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Edited by Lost Sols: 11/3/2015 2:54:49 AM
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Luke Smith: Here's why there's no matchmaking in Destiny

Here is Luke Smith from the latest Edge magazine [quote]"I think matchmaking can make other players disposable to you," comments Smith. "The reason that people quit out of strikes is because there’s no consequence to their departure, just a punishment for that disposable person on the other end of the line.[/quote] Okay Luke, here's the thing. No matter how much you want everyone to get 25 of their besties to buy Destiny and all play together, the reality is that the majority of players are logging in and running solo with match-made teammates. And yes, matchmaking can make people feel disposable... WHEN THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO COMMUNICATION. I don't get how you all don't get that that this game needs chat options. If I'm in a strike, PvP match or on patrol and I come across or I'm teamed with other guardians and I can't talk to them, then they might as well be AI bots. I have absolutely nothing to cause me to form any kind of spur of the moment bond or to even feel like there is another human being playing along side me because you chose to not allow us the opportunity to try to get to know people. [quote]It’s pretty hard for me, emotionally, to want to subject groups of players to that.[/quote] So why make the weekly rewards drop from any strike? If there's one weekly strike (like before), then no one is quitting out to get a better strike. [quote]What’s not hard for me to think about is a version of Destiny that makes it easier to look for and find groups to go engage in difficult content with, a version that helps bring people together in a way that the current software doesn’t." [/quote] There have been literally hundreds of suggestions on these forums for ways you can go about implementing in-game grouping. It's not difficult to make hosted lobbies like Perfect Dark and Gears of War. It creates a system in which those comfortable with leading can host groups and those who aren't as socially inclined can queue for them. They'd literally solve every single matchmaking issue in this game. [quote]"A bunch of the stickiness of Destiny for me is that it’s the bar I can go to when I get home, where I can wear my pajamas and shoot the shit with my friends. It’s a game that’s best played with others, and it’s our responsibility to embrace that further in the game." [/quote] And why do people go to bars? Generally to meet other people. What bars that you go to, inspired Destiny's not allowing anyone to talk to each other? Destiny isn't a bar, it's a public library and you're not a fun bartender, you're the cranky old librarian shushing us.

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  • Edited by harrymfa: 4/1/2016 12:05:37 PM
    Luke Smith doesn't have an argument, he has an opinion. Bungie is going to suck until they fire his ass. That egocentric, condescending piece of shit has no business making videogames.

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  • This right here (https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/172626620/0/0) is why there NEEDS to be [b]optional[/b] match-making. LFG would be nice, but it still won't solve the problem; although, in-game LFG would be better than the current state of affairs :/

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  • bump!

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  • I stuck with this shit wreck of a system for over a year hoping it would get better or be rectified. I see nothing on the horizon that makes me think positive changes are coming. Due to this I am dropping Destiny as of next week (Fallout baby) I won't be back. As an example... Last night I attempted to get a group together to see if I could finally get Black Spindle... Posted on LFG and recruitment. After an hour of no response I gave up. I had 1 person send me a message telling me I wasn't a high enough level... 297 should be plenty. This was a response I got in an attempt to start my own team. So I literally spent an hour on websites and forums instead of actually playing. This was not enjoyable in any way shape or form. Never ran PoE over 28 since it had no matchmaking and still haven't even sniffed the current raid. How Bungie doesn't see this as a problem just proves how far up there own asses they are. Disposable? Does it freaking matter? I don't play games to make friends. I go out and interact with ppl to do that. I play games to relax and kill a few hours. Best of luck to everyone staying, I hope it eventually gets better for you. I am no longer willing to put up with this shit anymore.

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    • My career is in education and much of the changes and "communication" I see from community managers and directors at Bungie is very reminiscent to policy makers who don't understand how a classroom works. A policy maker will say something like, "Kids aren't testing good enough on PSSAs so let's make them sit for 2 consecutive hours for reading, writing, and math." In this instance, there is a clear disconnect between those in power to the kids. Teachers, parents, and even the kids themselves communicate very very clearly that sitting longer without a break is only making them check out faster and not enjoy their education. But policy makers dismiss it and continue on their charge. Destiny feels similar to this example in that while there are toxic community members (and even then it is probably due to the lack of Bungie's transparency and communication) there are non-trolling, genuine players of this game who have positive ideas that would help improve and enhance Destiny. But higher ups continue to stick their head in the sand, or the more painful version, they downright lie and manipulate their player base. I personally feel that if Bungie were to up their transparency and communication by 10% we'd have a significantly higher satisfied community. I'm very tired of weekly updates that barely skim the surface of the truly important issues. I'm tired of a community focus that only does fluff stories and distracts from a community that has put in time, energy, and money into a hope rather than a reality. And although I'd almost agree with a toxic community colleague that if I'm not having fun I should just play another game, it's not that simple as I believe there are simple and small changes Bungie could make that would lead to revolutionary increases in the fun factor. [b]Being able to switch guns without having to go into the start menu.[/b] Just floored that for a game that is all about guns still requires me to go hide in the map to go from a rocket launcher to a sword, or shotty to sniper. Hot buttons Bungie, congrats on your incredibly helpful (and clearly distracting from real gameplay) emotes, but I'd take being able to switch a gun or pop a synth over dancing any day. [b]6 Man Patrols[/b] Are you kidding me with this? You spent an entire twitch session to tout CoO and yet here I am with good friends (one of the only good things left in the game) and we can't do anything other than broken PVP or a raid together? Patrolling the cosmodrome, or just exploring stuff with a big group of friends would have such a positive impact on player experience. [b]Ascend year 1 Gear[/b] I know this is controversial and some people will tell me to let go, but I there is a fundamental flaw in Bungie's logic. Bungie clearly thinks year 1 gear is ok in PVP, so why not PVE? People will tell me that it is boring to use the fatebringer for 10 years. Isn't that my choice? People will always use what is most effective and if you think that this practice is good, I hope you never find a play style that is effective for you as that will be the cue Bungie needs to take that away from you. The reason for lack of Ascension is because Bungie has clearly run out of the energy, creativity, and time to create new guns that are so fun that they make you want to lay down your old guns rather than have to. If I want to use my fatebringer, that in no way removes you from your choice to use the new gear. We just both know in our hearts that Bungie hasn't created guns good enough yet to seduce us away from guns that were awesome. And yes, they could make new guns that are better. Bungie needs to worry much more about how much fun their players are having more so than a gun being OP. [b]Make the Old Raids Relevant[/b] Other than an exotic quest that ended with a mediocre gun, VoG is pure nostalgia. Pump up the enemies to a new level of 40 and start dropping year 2 loot. [b]Elemental Infusion[/b] A big complaint over old elemental primaries was that it limited which guns people wanted to use during PVE. Well with this idea everyone wins (including Bungie as it would extend the grind). You want to use your hung jury with arc? Here ya go! Or would you rather use your Hawkmoon with void? No problem! How about Treads on Stars with void? Fixed. Run the way you want, with the gear you want, with the element you want. If you think elements make it all too easy, then here's a simple fix for you: don't make your guns elemental. Problem solved. [b]Rules for Engrams[/b] Follow me on this one, it's like a rule for email, or a filter. In the game of destiny we all get tons of useless drops. What if, you could set up a rule where if a blue engram dropped at say 275 or lower the game automatically dismantled it and put the resulting material in your inventory. It never took up room. Beautiful. [b]OMM / Or at least a better social ability in the tower[/b] This is an all over the place topic but I think no one would argue that Destiny's social tools are lacking. I would love to drop in to the tower and see a place where people could physically congregate with bubbles over their heads (or something) that indicated desired activity (nightfall, farming, strike, raid, trials, etc.) people could then inspect the player and message them easily (maybe a very straightforward "message player" button). Ok this is getting long (ya think)... Last one... Bungie Needs To Communicate Better There are clear, non-trolling posts out there looking for answers to simple and reasonable questions. There is a toxic part of the community, no doubt stemmed from frustrations with the game but have turned permanently sour due to a lack of response. I heard this in one of the streams Bungie put out "Players only get mad about stuff they care about." And that is so true. But if communication isn't given about these things we care about, it only leads to a toxic response. - Moldering shards not dropping any loot when they were guaranteed - Questions about the drops for exotic duplicates - Basketball court Easter egg for people wasting days of their effort and time only to communicate after - Sunsinger nerf (default) - Quiver "fix" before trials - Loot rate drops for IB - FRICKING SPRINT LOCK... Lol, a year later, wow - Etheric Light... Wth?! Do something already! - Time walled content - Reduced weapon parts, strange coins, motes? How does that make the game better? - 45% reduction to shotguns in PVE? Fix that crap. Is this whining?! Hell yes it's whining. But it's cuz I think there is hope for this game if Bungie were to try and skirt the line a little closer to fun and pull back from the greed fest just a little. I'm not against a company making a profit, but I believe there is a future where Bungie can be greedy asshats and the player base can still have fun. Ok. That's what I got. Does that answer your questions Sols? Lol. Grind on guardians! - Dizz Ace

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      • One of the many absurd things about his reply is that nearly every online game has a debuff or penalty for dropping groups, as well as ways to form/ organize and cull players from said groups (all in-game, without your cell phone, even! How revolutionary!). His logic trips and falls apart right in the first quote. What's so irritating is that it's not as if Bungie created destiny in a space-time bubble and have no idea how these systems are successfully implemented in, again, nearly every other game on the market. Luke is being willfully dense. Or, he has something medically wrong with his brain. I know sociopaths can dissociate and reason anything, no matter how asinine. I'm getting my new autorifle tomorrow and uninstalling this giant albatross. I'm sure the armsmith roll will suck on it anyway. Just like today's NF and a 290 chest piece with terrible stats lol Destiny really has become an exercise in self-flagellation.

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      • I'm starting to think he only cares about how HE plays the game, not us. He already has our money and a game he manipulates to his every whim. There's no incentive for him to change that. Prick.

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        • I think what you're trying to say is we don't need more match-making we need TEAM -making. A tool where you can easily build a group by conveying what you're interested in playing and the kind of players you're looking for. So we don't need to open our damn phones and computers to build teams and clans.

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          • "It's a game best played with others" Cool. Glad there are ways in game to find others to play with...

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            • [quote]"I think matchmaking can make other players disposable to you," comments Smith. "The reason that people quit out of strikes is because there’s no consequence to their departure, just a punishment for that disposable person on the other end of the line.[/quote] I think that when people on lfg sites are getting kicked because they don't have ghallarhorn/touch of malice/or certain emblems, etc, they are being treated just as disposable.

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              • [quote]"I think matchmaking can make other players disposable to you," comments Smith. "The reason that people quit out of strikes is because there’s no consequence to their departure, just a punishment for that disposable person on the other end of the line.[/quote] I think not listening to it's customers can make a game developer disposable to you. Luke Smith, from what I have read, has to be the absolute worst critical decision maker in the history of mankind. 1 week until Fallout for me and my Destiny time will nosedive way more than it already has. May even be enough to pull the needle from my arm.

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                • Is he really this dumb? All we want is OPTIONAL matchmaking. Not FORCED matchmaking. Holy -blam!-ing -blam!-! Please remove that guy from any decision making concerning Destiny. [quote]for me is that it’s the bar I can go to when I get home, where I can wear my pajamas and shoot the shit with my friends.[/quote] THAT'S NOT FOR EVERYBODY, LUKE! AaaaaaaaaaaaaaRGH!

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                • It apprears that Luke is totally antisocial. I have always supported OMM for those who want it. Having no social tools in a socially dependent game has never made any sense to me. For the most part, I leave my mic off unless I'm running the raids. I have played open mic games and the background chatter and noise is enough to make me shut it off.

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                  • His rationalization makes no sense. Plenty of players have joined a group via LFG and have quit for whatever reason. There were no consequences. There are consequences when you rage quit with your friends or clan. To make friends or get into a clan you have to meet others who play the game and most have done so using LFGs. It's PR. I don't buy it.

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                  • Having chat will help only a little from someone dumping another person. And having said that, there should still be matchmaking. What is all this BS ethics? Seriously, Bungie WANTS players to play a certain way, yet devalues those players themselves with a whoreish lack of content for way too high a cost. Give me a break Bungie, stop lying to yourself that you care about people dumping other players when you just wrote a ton of code to dump players who didn't buy TTK. The problem is you, Bungie, not the players.

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                  • Edited by ace2bme: 11/7/2015 6:30:47 PM
                    It's like BT saying " we don't think we should supply telephone directories because people might get calls from people who are not on your friends and family list and they might hang up on you So we prefer you to look elsewhere to find a number. It's your responsibility to get a number. We just provide the phone.

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                  • Nightfall matchmaking was tried, tested, and proven with the exotic sword strikes. Thousands of Guardians are rocking multiple swords now and this required communication and teamwork to be effectively completed. The forums didn't explode with complaints. In fact most were happy they could load up and go without needing a second screen or friends on the same schedule. Raids wouldn't be much different. Especially on normal. And with the lobby system like gears? It would be amazing.

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                    • Edited by AlamoCity: 11/4/2015 12:38:52 AM
                      Dear LS, You state "It’s a game that’s best played with others, and it’s our responsibility to embrace that further in the game." So given this illogical reasoning to not having optional matchmaking in raids, when will we have actual in-game tools to connect/find other guardians? Don't you find it pathetic that we have to use non-Bungie sites, meaning we have to be taken away from gameplay, to find others to play the game? You don't see the obvious flaw in that thinking toward this particular game design element? Git gud at understanding your playerbase. There are too many good games coming up to be riding on this flawed logic. Sincerely, A player since beta on a thin piece of thread before dropping this game

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                    • Edited by Bungolickstaints: 11/3/2015 8:42:15 PM
                      Luke Smith proving he is completely out of touch with his fanbase? I'm shocked.

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                    • Edited by Megaman: 11/3/2015 9:18:39 AM
                      Bump so hopefully Luke will realize this community is tired of his idiotic bullshit and power trip. I think he's borderline sociopathic, he seems to get great pleasure out of making this community miserable and rubbing salt infused lemon juice in their wounds.

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                      • Seems more like Luke thinks all of us Destiny players are disposable. Just a bunch of stupid numbers logging in everyday and helping make Bungie and Activision get rich. We are all disposable hamsters grinding dumb content over and over for one tiny little chance at a tiny little light level increase. Nope. Not anymore. I'm out. All my clan mates are leaving too. Turns out the other games are now here. But don't worry no "other game" will kill Destiny. Bungie and Activison are already doing a great job of that.

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                      • Nah Luke, it's just you...thinking that other players are disposable. 99% of mm players on both platforms will res you as soon as possible because we do care

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                      • Bump

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                      • http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Dungeon_Finder

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                      • Everytime I see an excuse like this I just chop it up to laziness.

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                      • Edited by The Dark Hadou: 11/4/2015 1:16:38 PM
                        Where was this attitude in the H3 days when quitters/derankers where everywhere in MM? Why didn't Bungle turn round in 2008 and say that, in order to protect us from feeling disposable, they have removed MM from all H3 ranked playlists and that we'd now have to visit BNet to find a team? They're just trotting out excuses as to why they haven't implemented something that should have been included in the game at launch and, quite frankly, their attitude towards optional MM (and the fact they appear to think they have to babysit their playerbase to protect them from feeling disposable when it should be our choice whether we subject ourselves to it or not) is laughable. I played 50 high Slayer, dubz, swat, snipers and 43 high MLG in my H3 days (mainly with my friends as I wasn't that good, dubz 50 only), all through MM, and it not only required more communication/teamwork/skill than anything in Destiny but it was also infinitely better than the system we currently have for finding people to play with in Destiny.

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