Those guns aren't fun to use. It's like having a super all the time and there's no challenge. Also, k/d doesn't mean a thing in crucible if you play control at all. It doesn't take much to notice someone with a 17-2kd has only one or two captures. That's pretty cheap to and I don't see why people do it. I don't see how it can be fun to emulate a robot and camp for known head pop ups.

My main is either no land beyond, pradythes timepiece, with special weapon being pratorian foil, 50+ body shot per pellot or 67 per pellet if i got a kill is OP as hell, lets me one shot blade dancers and sunsingers through shields HUNTER MASTER RACE

None of those weapons and I'm better

No land beyond is a fun gun if u want to challenge ur self and it actually takes skill to learn how to use it

Bumo

Sounds like you're complaining go me. Honestly, adapt. Your problem is that you want others to use guns that aren't as effective in order to make your experience better. There will always be an "OP" gun, character, class, moveset, etc... what separates skilled players from scrubs is your ability to adapt and find counters. TLW is the most deadly gun in the entire game by far in the right hands, but distance yourself, land your shots, and you will win. I do think Thorn and TLW need some balancing, but until it happens, learn a new style or put in work until you have no problem with them. Edit: Ohyeah and before you assume anything, I use Hawkmoon and Hopscotch Pilgrim.

We all play pvp to win some times it does not work out that way but ever one going to use the guns that are the best in the game I know say nuff this are that were that got use look at autos

I don't use those weapons not to prove a point, I just don't like thorn or last word, I don't use felwinters because it's fire rate is god awful, I use no land beyond, the messenger or red death primarily in crucible doesn't matter which mode.. I also used to love auto rifles and hated using suros not just because it's op but I just didn't like it

I just play crucible for bounties don't give a rats ass about k/d ratio Hint folks you get nothing for it I get the same crappy guns for 2 kills as for 40 kills so who cares

Really... TWO threads of your dumb-ass insecurity-ridden manifesto ?!?! Like I said, think you should go find yourself another game or stick to PVE...

Using a particular gun doesn't determine skill. You're saying we should handicap ourselves in PvP by using crap weapons and risk losing. When I'm playing Iron Banner or Trials, I'd be an idiot to not be a sweaty tryhard by using a Thorn/Felwinters combo. Yes, these guns need to be nerfed but you're not bad for using it. A bad player would suck with these guns as well! An average player will do okay with them, a good player will destroy everyone with them. You sir, are an idiot.

I don't believe KD matters at all. If you get points for the team and help win the match you're good to me

All I read was blah blah blah. Your kd is horrible mate

Look, first off, you're a prick. Don't worry, I'm not going to say something rude like most people who are unjustly butthurt over you simply talking bad about thorn users. I sort of agree with you, actually. But I'll get into that shortly. Your immediate acceptance of, and follow-up disdain towards naysayers is completely unjustified when you drop derogatory words like "fags" in reference to a broad spectrum of players with only one thing as base commonality; their primary. Now, when kids attempt to use it simply because of what they hear about it being overpowered, and get whooped, and blame the other team for cheating, there's a problem. I appreciate that you have used it and still have greater preference for more entertaining weapons. I can appreciate that you have a strong basis for a solid opinion on it. I just feel like your attitude sucks, which, in and of itself, sucks, because you clearly put thought into this. I don't feel the thorn is as broken as you presume it to be, but it simply requires a stronger sense of defensive operation. Certainly, a full team of thorn users is guaranteed to be frustrating, and largely unreasonable. I would just love to see your solid opinion given a more appropriate medium. Please keep offering your opinion, a good foundation of experience provides for useful input on broken game mechanics.

Lol rags on thorn felwinters Uses tlw found verdict -blam!- off get good use a fusion rifle and scholar or messenger

Newb

I really don't care who has what kd because that's only partly indicative of skill but how can you tag on anyone with thorn when you have nearly 4k kills with TLW? That gun is a huge crutch and can out gun anything if you're good enough....I've been outgunned by it using thunderlord jolders hammer and corrective measure. The TTK with it can kill thorn user before they get a second shot off so if you're going to act high and mighty that you don't use certain guns then handicap yourself with no shotty, no exotics and blue weapons or less only in the iron banner Ps I have 100% crit kills and 1 kd on my nechrochasm :)

K let's be honest anyone who is -.5 is still going to be probably garbage. But anyone who is above .8 can still wreck. A lot of people forget that when you start playing crucible, no body is going to come out with a good KD for a while. It may take 3 months before you find playing style, by then you have a hard grind to bring back up to what your playing average now. I don't judge players based on regular crucible KD but I will one trials. Because anyone who steps in there should have the experience by now. As for the thorn users, they should try giving the Fatebringer a go, and see how many shots you miss with it that would of been hits with thorn, basically same recoil and fire rate. It for me is hell of lot easier to hit someone with the thorn then it is with any other hand canon in the game. If you judge someone based on there crucible KD I don't think that's accurate, cause you can never get a feel for which gun you like until you give it a few games. I test out all my guns in rumbles therefore my KD will not be good as to what it could be. I just don't get how people like using thorn. It's got mad aimbot and is not even fun to use. It requires less skill to use than any other gun In the game. The gun does all the work for them.

Bruh I have over 4,000

Check my gun stats and kdr. I can't believe you put yourself out there like that but props because the community is high and might and needs to get good. [spoiler]I'm not even sure if I'm serious.[/spoiler]

[quote][b]Let me start off by saying this post is not to complain and is meant to just be an opinion. If you disagree, i dont care. But be respectful about it.[/b] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I often get into conversations about crucible often. During so, people like to rag on me for my low K.D and because of my low K.D, I am deemed "insignificant" of sorts. Im here to tell you that if your reading this, I can give you one damn reason why im certainly better than 95% of you guys reading this. -Thorn -Vex -Suros Seem familiar? Those weapons are all either overpowered, or have been at some point. If you were to go to my act and check my grimoire, you will see that of these 3 weapons [b]combined[/b], i have 1504 kills. 119 With thorn. Most the others are from suros. Are you thinking about making a rage comment about how im wrong because my kd sucks and your kd is so good? think about your KD. Now count how many of the kills you have with those weapons. Almost all of you have 2,000+ kills with [b]JUST[/b] thorn. So yeah, you may have a 1.5 KD, but at least I can use weapons that take skill instead of hiding behind the legend of overpowered weapons that [b]carry[/b] me through pvp like you do. Ive learned, that if someone uses thorn, they will do good. I mean you just will. And the problem is, is that all these nooby thorn users use it for so long they get tricked into thinking they are [b]actually[/b] good at crucible, because the gun has been doing the killing for them for so long. And some of them even swear on their lives that chaining 2 headshots at any range with thorn takes more skill than the 4-5 average needed with scout rifles. or the 6 needed with red death! (based off of an actual argument) And when you take away thorn, they look like a newborn baby without milk. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So whats my point? My point is that this community needs to stop acting high and mighty because they can use the best weapon in the game and get kills with it. Of course your going to get kills. Its frekin thorn. Its just funny how you actually think your good because your loadout consists of: -Thorn -Shotgun (for 90% of you, its either a Felwinters or a Found Verdict) -Rocket launcher (anything with tracking or grenades and horse shoes) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wait, how did I possibly accurately guess a good half of you guys's loadouts? (at [b]MINIMUM[/b]) Because you forgot what a skill gun is. Heres a few exotics to try out. They are [b]fun[/b] and [u]not[/u] [b]effective[/b]. -No land beyond -Bad juju (which CAN be effective) -Universal remote -Queenbreakers bow If your loadout right now on the game consists of any of these guns, then obviously your a badass and are much better than those thorn noobs. and just so I can let you guys know im not TOO MUCH of a hypocrite, these are my guns that I use (for competitive play) Last word, Red death, Vision of Confluence, 55A ALL-FATE Found Verdict, Lord of Wolves, Patience & Time, Violator 12 The infinite theorem, (and some rocket launcher i cant remember the name of) [b]But I take pride that I just dont use a thorn and felwinters like other noobs do.[/b] Yeah, you can bag on me for still using things like last word, But im not exactly going to hop into trials of osiris against a full team of thorn fags and use No Land Beyond. Get me? Thanks for reading you sexy beast. Leave your thoughts below.[/quote] I respect a lot of what u say. But Bungie did explain before the game came out that guns will feel over powered so everyone could expect it. And you forgot to put Red Death;)

Deal with it