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Edited by c4sch2: 8/7/2014 4:24:41 PM
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c4sch2

Some guy at NeoGAF did the best defence of the no-MM policy of Raids

Here is the original post: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=123586157&postcount=1937 "I think some people need to take a step back here. There is nothing inherently wrong with having content in a game made for a specific kind of player, nor is it inherently wrong that that content is only accessible to the kind of player it is intended for. Bungie has made it clear that this Raid will be a hard, multi-hour event that requires communication and planning, and you might want to spread it out over multiple sessions. You will want to do that with a group of people dedicated to finishing the Raid; you don't want to do that with randoms, who may or may not have headsets, may or may not be willing to communicate, may or may not speak your language, may or may not have just jumped into the Raid to 'see what it is' with no intention of finishing it, may or may not be there intent on trolling the rest of you, may or may not just completely suck, may or may not simply drop out mid-game, etc. Maybe you want to play the Raid for two hours, but two of the others drop out after just one hour, how will you manage that? Not all content needs to be available to all players of all levels. If you are not willing or able to invest in getting a group of six people together ( and while there are things in Bungie's current way of doing this that need to be streamlined, that process of finding a group is nowhere near the massive undertaking some of you make it out to be ), then the Raid, from what we know of it at this moment, is simply not for you. That's fine. That's not elitism or not wanting you to play that content, it's just that that content was designed with another type of player in mind and matchmaking just wouldn't be a good fit for this specific kind of content. There are just so many frustrations that potentially arise from this type of content and matchmaking. You get matchmade with five other players that also use Arc-weapons? Good luck against this Arc-resistant boss! Oh, wait, Timmy has got to go for dinner, now you're down to five. Watch out John, there's a massive horde of enemies about to overwhelm you! Oh, well, John doesn't use his headset and can't hear us anyway. No, Emile, [i]je ne parle pas français[/i]. And on the technical side of things; how would the checkpoints even work? You get to a certain checkpoint and quit. Two days later, you want to pick up again, but the randoms you worked with earlier have progressed further or aren't online. Now the game would need to matchmake you with people looking for a match at the same time as you at the same checkpoint as you. That might lead to frustratingly long wait times, and all those new players have the chance of triggering one of the above frustrations again. You will need to set up communication again and establish whether they have a different approach than you, what gear they have, etc. That is not the experience Bungie wants you to have. "But Bungie should let us try it out for ourselves!" is also a statement I do not understand being made here. It's not as if Bungie just sat there and suddenly thought "well, let's just throw matchmaking out of the window" for no reason. They probably did not make this decision lightly. They had the Raid play-tested, and made decisions based on that. They are game developers making a game design decision, they have absolutely no obligation to offer you options that they do not deem to fit their game or the content within it. Bungie made this Raid and thus know it's contents better than anyone else. They had it play-tested and made game design decisions based on the information they gathered and the type of player they made the content for, and they are in their right to do so. [b]To be clear, I am in no way against adding matchmaking in some form or another, but the way some of your are demanding it be added to the game out of some misguided principle that all content should be easily accessible to all players, even those it is not intended for, is quite unreasonable. Bungie did not make this decision on a whim and there is nothing inherently wrong with having content designed for a certain type of player.[/b]" EDIT: Let's have a civil argument, please. EDIT2: Added space between paragraphs for readability and made it similar to the original post. Again, while I agree with this, [b]I DID NOT WROTE THIS.[/b]
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  • This guy is stupid. Now you have all the YT video walkthroughs, so people know what to do. The raid (normal) won't take you several hours. There are external internet sites like LFGdestiny where people can find groups. So why the hell, we don't have that feature IN THE GAME. Just add matchmaking with a good anti-afk system , and we good to go.
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    • 0
      Stenbox
      Stenbox

      Proud member of Destiny Addicts Alliance - old

      I bet the guy who wrote it has not even played Destiny end game content if he is talking about Arc resistant bosses. He clearly does not know how the elemental system in the game works; he also does not know that bosses do not have elemental shields in this game.
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      • I have to agree with this. Although it can become frustrating and time consuming over time in order to plan a raid and actually complete it, I would rather go through that prior to the raid than during. Yeah you can argue that people will do that during the raid even though it's been organized, but it's not as frustrating, I would think. I played a hard raid yesterday with 3 randoms. There were two that just didn't know shit. Kid kept yelling and laughing obnoxiously, and would keep dying. Eventually I told them all I had to take off. It's just not do-able when you have a team of idiots. This shit will happen regardless as some states. But I think it can be prevented if matchmaking is never implemented into the game. But Bungie does need to come up with a simpler way for us to find players. Something a bit more dedicated to Raids. Something for the serious players. Somewhere where we can post our stats, times in the raid, schedule/region etc. That'll make things much easier I believe.
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      • I don't understand why people are complaining. Personnally I received more message for joigning a raid that I actually want.
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      • didn't read. but I know your retarded because the part you did *write* isn't even proper English.
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      • WoW vanilla Naxxramas... Really any WoW raid up until the end of Wrath was only possible with coordination, timing, and attentiveness. Not every player raided and not every guild cleared the raid before the next launched. Looking For Raid mortally wounded WoW in my eyes, and it would not do any good in Destiny. If you want to find others for strikes and raids, try joining a clan or gaming community.
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        • I cant agree with this sentiment at all. The problems that are listed like people having to leave mid raid or not having a mic can all arise from raiding with clan members also. I think im fortunate because i found a clan of like minded people but judging by all the lfg posts on the forums people are implementing matchmaking on their own. I dont see why bungie cant come up with at least a lfg system in game or some type of clan support.
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        • This guy is arguing against random and blind matchmaking, which I can understand. I think what people really want is an in-game LFG system akin to what Blizzard was able to implement along with their first expansion, the Burning Crusade. Players could conceivably stand in the "social" area and visually see which people wanted to nightfall or raid, inspect their character to get an idea of what they're working with and jump in. All of this without having to leave the game, turning on your computer and deal with all that nonsense. You see the other player, they see you, and you play together.
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        • Edited by Stenbox: 11/5/2014 11:19:55 AM
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          Stenbox
          Stenbox

          Proud member of Destiny Addicts Alliance - old

          I did not have any friends to play Destiny with, but I have found plenty of nice people to play Raids with. I even get to pick the ones I like more. - Use Groups/Clans - http://destinylfg.net/ - Join large groups here which are for your platform (eg XO) and use the wall there to get instant invites for Raids or have yourself invited into raid groups missing a few people. #protip for XO: "message for invite". You can message a gamertag that is not in your friends list, but not invite him directly. BUT when someone messages you, you can go to that message and invite him from there. I repeat: "message for invite". Get out of your comfort zone and stop complaining. And if you are not using your mic, don't be offended when you get kicked. We had that guy in our raid team once, he was always in the wrong place and could not find his way to Templar so we had to do it with 5 people.
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        • Edited by Khonti: 8/8/2014 7:08:20 AM
          Logic on these forums is like water in the desert. Desperately needed, instantly refreshing and dangerously rare but usually you have to dig for it.
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          • When all the whiners come on here to complain about not having anyone to play "stoopid raids" with, they can all meet up and play together. Then they can scream in each others ear while they continuously die over and over 5 minutes into the raid. Problem solved.
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          • Damn, you nailed it. Bungie should post and reiterate the requirements needed to successfully do a Raid... Experienced team/communication/time/patience
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            • That emile like killed me 10/10
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            • After reading this I agree no match making. Seems there are many ways to find a group. One thing I want to try in the future is see how far I can get solo. Anyone else tried it?
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            • Bump
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            • Does anyone actually have a difficult time finding a raid party? Takes me 15 mins at the most. Each time I've jumped in I've either finished it or dropped out at Atheon (once). Hard mode is the only time it takes awhile to find good players and even that is pretty easy.
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            • The whole argument about matchmaking the raid content is a bit foolish, I agree that it shouldn't be a pug event. The problem I have, and I can empathise with a number of people here, is that getting 6 people to play with regularly enough can be a chore. I know there are forums here were you can join clans but this is a feature that should have been inherently part of the games design. Easy to accomplish on a PC, but not so much on the consoles. The tower needs to be transformed into a social hub. Players looking for groups should be able to start open groups or social groups where people looking for others doing those activities can join and start chatting. This could be done in a canteen for example. Having to go onto another platform to find players seems a bit daft. Surely it would make more sense doing it via an in-game hub? That way people can mark favorites and create there own groups that the game could pair you up with should everyone else be online. I enjoy the game but I do feel that the game does lack on the social aspect sometimes.
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            • Actually, they shouldn't have trophies for raids if they are going to lock a bunch of people out.
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              6 Replies
              • Raid MM, raid nerfing,free lootz for all, omg this game is boring is last.
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              • My question, for the people who seem to think the raids HAVE to have MM, would be: Suppose there was MM, yet the raid is as hard as advertised and you are never able to complete it without eventually finding a competent team anyway? Is it fine at that point, because you have the option of MM? Or is it still one part of the game being locked out to you because it is near impossible to do with a random squad?
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              • 0
                DawnBlue
                DawnBlue

                Whoom whoom - old

                Raid can go horribly wrong because MM group sucks? Those who use MM are willing to take the risk. That checkpoint thing is a real issue though, not just because of MM time viewpoint. [i]What if the raids are not linear and you can clear areas in different order?[/i] This means finding someone with a similar checkpoint would be just stupid. (Feel free to add this thought below the quote in OP if you wish) As always in MM threads, here's again my way to avoid the need of MM and allow people to still find players for raids. [spoiler]I think it would be nice if the game featured some sort of feature for finding groups for raids, strikes and nightfall missions. Maybe something like this - a Looking For Group board at the Tower: - Choose the mission and difficulty you want to engage (only those you meet the minimum requirements for are listed) - Leave a short message, so you can for example let others know your time limitations, e.g. "Can only do the raid for 3 hours" - Or [b]instead of the message above[/b], select tags to let others know of your available time, skill and whatnot [i](suggested by Bravely Default due to the possibility of abusing the short messages with profanity etc.)[/i] - After accepting, anyone can now see your listing and invite/message you from the board. You can also at any time redact your listing from it or join another group through the board, which automatically removes your listing.[/spoiler]
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              • some times i wonder how people dont even let an OPTION to be in place. i mean you can still plan out your raids with people you know. no one is forcing you to MM. If others fail... what is it to you? like does it ruin your expieriance? "people will cry about nefing the raids" its gonna happen anyway whether its MM or not. "they will make raids easier" Why would bungie do that? cuz Blizzard did it on WOW? Why should Bungie nerf it when its supose to be hard? "the loot will be more accessible to others" people want a balanced MP right? "not everyone is meant for raids" but they should at least be given a chance.
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                • This is great.
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                • That person deserves a cookie. And you too, OP, for re-posting this here. 100% agreed.
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                • So basically I cant have raids and I cant have 1-50.
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                • [quote]Match making leads to whining Whining leads to nerfing Nerfing leads to actually good players quitting[/quote] Why? Why would whining lead to nerfing? You're saying that Bungie can ignore the people that want Raid matchmaking, but they can't ignore the people that would want Raids nerfed?
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