Let's look at facts: •Thorn has the second fastest rate of fire of all handcannons. •Thorn's stability can break into scout rifle range with the send it perk. However, the stability is still average for a Handcannon with the perk, allowing no real downside to using it. •Vice versa, if you were to use perfect balance, the range is still pretty good. And you have one of the best stabilities for a Handcannon. •It's mag size is average for a Handcannon. •It's aim assist is higher than average handcannons. •MotD, it's main perk, can kill you after the user has died. •MotD coupled with a moderate impact can cause 110+ damage on a head shot. Like having Hawkmoon's Luck in the chamber perk proc [i]everytime[/i]. •The beforementioned perk can cause a two headshot kill. Let's talk about why that last bullet point is unfair. Well other weapons can two shot kill you, Red Death, Ill Will, The messenger, etc. However, they all have their drawbacks. The Messneger/ Red Death have slow rate of fire. Ill Will is terrible at pretty much everything else. Hawkmoon is a regular Handcannon unless those bullets proc and even then, it's stability, rate of fire and aim assist are laughably low. TLW cannot compete at longer ranges. So I ask you, what is the drawback of Thorn? I argue that if you can't answer this question for any given weapon, it's overpowered. And with Thorn, there cannot be made a logical argument on its drawbacks, because it has none. Can you honestly say with a straight face, clear conscience, and your right hand on a copy of [i]Star Wars Battlefront[/i] that weapon without a weakness is balanced?

You should post a better video next time. All I saw was an overpowers shot gun that clearly needs nerfing.

Thorn is not OP , balance is terrible and it's the issue .

All exotics are op in their own way, adapt to beat their strengths or use to their potential

I almost died watching the first minute of that. Such BS. What a tool, blink shotgunning everywhere and then panic-mashing R1 as a bladedancer. Probably worse than using Thorn.

I can't argue with the video but the dude on there is using a matador and a messenger (2 shorting with the latter). The gun is deff op but I agree with the video, buff the rest of the guns and maybe apply a lesser rate of fire to the thorn

Can't take a Thorn bitch video seriously when the uploader is blink shotgunning all over the place & using arc blade. That's like bitching about McDonalds serving unhealthy food while eating Burger King during the rant.

I was listening right up until the point he said "maybe you were playing 6 down syndrome kids..." Offensive moron.

His factual arguments are incorrect and his appeal for thorn is based largely on an emotional plea, referring to past successes and companies that failed to innovate leading to their downfall is a general statement that can be applied to anything. Anything related to a non-changing policy. This guy is full of it and it irritates my soul having to listen to this guy misinform the public so further ignorance is being spread around. Source for Bungie-Activsion staff numbers? Source for Halo-Destiny workers? None. Just more word of mouth BS that you all gobble up and repeat because you guys are willing to accept any form of BS to have thorn nerfed without the actual arguement that should take place. The weapon itself, it's opposition. Aim assist numbers, ROF numbers. Weapon stats, pre and post buff. Context to weapon and it's status in the crucible, context to it's buff. Context to handcannons. DOT numbers, TTK stats. None of it is being mentioned to detail, because by in large people who argue for a thorn nerf are PvE players who suck ass in the crucible. They don't look at weapon stats and its stats in numbers, they don't refine their attention in game and out of game to that of it's competitors as well. We're dealing with a large group of ignorant PvP wannabe, high ego but low performance players, who see green on their screen and die, and then demand nerf. If Thorn was as OP as the hordes of this site say it is, than why don't I see 2.0+ K/D across the board for such weapon stat separation. Balance in matchmaking does not exist beyond a few top tier weapon in ANY competitive game. The sooner casuals who think they are experts in PvP understand that, the less the witchhunt for the cycle of nerf continues.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BHenCd2BWNQ Here you go m8

I've seen that video. It's full of bias, and therefore, not a reliable source.

Insulting people to make a point. How clever and original.

i didnt him die from thorn? all i saw was blink shotgunning and pulse rifle? it was all talk and no video proof.

Any opinions on no land beyond? I just started using it tonight to switch it up some and it's actually been pretty fun