huzzah. now we can make maps much more easily due to grids! [Edited on 02.09.2009 8:39 AM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sensible PSYCHO The whole idea of releasing three maps now and three maps later is to keep both Halo 3 and Matchmaking new and fresh. As well as the fact that the three other maps for all we know are nowhere near completion- ask yourself this- would you rather wait till fall for all six maps? Or take three now?[/quote] No, the purpose behind releasing 3 now and 3 later is to assure that people will still be playing Halo 3 in 6 months. Halo 3 has been steadily losing its population ever since its release. The pop. spikes during new map releases, but it's like Disney stock, it's still always falling. That's why they are not releasing all 6 maps at once, that way they can stay in business a little longer.

So to recap. You're adding something cool, but completely fuking up Forge in the process. Gotcha. [Edited on 02.09.2009 8:18 AM PST]

So, I'll assume that "forging on a budget" goes for all prior maps as well (i.e. Foundry) Which comes a s a dissappointment to me considering that my "foundry Canvas" has always been a go-to for me. I hadn't realized that I could have been getting more out of forge.

Killballs eh? Well I would have called them "Deathticles" but that's just me.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CuriousCrispy (read all the comments, including detailed explanation of OLN on page 9, so having said that do not regurgitate the old "oln has always been there tripe.") EPIC FRICKING FAIL BUNGIE! you guys are a bunch of sheep, seriously. first, the maps were due in november, but somehow bungie didn't realize that microcrap would shoot them in the foot by telling them when they could put up their own stuff. please bungie, DON'T bother finding out when you can actually release the maps BEFORE you tell us. it was suppossed to be six maps, now it's 3 maps plus 6 months before the other 3, on top of THAT if you don't have halo wars, you have to wait an ADDITIONAL month before you can play an already very late set of maps. (Nice way to shoot yourself in the foot, so much for momenteum.) this is why so many ppl don't play as much, there wasn't that much fallout between heroic and legendary. can you say the same now? no. and now we have the creme da la creme of fail, the main point of this post. doesn't anyone remember last weeks update? does the phrase LIMITLESS mean anything to anyone here?! i know that bungie reads alot of forums, but that doesn't mean, AS A BUSINESS, that you should adopt "733T 5p3ak" as a business model, where bad means good,and a few months turns into over a year for all of them. (maps) i know the fanboys will crucify me, but could someone who gives a damn about the game remind bungie they are suppossed to be a BUSINESS and to get their head out of their asses when it comes to pissing off their customers during a recession?! damn.[/quote] Ok, lemme try and discuss this... the maps were never given a specific date for November, let alone 2008 as i recall. So what if people don't buy Halo wars? No-ones forcing them too, so enough with this 'making money' crap, you don't have to spend the cash if you don't want too, Besides Bungie is a game studio (yes, and a Business), and if they have one thing in common with other studios its that their employee's get paid- so yes Bungie does make money from it, like anyone does in any career. The whole idea of releasing three maps now and three maps later is to keep both Halo 3 and Matchmaking new and fresh. As well as the fact that the three other maps for all we know are nowhere near completion- ask yourself this- would you rather wait till fall for all six maps? Or take three now? Limitless? Find one game you can define limitless within the bounds of customisation. These new maps (especially Sandbox) are the result of careful planning on how much information and objects can be siphoned out of your game disc and harddrive and put into play simitaneously. I'm confused about the whole leet speak thing- your upset Bungie takes time to communicate with the fans? Case closed. I'm not a fanboy, I'm just tired of seeing Bungie and the forums as the dumpsite for everyones problems..... There's a reason the sandbag was developed.... [Edited on 02.09.2009 4:12 AM PST]

Sweet! The kill balls can be place on one spawn,and you could keep annoying people out. :)

(read all the comments, including detailed explanation of OLN on page 9, so having said that do not regurgitate the old "oln has always been there tripe.") EPIC FRICKING FAIL BUNGIE! you guys are a bunch of sheep, seriously. first, the maps were due in november, but somehow bungie didn't realize that microcrap would shoot them in the foot by telling them when they could put up their own stuff. please bungie, DON'T bother finding out when you can actually release the maps BEFORE you tell us. it was suppossed to be six maps, now it's 3 maps plus 6 months before the other 3, on top of THAT if you don't have halo wars, you have to wait an ADDITIONAL month before you can play an already very late set of maps. (Nice way to shoot yourself in the foot, so much for momenteum.) this is why so many ppl don't play as much, there wasn't that much fallout between heroic and legendary. can you say the same now? no. and now we have the creme da la creme of fail, the main point of this post. doesn't anyone remember last weeks update? does the phrase LIMITLESS mean anything to anyone here?! i know that bungie reads alot of forums, but that doesn't mean, AS A BUSINESS, that you should adopt "733T 5p3ak" as a business model, where bad means good,and a few months turns into over a year for all of them. (maps) i know the fanboys will crucify me, but could someone who gives a damn about the game remind bungie they are suppossed to be a BUSINESS and to get their head out of their asses when it comes to pissing off their customers during a recession?! damn.

ok. for everyone who says that the OLN thing is a bug its not. bungie put that in there on purpose. i was pretty mad when i read this but NBS Zattura on page 9 cleared it up for me. but one thing i just wanted to say is i hope bungie isnt planning to count the map packs they include with the games toward the price of ODST bc that would kinda be bull crap for those of us who alrdy paid for them. i dont wna have to pay for an alrdy overpriced map pack twice.

the name sucks but they look awesome :]

instead of telling people to sidestep the budget problem by not deleting the default stuff, why doesnt bungie just fix it? or is that too simple?

Not to be an ass as i understand the budget thing but don't you think its time to stop restricting the users of the community and really let some good maps be made without a budget? I am not looking for full map customisation but more unrestricting about what we can use

I absolutely cannot wait for sandbox. I am serious. I am about to stab my mother because I can't wait one more second. Sorry... That was uncalled for...

I wish Bungie would clear up what they mean by “[url=http://www.t3.com/feature/halo-3-mythic-map-pack-exclusive-bungie-interview]Boasting a tiered, open-world layout[/url]” What exactly do they mean by tiered? The OLN stinks, but I understand its need, as too many objects can cause framerate issues. I am glad that bungie has given us a workaround for sandbox to exceed the default OLN, and allow us to basically max out what the system can handel. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ding Chavez vGv Without a community hopper, which features community-forged maps and game types, most of the community content will never get experienced. We need a community hopper.[/quote] Agreed. There is no point to having all this forge potental without a matchmaking hopper that uses community content.

quick question about these maps. why is there a vidmaster achievement showing that there are seven skulls when bungie says that they are releasing three now. do they plan on releaseing the rest with Halo 3: ODST or what?

=D I AM SOOOOOOO EXITED, to shut out everyone i normally play with to waste away the rest of my halo 3 days on sandbox!!!!!!!!!!!

Thats nice and all, but I stoped playing Halo because of the physic's engine still fails. And as much as I loved map making, it wasn't to hard to create our own verson of the "DEATHBALL". Big whoop. Now I look forward to getting these new maps when they come out, and playing them for a couple days. But still bungie, you ignore your people. What I'm saying is, give us the power to control doors in map making. I want to be able to make a door appear, wait a min or two. and then disappear. I think this would be a great way to bring people back to playing. And frankly, I'm moving on to better games, taking a protess till this happends. (but then again, like I said when the new maps come out, I'm still gonna drop the points to play em, and probley the two new halo games that are coming out this year) Just step up the game, and really, give us what we need. Not what we want. Wizard Tripz [Edited on 02.08.2009 10:28 AM PST]

Yes, once I read that even spawn points need to be chucked into the pile as well, I was pretty annoyed. Could we get at least some confirmation that this is being fixed or is just a completely unfixable bug, as opposed to just pretending it's completely normal? Edit: Didn't see the explanation above. Makes more sense now; hopefully none of my maps will require me to conserve spawn points in a pile. That map just won't get made. [Edited on 02.09.2009 12:30 PM PST]

[quote]We also wanted to let you in on a little trick we learned. It turns out that all the default objects on Sandbox are automatically and irrevocably factored into the OLN. That means that if you delete them and create a blank "canvas," you won't be reclaiming those objects and you'll ultimately hit your OLN value long before you really should. So, instead of making a "canvas," you should stack all of the original objects off to the side (spawn points included, they're also factored into the calculation), away from your build site, and save them for reuse later. That way, you'll be able to make the most out of the total number of objects you're given to work with.[/quote] Nice job on -blam!- up in a way never thought of before bungie!

Source: Halo 3 How-to: Forge Object Editing Posted by lukems at 9/18/2007 12:40 PM PST http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=h3forgeobjects Quote: Inventory and Budget The number of objects you can place in the Forge is ultimately limited by two things: Inventory, which is the number of a specific object that you can place, and Budget, which is an overall total that keeps things in check. [i]There’s actually a [b]third limit[/b] that kicks in when you’ve got a whole heck of a lot of objects on the map, but really, you need to be looking for trouble to bump into that one. The Forge will just squawk at you and give you a polite error message if you try to go above it. Don’t bother, it’s not that spectacular.[/i] [b]Lets get technical[/b] OLN - Object Limit Number. is a visualization of this Third Limit that has existed in forge since halo 3 came out but it wasnt noticable. Now as it seems during the creation and testing of sandbox they found they reached this limit more in comparison to other maps. So in order to inform users of this active limit they added a display for this. Why does it exist?! Memory - Processing - Raw computing power. (Bad Code at times such as limiting your networked object array to like 255) Bungie has said the limit is in place to prevent lag or errors during gameplay. So lets say they didnt add this limit. You could be editing a map and exceed the limit. You will start to experience lag and it would get worse. Also wieird things will occur and everything just goes wrong. So the third limit exists. Moving on to Default Objects and their effect on OLN. Default objects - are objects that are placed inside the map with the orginial map data. Forged objects - are one the objects that are added from the list of objects with its assioated propertys (Placement, spawn times, etc) Now we you delete an default object its marked as removed but it still exists. Think of it as Spawn Time: Never, Place at Start: No. Why is it like that its how bungie did it so it acts like this. Default Data (The orginal map) Forge Map Data (Your map verient) Default Data is basicly Read Only it can not be modifyed just like map geo and textures. Forge Map Data is a file that is loaded on top of default data to create your map. It is designed like this to make Forge Map Data as small as possible instead of downloading an entire map. Since is may be how its designed the default map objects still exist and count as created objects but they are hidden. To prove that fact attempt to reach the Overall Object Limit on any map with default map objects placed and then without any default object type created (May be impossible) It should result in you reaching the limit no matter what. [b]Conclusion:[/b] The OLN is designed for a reason an has existed in halo 3 since it was created. The Default Objects being removed and still being counted is because those objects can not be deleted because the game engine can not destory default data for some technical reason. Ohhh and a additional note: the reason why the limit is reached faster is because the entire map can be moved and modded so it creates more "Forgable Objects" that counts to the limit. Compared to nothing maps the Default Object Count is much higher than other maps. So its the same old same old. Except for my additional note. Hopefully this cleared up the complaints about the budgets and limits. Sidonuke, Sidonuke@Sidonuke.com

I question the logic of announcing, before mythic shipped, that those maps will be in ODST because any penny pinching kid may come to the conclusion that "Hey, I'm buying those maps in ODST a few months down the road, why do I need to spend an extra $10 now?" similar to the freeloader logic that kept a lot of people from buying the heroic map pack.

Sweet Update

The whole killball thing looks like an interesting concept.

I don't know about anyone else, but it sounds to me as if Bungie is slacking on the Forging front. The preset crap still counts against you? I don't know if the originals do that, but it sounds like a fix is necessary for that. If they see a problem they need to fix it, because if they don't then it is up to the consumer to find glitches to make budget a thing of the past. Of course Bungie could be putting in the glitches so only the devout can access them, but conspiracy theories aside the casual forger who just wants to put a bunch of fusion coils on the ground and blow them up causing the game to crash and bring Microsoft's janky gaming system, which I love none the less, to explode.

Will the code for the Mythic Map Pack in the LE of Halo Wars be able to get the achievements?

thanks for the update on the up coming map pack bungie