipers to choose from. So I believe if they add new snipers into the game, then it will help the heat on snipers.[/quote] Part of my earlier comment before getting statistics to back me up. Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/3w7o1g/on_snipers_being_overpowered_perception/ This is a Reddit post by Pwadigy that was brought up in a comment. Very nice post and touches on most of my points.

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  • *Cues music* Let's talk about snipes, baby! Let's talk about you and me. Let's talk about all the good things and the bad things, that may be. Let's talk about snipes! *does the Carlton* *cuts music* *ahem* OK, what we're you saying?

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  • Crucible is broken. Even worse than before. This by far is the worst meta I've seen and been here since day one. Dispute me all you want.

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    • Edited by Averaxis: 12/15/2015 3:23:54 AM
      {comment was deleted by author}

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    • Here's some stats to back up your OPINIONS... 25% of the kills in Trials last week we're from the 1000 yard stare. That's not even including other snipers. Ok it was a sniper map no big deal, right? 20% of the kills this week were with the stare. It beat out the conspiracy theory HANDILY on a map that is supposed to be CQC. Care to explain that?

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      • Unloading half a primary weapon clip into a snipers head and still getting sniped isn't balanced, I agree with most everything else though.

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        • Just one quick comment- You say most have less aim assist, but in the 1K Stare class of impact...1K is actually almost better than most before it. Higher than Her Benevolence, no forced roll like Shadow of Veils, and...I wasn't around for the other snipers xP A SLR10(or Shortgaze)/Hidden Hand 1k Stare is off the charts with aim assist. Not crying for nerfs or any shit like that, just stating it how it is.

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          • [quote]I see snipe this, snipe that, shotguns are worthless and they nerfed my Titan posts daily. Or this meta sucks, blah blah blah. I'm gonna drop some knowledge on you guys that just don't get it. You ready? Ok. First, there has always been this amount of sniping in the game. You just haven't ran in to it as much because there were alot more shotgun guys running around. You also had thorn which was a mini snipe pistol in the mix. There were more options. The big thing though was, THERE WERE MORE PLAYERS. I cannot give you a scientific study on this due to bungie not releasing numbers but the population of PVP started dropping with the new raid in September. I personally watched my friends list of pvp guys using all their time on the raid, and newer strike content. The CASUALS had totally left pvp and were back to playing solo co op related content like they really always want to do. Pvp was left with a much smaller pool of players that imo were of a higher caliber player. I no longer was running 2.0 every other game but barely scratching a 1.00. Now fast forward to October, November. New games started hitting and a lot of people left. The PVP pool was getting smaller and the skill gap was closing. You're facing people who can snipe your face off bot due to a particular guns aim assist but because you're facing better players. Why do you think trials is so much harder? The less casuals playing this game, all you will have left is ridiculous pvp player after another. Elitist raid players, sorry makes me laugh , lol. You guys have to realize, you are what's left. You are hardcore players. I left from oct till just this past week. I took my break, I enjoyed fallout, hated halo, and enjoyed time with my family and broke the addiction to destiny. I always knew I'd be back though. The problem is we need the casuals to come back but in all honesty I don't see this happening until a proper sequel is released with real next generation graphics, drop the 360 and PS3. I don't see the casuals coming back until this community gets off its elite high horse and realizes that you need bad players, good players, and great for the game to succeed. Just my opinion.[/quote]

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          • Totally agree people just want to nerf snipers just like shotguns

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          • Edited by Grim Griever: 12/14/2015 1:10:50 AM
            Whether it's from lag and bad hit box design or actual bullet pull for snipers, the effect is still the same. Drag scoping doesn't require that much skill when you literally have a 2 second window because of poor design. Either snipers need to be brought in or the hit boxes need to be smaller. Ask just about anyone why they use a sniper and the answers will be because ease of use and sheer advantage. I want to see the stats from Bungie. I bet 80% of the whole damn player base has got a sniper rifle stuck up their ass. Edit: You guys realize dtr records kills around you as well? Learn some mechanics of the sites you use before you start spouting off nonsense. Most of my kills come from primaries. And last I checked, a handful of the important stats I'm in the top 1-2% and my kd is in the top 6%. Not epic or even great but not shit. I have had plenty of experience with snipers in multiple games and I've always found the play style not to my liking. I could easily devout hours to building the muscle memory. I choose not to. Also not sayin shotguns weren't abused nor saying it should go back to that. I'm just seeking variety and viable counters that don't involve using the same shit. Maybe it's poor map design but it only takes two snipers to reliably defend any position from flanks. Even with nades. Even with supers. You guys can deny all you want but hug your fotm and keep spoutin about my shit stats when you just hug the meta and your homies nuts(admittedly it's a team game I just lone wolf too much, so kudos)

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            • Edited by HoneyBadgerRage: 12/13/2015 9:30:42 PM
              Very true. All these retards get perfect rolled 1kstare, which is what make this weapon so overused. What we need is this: More high impact snipers BIG reduction to special ammo at spawn and from crates. Literally, ldr is wayyy more over powered than 1kstare.... Spawn with 4 sniper shots, get 2-3 per crate.

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            • I don't know where you're getting your numbers from: Queenbreaker's has 100 Aim assist and is a fusion rifle. Oh and very few people had the prudence

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              • Edited by Escanor-cg: 12/12/2015 3:38:56 PM
                The problem is not the aim assist itself, what make tje sniper is a problem is the ammunition because is infinite and in trials for exampke u can can get 14-18 bullets very easy and use cheap headshots over and over after an enemy revive, now in destiny snipers are extremily easy to use and is the weapon with better hitbox I means 1 bullet or 2 to kill everything and dont forget the scopes who allow you more aim assist, close and mid combat shots that is not the real place from a sniper they suppose to use in long range combats. At this moment the snipers weapons is the more unbalance weapon in pvp and what they need is not a direct nerf, what snipers need is a ammunition reduction 2 bullets per cage 3 if u have the armor part who allow carry more ammo, reduce the move speed and reduce the time of swiching to yoir primary, increase the flitch a sniper nerver and never should be aviable to beat a handcannon,pulse or autorifles at mid ranges NEVER same sidearms and shotguns in close combats

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                • My advice is to stop playing crucible. I'm tired of the constant changes

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                  • Just to put this into perspective mida has 90 aim assist

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                    • OHK potential. That's why shotguns were king and snipers. Special weapons should be powerful and work in there intended roll better than any other weapon. Bungie made the guns perfect for what they were intended to do. There was nothing wrong with Feltwinters or any sniper in the game. They performed how they should have. The problem is the availability of special ammo. There are enough special ammo crates laying around that you rarely have to pull out your primary if you don't want to.

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                    • Did you forget that ikora b*tch that no one likes gave everyone a perfect roll shotty and sniper not to mention that sniper has shortgaze and it was at 300

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                    • Agree

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                    • Poo is brown sometimes

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                      • What makes snipers seem OP is all the people in trials who just revive their teammates while their orb is being hardscoped by an enemy sniper and not shooting at him or pushing their teammate

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                      • It all changed when the fire nation attacked :|

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                      • obviously fusion rifles or shotguns need a buff so people start using those more

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                      • To balance weapons more they should buff shotguns and fusion rifles and sidearms...and primaries.

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                        • Edited by NECRO_TYPE1: 12/13/2015 12:20:46 AM
                          After today's snipe fest I'm not going to play crucible anymore until snipers are fixed. Edit: I'll probably play... Just quit all snipe games.

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                          • Pretty sure this all boils down to people are just getting better at sniping. People have had over a year to lock down a play style.

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                          • Main problem with snipers in PvP is movement, strafing while hard scoping is overpowered

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                            • If they add sway on scope I think a lot of current snipers will struggle and you'll start to see the really good and skilled snipers rise above.

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