JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

#feedback

Edited by Lost Sols: 12/7/2015 3:26:59 AM
103

Future Destiny Design: Measure twice, cut once.

[quote]"I think that the Ghost is a really great metaphor for Destiny in this way where, I don't know that we, as Bungie, understood the type of game that Destiny could be," Smith said. "In the same way, I feel like a bunch of the early writing for the Ghost, in vanilla, we didn't understand what the character of the Ghost could be. And because we didn't understand that character so well, the words don't always ring super well and the performance didn't have the writing that it needed either." -Luke Smith[/quote] [quote]"To think that somehow, before Destiny had shipped, we had some ten-year plan written down somewhere? It’s comical. We allowed the narrative to get constructed that Bungie is just a corporate entity and not a bunch of humans, a collection of people who are just trying to make a really great game." -Urk[/quote] Greetings fellow Guardians, So the release of The Taken King has been contentious (to put things mildly). This expansion represents such a monumental shift in the way this game functions as it tries to fix what Bungie have admitted was a product they weren't completely happy with on it's release in September 2014. I'm not posting this to debate whether or not TTK is a success in redefining this game, but rather to explore how we got here and these two quotes are quite telling. I said a couple months ago that Bungie wouldn't need hindsight if they used a little foresight and what we have here are two high ranking team members at Bungie telling us that they really didn't plan out this game very well. Starting with Urk, I was really surprised to hear him say that. Of course you probably didn't know exactly what would happen over the life of this game, but there's no way you go into a potentially billion dollar franchise without a road map of what you'd like it to be. Like a movie director laying out storyboards, there had to be an overall framework for what they intended Destiny to be. Sure there will be detours and branching roads along the way, but (even if they really did scrap everything in the last year) the overall direction would have to be in place. Then we have another gem from poor Luke. At this point it is almost painful to have to see Luke put out in front of the press because he is not a spokesperson and for Bungie to repeatedly put him in these situations is kind of sad. Unfortunate as it is that they do, here we are with him telling us they didn't understand the game they were making. What's maddening about that is WE KNEW what this game could and should be, so how can they possibly have not understood? Their steadfast refusal to think things through is almost pathological at this point. Designed a shared world game that would require sever based gameplay... [b]Didn't consider that might require an investment in dedicated servers.[/b] Designed a SHARED WORLD game that would require servers so that we could see random people on patrol and take part in public events together... [b]Didn't build in any social tools other than the ability to dance, point and wave to each other, thus almost completely invalidating the shared open world.[/b] Designed a PvP arena that let us use the weapons and armor we found out in the world... [b]Freaked out and started nerfing EVERYTHING when they realized that meant more powerful weapons were more powerful.[/b] Designed endgame activities that required they be run in teams of 3 or 6... [b]Didn't implement anyway to group for those activities.[/b] Made a game in which we'd constantly be finding things out in the world... [b]Forgot we'd need places to store them.[/b] Now we head into year 2 and the hope is that these things are behind us and they've learned from their mistakes, but there are still some troubling gaffes that suggest that might not be the case. As much as TTK has gotten right, the Court of Oryx is a major disappointment. For an event that got its own live stream preview, it just doesn't seem like they thought it out at all. Watching the reveal, I think a lot of us questioned not only the decision to limit rewards to the person using a rune, but the fact that we'd have to repeatedly run the lower levels to be able to run the higher ones didn't seem like something most would want to keep doing and it looks like they don't. CoO has been virtually dead since launch. People went in, charged up and did their Antiquated and didn't go back. I've never seen more than 4 people running it and the lengths people are having to go through to run it are ridiculous with fireteams going in, splitting and inviting in more to try to get a big enough group to face a tier 3 boss. What's exasperating is that it's one more thing that could be a thriving experience if there were just some form of in-game LFG system (hosted lobbies Bungie, seriously). Then we have the strike quitters. I can't understand how they couldn't see this coming when they killed off the weekly. It's literally the first thought that went through my head when they announced that. When there was a weekly, the strike was the strike and so people had to run it. When they made it so any strike gave the rewards, it opened up the door for people to run what they wanted to get their marks and of course that meant quitting out of the ones they didn't like. It was the most obvious outcome for a design decision ever, so did they not see it coming or just not care? Finally I'll throw in the apology that Tyson Green had to offer up in the Weekly Update to fans who were pissed off that they were searching for ways unlock the Sleeper Simulant quest.. only for it to be time-locked. There is so much that has been improved with the game since launch, but it just seems time and again that Bungie are their own worst enemies by not considering how design decisions will play out a week, a month, a year down the road. 4 releases, 4 economies anyone? So please Bungie, if you really have no 10 year plan, please hire someone to draft one because this game deserves it and these fans deserve it. Just close your eyes and picture it in your mind. If you see it, you can get there... [spoiler] Still banned. Ninjas are still a joke. Peace.[/spoiler]
English
#feedback

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • bump!

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • I get sick and tired of hearing the word "expansion". This is simply not the case for long term high level players, I point to our shrinking heroic strike playlist. If you bring out new content then remove old content this is not expansion.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    1 Reply
    • Thanks for the feedback. Keep posting it here and I will keep taking it to the dev team so they can use it to plan for the future.

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      157 Replies
      • Destiny is Destiny An unplanned , not finished , half ass game which is cut into pieces and story line is removed so that we don't understand the cut content. Thanks to Marty O Donnel all the proof is out there. Destiny will never become the game you or I desire because our desire conflicts with Activision interests. Bungie has no say on Destiny , they hand themselves to Activision with signing that contract. Destiny will continue to cash the milks until there is a competitive game. many say Fallout 4 etc.. will kill Destiny but i kindly disagree. Destiny's only advantage and the only reason why many play this game is Fireteams. With fireteams many of us realised gaming can be taken to next step and create major fun while gaming. This kept many of us playing the game but for some enough is enough. I am really sad for you guys as you are hoping to see improvements on a lost cause. With Activision leading , you can achieve nothing. If you want Destiny to succeed , then stop paying for it. That's the only way Activision will leave this game alone.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        7 Replies
        • Edited by Saxifraga: 10/11/2015 8:43:23 AM
          They are just lying through their teeth. They had a nearly finished product and cut it into parts to sell them as DLC and "Year Tow". It's so obvious, their excuses to save face by hiding behind a smoke screen of disinformation hurts my brain.

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        • The thing that comes to mind when trying to sum up the Bungie Bungles is this: The design of this game seems to come from a spirit of designer ego as well as contempt for the players.

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          3 Replies
          • Their sodium levels are too high. Only a matter of time before their tightened rear ends fold in on themselves cause they clench them so hard.

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          • I wonder why people hope this game is gonna live for looooooooooooong time. C'mon guys weak up, they lose 2 important members (and one of those was the guy who wrote Destiny's story) they put a huge pay wall between the year one players and the second year players. They nerf 70000 times our weapons. they take off some contents we pay for play, so i wonder why you still belive in Bungie and Activision.

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          • It's so good to see an intelligent, logical critique. This is constructive criticism. It is helpful and occurs infrequently in these forums. Well done.

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            2 Replies
            • Edited by N4VYS43L: 10/10/2015 2:43:43 AM
              To bad for Bungie the only person who actually knew what they were doing while developing this game Activision's bullshit caused him to quit. Destiny will never be the game it was suppose to be while it's under the control of Activision. They will squeeze every little penny they can out of this game. And no one at Bungie has the balls to speak out against Activision. It's a true shame that the developers that created a franchise that will be in the books as one of the best game series, have become one of the most hated developers and nothing more than a hollow shell just after one game.

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              3 Replies
              • Wanted to pull out one item to talk about since it has been on my mind lately. Court of Oryx. I have no problem with the fights or people there to do it, I have come across some great people when going there solo. My problem lies in the RNG just to get the runes. I have had plenty of tier 1 and 2, spent all my wax idols to get more tier 2. In doing all that and having three charcters available, I have only got one tier 3 rune. That's it. I would find it interesting to have the stats on how many bosses I have summoned/help kill there. I know other people are getting them because I helped kill the boss about 10 times last week. Would just like guaranteed ways to get something like this instead of having RNG on top of RNG. They claimed to want to reduce it but it seems like it's more prevalent. Anyone with suggestions on how to get antiquated runes, it would be much appreciated.

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              • I think it's a shame they don't understand what actually creates playing time. Things like the loot cave, wolves chest (before patch), Three of coins are things people will sit down and play the game for hours on end for a chance to get loot. Court of oryx if they would let you use any ruin when you wanted would be way better and played more often. In game lobbies, fire teams of 3-6 on patrol would be the best thing in the world for this game. They honestly don't know what creates play time and what doesn't.

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                1 Reply
                • I'd like to add the lack of foresight in people boosting each other in crucible for the exotic bounties.

                  Posting in language:

                   

                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                  5 Replies
                  • All excellent points Sol, I see complaining about the token response and it's valid. It's not really a response so much as a third party acknowledgment. Community managers have the feel of that call center voice that say yes sir we understand and thank you for your feedback. Really Cosmo doesn't give feedback from developers he just says hi. It's no communication it's press release and spin. I wish they would just make a statement about the way it will be. Quotes like don't throw away that fate bringer makes me cringe. The 4 new directions so far doesn't give any faith I should build specific builds because my efforts will be too short lived to be worth my while. They just need to make a decision. The idea that they didn't have a 1, 5, and 10 year plan at all is staggering. Honestly you shouldn't get financing for a pop ice stand without those plans. To think that they are really that poorly organized leads me to think they are a bunch of handing computer geeks that hired more computer geeks to do the management, financing, and marketing plan. Very poor business practice. Now you might respond with "but look how well it's done on cash flow so far and it was mad popular on Sony download". However it's clear how much has been left on the board in terms of game execution and wasted resources of year one content. That's all wasted money, there are lost customers due to indecision (cheap to keep expensive to replace), there are many on the edge of jumping ship if they don't start realizing the potential. Personally the errors are significant enough that I would have canned people left and right. Maybe they think that Bungie on the resume means they are special but everyone is replaceable.

                    Posting in language:

                     

                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                  • why do yo keep on bringing up vault space when its been increased with each expansion? (save the horrible Below) and match-making is not the answer, especially when your acknowledging one of its biggest flaws right before bringing it up! whats with people claiming their is absolutely no way to socialize othe than leaving your game? XBL has plenty of tools for the job already! do you bring a calculator when doing math homework on a computer?

                    Posting in language:

                     

                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                    2 Replies
                    • George Millers "Mad Max: Fury Road" is the greatest example of how a story board works. The guy had it for 10 years without a solid script worked out because of all the bull crap that happened in the real world preventing it from being made. He had a plan set and made what could be the greatest action film ever made. He had so much on the story board there was enough for 3 movies. (he is going to make them all too). Mark Jacobs is the current head of CIty State Entertainment. Most of the stuff we all see and do in gaming today was innovated by him and his teams after the creation of Dark Age of Camelot. Mark was fired from his company by EA before Warhammer online came out and we all know what happened to that title. Mark's new company is so open with its games development that just today they released footage of a guy doing photoshop concept art to see if the fans like it. AND has shown live streams of guys putting code into the game. Throughout the few years of the games development there has been a clear end goal of what the developers are trying to make and they have explained it clearly. Why are these two stories important? They are important because they show how industry leaders, that have already proven to be successes, go about doing business. This is what is required of you to create something that will last and be loved. You don't go into something haphazardly without thinking things through. Which is exactly what the leads at Bungie are telling us. They flat out told the public, they didn't think things through. And that could be Activision pushing things out the door. We all know what happened to Warhammer Online after Mark left. It's almost uncanny how things are similar to Destiny with after its main creators leaving. Difference is I think Activision has more to lose if it goes under, EA couldn't care less and GW was gonna axe the whole universe anyway so they didn't care either. The point is stories have a beginning, a middle and an end. They have be thought out logically before they even hit the page. For them to tell us they have none of that is a laugh. Personally I think it's a lie. I think this was their vision. I think they thought this story and the way it's being told was going to be the next Halo. I don't see how they could be given the money they were given to make this game without those basics mentioned above. They had to have something. Otherwise, how on earth did the marketing team have anything to market to the publc. They had to have an idea so the market crew could roll out a narrative to the public to sell the product. They could have said it was gonna be a M.O.B.A. but the marketing team knew better. Because Bungie had to come to them with an idea and a product to sell. The Sleeper Stimulant is another tally on the belt of miscommunication and hard sell bull crap that Bungie sold this game on for over a year after release. They hype maned the whole thing up. They had people believing there was some long convoluted quest chain that would make The Secret World blush and it wasn't anything close to that. At no point did they come out and correct anyone on how that line of thinking was incorrect. They never said it would be a timed release only and that it would require a simple quest to unlock it. Now we have this issue with the Micro Transactions and people saying DLC with be free in the future... will it? Bungie have proven they don't want us to really know what they are thinking or doing so long as what we are thinking is good PR for the game. And free DLC is good PR. Is there going to be free DLC or is there going to be just a quest or two and you still have to pay for each DLC as we always have been? Fact is they won't tell you because it isn't their business model. Being clear and concise is not what they do. They basically lie by omission of the truth. They even went so far as to create two separate types of content to cover their butts in the future. It has been stated time and again that humans are like water. We seek the path of least resistance. People leaving strikes because they can so they can get a strike they want to do that is quick and easy is just simple human nature. I fail to see how people with college degrees can forget this simple fact. I mean Jesus, finding the path of least resistance to get things done is something every college kid does. No one picks the hard road because they choose too, the do it because they have too. Even U.S. Marines, the tough nails bastards they are (love you), will seek comforts of home in the shit holes they are forced to sleep in. Any exploit, over powered weapon, or quick fix will be abused till its patched in any game. Doesn't matter if it's Destiny or not. I find it odd they wanted to create a long lasting game and then got confused when the power creep caught up to them. I find it odd how they couldn't understand why people wouldn't want to run old raids and events that offered sub par gear that was top dog only a year ago. It will continue to be this way with each year. Unless they add vanity slots, something done correctly in The Secret World, then players have no reason to go back and farm for gear. Old skins that look good or better than current setups become prizes. That older content then continues to matter years after it is gone or made obsolete. I can continue to look how I choose and I have to run this old content to do it. Or they could just wipe everything and start us all with white gear and bring us to level 1 in Destiny 2. Hell it would be the simple path of least resistance for the development tea...oooooo.

                      Posting in language:

                       

                      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                      7 Replies
                      • Does anyone know what the player limit is in a zone? When I go on patrol, it's usually just me and my fireteam, if I have a fireteam. I may see a random here and there, but I've never seen more than 6 players in a zone at once. I also think there are plenty of people doing court of oryx and other patrol activities, but the lobbies for these zones are low. I also need to add that court of oryx has so much more potential. The rewards need to be worth the activity, doing a antiquated rune that is 300 light and getting 280 rewards seems counter productive. I could do level 36 strikes and get better rewards and that has matchmaking.

                        Posting in language:

                         

                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        1 Reply
                        • unfkngbelievable. i hope the ridiculously stupid mod who ninja'ed you for saying poopie reads this and bans me too. ask me how many fks i give? i won't even notice it, because i rarely come here anymore since this community has been taken over by a huge pile of shitspewing numbskulls who can't afford to spend forty dollars on a fkng video game. what kind of half-assed system does bungie use to pick and choose its forum moderators anyways? is there any kind of checks and balances system to verify their apparently wanton use of the ban hammer? bunch of freakin neckbeards, "errmahhgerdd..he said poopie." anyone wonder why the dev team prefers to read the reddit than this steaming pile of shit that makes perez hilton look like the new york times? it's because this forum is completely worthless in comparison. gg Deej = one community management failure after another.

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        • Lol just in the last day I have said 10x more insulting things too all these cryhards.... Where's my ban? Or did I just not insult the wrong fúckin guy?

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                          17 Replies
                          • Hey Cozmo, how can Lost Sols keep on posting feedback when your Ninja's keep on banning him? #bumpfortruth

                            Posting in language:

                             

                            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                            1 Reply
                            • No ban I see ur post.

                              Posting in language:

                               

                              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                            • No offense Sols, but I can't stop laughing that a Ninja banned you for that. I wonder if I'd get banned for calling someone "Twinkie Tits" and not be banned by saying "Jackass". [spoiler]I'm probably will be bant.[/spoiler]

                              Posting in language:

                               

                              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                              1 Reply
                              • Unban sols

                                Posting in language:

                                 

                                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                              • Sounds like the ninjas are discriminating now.

                                Posting in language:

                                 

                                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                              • Cosmo to dev team "hey guys, this lost sols guy brings up some good points." Dev team "ban that douche" ....continue working on next nerf

                                Posting in language:

                                 

                                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                3 Replies
                                • Bump I sometimes wonder if bungie is, working inside of a bubble, surrounded by "yes" people. Some of the decision making such as you described is mind boggling to me and usually only happens in a house of hubris or a house of incompetence. Sometimes a bit of both. I'm enjoying ttk for the most part and there is plenty room for improvement Keep it up LS

                                  Posting in language:

                                   

                                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                  3 Replies
                                  You are not allowed to view this content.
                                  ;
                                  preload icon
                                  preload icon
                                  preload icon