Stating weapons in a FPS were "too good" is an oxymoron. The entire point is for them to be good. The problem isn't that vanilla weapons were too good, it's that Bungie cut up year one to resell to us as dlc... Which mind you was good for their bottom line, but the problem was that all the TDB and HoW weapons were supposed to be vanilla weapons too. That's why they weren't upgrades. Also, if you can't come up with better more interesting weapons without having to nerf everything to sh*t or "reset" the game, that's a design and creativity issue, not a year one weapon issue.

Thank god. A smart person. I'm fed up and sick with people whining about weapons being obsolete. This happens every new expansions in WoW. And yes I know Destint isn't an MMO but the reset button is good

You obviously are a Casual Christmas Noob. Level what? 27 on just one character? And a. .67 k/d in Crucible?

Correct if I'm wrong (which I have been from time to time) your solution to this problem is, not hold bungie accountable. Let them nerf old weapons into dust because they can't bother to come up with great ideas for weapons. By needing and not letting us carry our old weapons with us we will be forced to use the new ones. Of course they will be better because they have nerfed the old ones to dust. Why can't we challenge bungie to make weapons and armor that we will want to use. Make us a hand cannon that when we look at the fatebringer we leave it in the fault because the new one is so great. Don't say they can't do it, remember this quote "those who say they can and those who say they can't are both usually right"

I can't believe you're supporting the reset rather than encouraging Bungie to be creative. That's lazy. "Damn we set the bar kinda high let's make that content irrelevant so we don't have to be creative and come up with better ideas anymore." GG Guardian

Nope it was a bad move. They could of just made new guns attractive. Then when a new GAME comes out they can start anew.

[quote]Compare the arsenal from vanilla Destiny to what we got with the expansions. It was considerably more powerful and left little room to progress. [/quote] Considering that Bungie has only given us three new exotic primary weapons (and one I have never heard of before, until I google’d HoW exotics): No Land Beyond, Necrochasm and 347 Vesta Dynasty. People have complained to high-heaven about the first two and the third, well… I don’t know if anyone has it. Exotic Primary weapons rule PvP because they are better in every way, or they were until House of Wolves introduced Hopscotch Pilgrim, The Messenger and The Scholar. All of which are viable legendary weapons in PvP. Your argument kinda falls on its face, here. [quote]Where do you go from Fatebringer? What improves it? [/quote] Again, this is Bungie’s fault. Fatebringer is a beast when it comes to killing Dreg’s, Vandals, Thrall and Acolytes. Bungie has centered this game around the Fallen and Hive, which employ the aforementioned enemies ad nauseum. Not only that, they also have arc shields. When you consider that 5 of the 9 strikes (or 5 or 7 for Xbox) all have Fallen or Hive and sometimes both, Fatebringer is the solution. You also have to consider our sources for primary weapons with elemental damage: VoG, Crota’s End, PoE and Trials. The majority of people playing are unable to go flawless, as is evidence by the feedback forum and the recruitment page offering carries. So, Trials weapons are virtually off the table. Now we come to Skolas. Again, check the forums and you’ll see things like “I beat Skolas once, why do it again?” I have completed the 35 PoE 42 times and have been awarded 11 elemental primary weapons. First of all, Pulse Rifles from PoE lack the impact to be useful, the same with the scout rifle and all auto rifles suck, so that leaves us with the hand cannons, of which, the solar hand cannon is the only worthwhile version and even it is undercut by the fact the it is missing third top-tier-perk (same as with all other PoE primary weapons). Not only that, but hand cannons aren’t very good against enemies with solar shields (Wizards and Centurions), so we stick with scout rifles, of which, we have one: Vision of Confluence. In closing (on this particular topic), Bungie needs to add variety in both enemies and weapons, not take it away on the basis that “Fatebringer is OP for PvE.” By the way, that is a ridiculous statement. I have spent 1,000 hours in this game and if I want to steamroll a few puny ads with Fatebringer, then so be it; I have spent enough of my life in this game to where I have earned that. [quote]We had high rate of fire, high impact, easy to handle assault rifles. Fusion rifles that could one-shot across the map. An exotic weapon so good it made all others redundant. Weapons with little to no weakness and no interesting choices in build - just a few no brainer loadouts. In the DLCs Bungie started to introduce weapons with pros and cons, but we already had better gear and there was little incentive to upgrade. And this is where we are now. [/quote] Bungie has nerfed the Mythoclast in to its rightful lplace. It is still a beast and devastates if you know how to use it. AR’s are trash and Pulse Rifle and Hand Cannons are getting nerfed, in addition, their exotic representations are getting dealt additional, individual nerfs. So, yeah… Now, back to my argument above: Bungie has introduced three exotic primary weapons since release (two of which are horrible and getting a major rework and the third is near-unobtainable). And, again, they have finally introduced Legendary primary weapons that actually compete with existing exotics. I reiterate: these are issues because Bungie is lazy. [quote]Say in TTK we get bring all our weapons forward - what would you be after? [/quote] What I do is up to me and mine. I will thank you to stay out of my personal affairs. Seriously, where do you get off trying to dictate how I play? [quote]There's very little I would want/need to replace. And this is because the initial year 1 weapons were simply too damn good. The only incentive to upgrade would be to give us even more powerful guns, which would bork the game even more. Be it in raw power, utility or both - every gun should have a strength and a weakness. [/quote] This reminds me of wealthy politicians talking about how everyone needs to pay more taxes or pay their fair share, in excess of everyone else meager contributions. How about this: you want to pay more in taxes, take some of my burden, but don’t foist your misery on me. Okay, this is a game, not taxation, but you get the idea. If you don’t want to use Fatebringer, show an act of solidarity and delete it and refuse to play with people that have it. Apply that logic to any other “OP” PvE weapon that you are complaining about and you’ll be freed from the burden of quick runs through poorly designed strikes. I say again: you play your way, I’ll play mine. [quote]Sure, exotics with more pro than con to them are fine - they have to earn their slot - but even these shouldn't be god tier, do everything solutions (looking at you, ghorn). [/quote] You have some merit, here, but very little. Exotics should stand on the shoulders of every weapon sold by Vanguard, Faction and Strikes. Endgame weapons should be comparable to exotics for their respective way to earn – PvE and PvP. PvE endgame weapons should rock faces in strikes, raids and so one, whereas PvP endgame should dominate PvP. You work for them, they need to be worthwhile. Specifically calling out Gjallarhorn is just a bate tactic, good on you. Seriously, play the game the way you want and let everyone else do their thing. It’s not enough the Bungie is nerfing all of the viable weapons that you have to rub salt in it. [quote]If you look at how Bungie have changed perks and weapons recently you can see this is the direction they're heading and if we want to have interesting load out choices and for Destiny to be scalable in gear progression, a clean slate is the only way forward. [/quote] I take it you must be new to this game or trolling (or both). I have played since day one and remember what it was like farming marks to buy weapons and gear to delete just to get my hands on Ascendant mats and turn around to farm planet mats to finish my upgrades, after running countless strikes for weapons parts, character specific upgrade mats, glimmer and XP. All of that effort and time was poured in to my armor and weapons. Bungie is taking a big steaming piss on that effort. Calling it a “clean slate” to somehow create a positive spin is utterly ridiculous. [quote]So there - suck it up Guardian.[/quote] Going to call Roto Rooter and have them service you post, just as soon as I find the yellow pages…

The more I look into it, read passionate posts and watch Destiny conspiracy vidoes the more I feel that Bungie is literally just trying to put as many roadblocks in our way to make this relatively easy game a grind fest.

Here's what I think. Fatebringer, black hammer, gjallarhorn are way too op. That's not ti say, though, that all vanilla weapons are too. Vanilla weapons were definitely designed better, in terms of talent structure and ability.

Another sheeple with no characters in the game posting idiocy. Sit down and stfu! Muted!

[quote]Compare the arsenal from vanilla Destiny to what we got with the expansions. It was considerably more powerful and left little room to progress. Where do you go from Fatebringer? What improves it? We had high rate of fire, high impact, easy to handle assault rifles. Fusion rifles that could one-shot across the map. An exotic weapon so good it made all others redundant. Weapons with little to no weakness and no interesting choices in build - just a few no brainer loadouts. In the DLCs Bungie started to introduce weapons with pros and cons, but we already had better gear and there was little incentive to upgrade. And this is where we are now. Say in TTK we get bring all our weapons forward - what would you be after? There's very little I would want/need to replace. And this is because the initial year 1 weapons were simply too damn good. The only incentive to upgrade would be to give us even more powerful guns, which would bork the game even more. Be it in raw power, utility or both - every gun should have a strength and a weakness. Sure, exotics with more pro than con to them are fine - they have to earn their slot - but even these shouldn't be god tier, do everything solutions (looking at you, ghorn). If you look at how Bungie have changed perks and weapons recently you can see this is the direction they're heading and if we want to have interesting load out choices and for Destiny to be scalable in gear progression, a clean slate is the only way forward. So there - suck it up Guardian.[/quote] Shut up throw money at your tv luke smiths fluffer