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Balance

What seems overpowered? What needs to be buffed?

Edited by Gubzs: 8/7/2014 7:59:56 PM
18
5
Gubzs

I posted my Beta feedback in the weekly update, but I was told that I should repost it here.

Handcannons AND Pulse Rifles were fine

88

Handcannons were fine, Pulse Rifles were NOT

31

Pulse Rifles were fine, Handcannons were NOT

68

BOTH Pulse Rifles AND Handcannons sucked

256

My opinions on the beta were as follows. Ideally I'd hope Bungie would read my input, given that that's the purpose of a Beta. Realistically they probably won't, but I'll try to be helpful anyway. I originally posted this in the last weekly update, but I've been told to repost it here. Comment if you agree or disagree...or whatever suits you...this is gonna be long: [b]EDIT: Since the handcannon and pulse rifle debate is often hard to pin down, I included a poll about them above. Vote about which ones you think need to be improved, if either.[/b] CURRENT POLL STATS AS OF AUGUST 7th: Percentage that believe [u]Handcannons[/u] are underpowered: 313 of 426 votes - [b]73.47%[/b] - or 3 out of 4 people Percentage that believe [u]Pulse Rifles[/u] are underpowered: 275 of 426 votes - [b]64.55%[/b] - or 2 out of 3 people [b]PvE[/b] [u]PROS[/u] -The game in general was easily a 9.5/10. In terms of how much FUN this game is to play, it is completely unparalleled in my mind. This game is an utter joy to play, and continued to be, right up until I got kicked off 5 hours ago. -THANK YOU for not allowing interpersonal trade in Destiny. Trade makes loot less valuable to everyone, favors boring grinders, and makes 'trophy' items a joke. -It was incredible fun running around aimlessly just killing enemies in Old Russia, collecting loot, doing miniquests, and finding treasure. -The sparrow wins my 'most enjoyable vehicle to drive in any game ever' award. It was an absolute blast. -Each secondary weapon had a clear specific scenario for which it was to be used, and excelled when used correctly. -The variety of 'perks' on weapons and armor was more than I expected, and has left my head spinning with possibilities. -The strike that was available had a genuine skill requirement, something I very much appreciated. If you sucked, you died...a LOT. *cheering* -The autorifles, scout rifles, rocket launchers, fusion rifles, LMGs, and sniper rifles felt exceptionally balanced for PvE -Supers felt awesome. Everything about them was fun to use. [u]CONS[/u] (many of these are very minor things I just think could be tweaked) -Green engram drops were turning into white quality items at the cryptarch, perhaps this was because of the low level? It seemed both cruel and redundant given that white engrams already drop as white loot. I would also like to see blue and purple loot have its own colored sphere, perhaps it does, but I decoded a green engram and got a blue item several times, so I'm thoroughly confused. -The ammunition capacity for special weapons was too low, and the drop rate on the ammunition was too high. I felt like it could've easily been doubled and the drop rate halved. Many times I felt so wasteful leaving fusion rifle ammo on the ground that i'd just use my Nox Revus III for a while when it was less suited to the situation than my trusty Scout Rifle. -I felt like 4 rockets was also too small a number, several times I pulled out my rocket launcher and shot vandals just because I couldn't (in all good consciousness) leave a rocket or two on the ground. -Pulse Rifles were awful. The kick was ridiculous. It was better in literally every situation to just burst fire with an auto rifle. -Handcannons were even worse. I don't think I saw anyone use them seriously. The damage per second on handcannons was TERRIBLE, combined with an awful reload frequency AND speed AND accuracy AND range, they were not even a viable choice of weapon, in either PvP or PvE. They were basically an all-around inferior version of Scout Rifles...and trust me, I REALLY wanted to like them. -Shotguns could use a miiiiinor increase to effective range. There were very few situations wherein a fusion rifle was not preferable to a shotgun. Everyone seems to disagree with me on this however, I must have just had a bad shotgun. -The 'stop the target from reaching the checkpoints' events were nearly impossible. The enemies would sit around the spawn for a short while, and then just sprint off into the distance, leaving you with more time chasing than shooting, and would be gone before any lone player could even get bronze tier in many situations. -The spider tank legs shouldn't take LESS damage once they've been damaged, this almost felt like a bug, given that it was exactly half. [b]PVP[/b] [u]PROS[/u] -It was fun. Seriously fun. I loved every minute of it. I even enjoyed getting assblasted with nova bomb. The game felt solid, well made, and responsive. -The special ammo was common enough that if you wanted to go out of your way to get it, it would be there, but it was appropriately out of the way to acquire. -The heavy ammo system was WONDERFUL. I love the sharing system, and I like the spawn being announced to the combatants. -It rewarded skill without being too 'streaky'. The match was constantly being shaken up by supers and ammo/vehicle drops. I like that. -Snipers felt well balanced, a rare feat to be honest. -Fusion rifles were fun weapons that were just as good as the individual holding them. They were OP in the right hands, but the right hands were rare. If you sucked, your fusion rifle wasn't gonna kill anyone. Kudos for high skill ceilings, high skill ceilings are good. -The available gametype was a fun, unique spin on control gametypes, and I ESPECIALLY enjoyed Iron Banner. I played so much that I ended up with the legendary ship, and had to buy myself the long flowing cloak from Saladin. -The maps in general were just well made. The lines of sight were as good as I've come to expect from Bungie multiplayer, and the spawning system was nearly flawless... especially when compared to some other recent titles *heavy intentional coughing* [u]CONS[/u] (mostly balancing issues) -Scout Rifles felt extremely underwhelming at close-medium range, making them largely useful only at ranges where a sniper rifle would be viable. The DPS was just too low to keep up with autorifles, which were generally not overpowered, it felt more like everything else was UNDERpowered. -As in PvE, handcannons were absolutely useless and Pulse Rifles kicked too much. I saw 1 handcannon throughout the entire Beta in the crucible. I also saw a few brave guardians with pulse rifles, but the vast majority using them got thoroughly stomped. -Shotguns could use a boost to range, in most cases they did less than 20% of hp at as little as 8-10 feet of distance. As I've previously stated however, it seems that RNGesus did not favor me, and I just had the bad shotguns with the high fire rates. -I felt like it was too easy to be sniped out of a Pike, particularly from the side. [b]Little additions I would've like to have seen:[/b] - I don't believe that strength, intellect, or discipline should have hard caps. I think that the soft caps are enough. If you manage, somehow, to collect a strength gear set for your hunter, by God you should be able to throw a knife every 5 seconds. If perhaps that is too much, I think the cap should be increased a bit. I managed to exceed that cap for my Hunter's discipline at level 8 whilst still wearing white quality gloves. -The weapons/armor vendors in the tower sold junk, and I mean seriously junky junk. Perhaps they should be more like a gamble, where you pay them and receive any random weapon/armor piece, as though you had just gotten a drop in the wild. The cost should be appropriate, of course. -I would like for 'green' engrams to always be 'green' items, likewise for 'blue', 'purple', and 'yellow'. In addition, I think blue AND purple items should be discoverable from level 1, there's no sense in delaying the joy of finding a high quality fusion rifle until level 10. If a level 1 legendary is acquired, what's the harm? You have an excellent weapon for a few levels and then it's gone. DON'T STOMP ON MY DREAMS BUNGIE... (I'm fond of them) -I also felt like there was room for more types of weapons, perhaps in future expansions? Some examples... Primary: "sentinel beam" like laser weapons Special: slug shotguns Heavy: railguns ...anyway, I think that's it for now. I could've written a 20 pager for you, but I should stop before I hurt myself. Thank you for reading my giant post, you can post your feedback below, and if I agree, I'll add it to my master post here in the list below! [b]Ideas from other posts:[/b] -A map for explore mode (Pretty much everyone). I agree that this would be extremely helpful. I had far too much trouble finding The Rocketyard. - Item enchantments (Chino Gaming). This would be nice. Some method of applying additional hardware to a white item in order to transform it into a green item, or even further beyond that, such as 'reforging' a green item to have different properties. -Aiming down sights shouldn't immediately cancel airborne momentum (Schattenjäger). This was particularly a problem on the Venus crucible map. If you attempted to jump towards the island next to 'B', and tried to shoot while still in midair, you would fall to your death. This made the happy little island a deathtrap. -Vehicle Hijacking (Unholy Abyss). This would help, I'm not sure if this is the solution, but it's a start. I understand that this may be impossible at this point in development. -Sometimes the matchmaking system will split you up and make you fight against your friends (Jadguy). This does sound really irritating, Halo used to do this on occasion and it was incredibly frustrating. The purpose of partying up is to kick ass together, not be forced to kick eachother's asses and potentially start conflict.
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  • Hand cannons are a terrible idea in the Crucible, Pulse Rifles can work if you have the skill. They were all fine in fighting for the Vanguard. But in the Crucible, those auto rifles were kind of OP with their long range and unfair accuracy. Example: Shingen-C
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    • Most of my concerns are with pvp. After some thought I came to the conclusion that the hand cannons would be more useful if the put it back to the special weapon slot. Reason being,I don't know what Bungie could do to improve the HC for to be useful as a primary weapon. At least in the special weapon slot you could use it as a powerful side arm to finish enemies you've already caused some damage to using your primary but ran out of ammo while firing. Pulse rifles: In the beta I've seen damage outputs of 14%,15% and 20%...The 20% damage I saw once...could be a weapon damage upgrade,not sure. I think one way in making the pulse rifles more useful is if they increase damage output at 20%-25%. 25% being for the pulse rifle with the highest impact. Supercharge: I think Bungie should lower the rate in which you level up your supercharge or let the leveling up process cancel if you die before you're fully charged. Reason for this too much scrubs running around just using their supercharge for easy kills without even trying to use their gun...after all,this game is still concidered a fps.
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      • I agree with MOST of this nice feedback
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        • You drive a good point, I had a similar post talking about more they could do with the hand cannons
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        • You get a potato chip!
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          • Did you say you can share heavy ammo? I must have missed this. Please explain. Thanks
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            • Spawn system was flawless? As far as I know there isn't even a spawn system. It just spawns you in the same preset places and never regulates or moves you even if there are enemies near. I was constantly sniped instantly when spawning on shores of time due to campers in the cave.
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              • My he pulse rifle is amazing I live them
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              • I pretty much agree, but I think that the problem is that (of course I could be wrong, and I don't want to sound like I know everything either) again I think, that people still haven't realized how it really works, in my playtime, the pattern that always showed up was that the green drops, were encoded engrams, but on the other hand, white drops were gear drops, meaning that you wouldn't have to go to the cryptarch, as they were already plain old gear, and not an engram. Once again I could be wrong, but just wanted to share knowledge lol
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              • I agree with you about the kick on pulse rifles. I'm not a fan of using pulse rifles in games, but I didnt mind the ones in Destiny as much except for the kick. I spent more time trying to aim than shoot.
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              • Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssss
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              • Not bad. I agree with most of it, however I do have a few issues. First, the engrams. I feel like engrams were all meant to be a random item. That's the point. It gives a sense of suspense as you're going to the cryptarch to reveal your item. As such, I feel like they should have a single colour, so as to add to the mystery. I don't want to get a white engram and just know it's useless right away, I want it to have that possibility of being anything at all! Second, I agree that the primary weapons need balancing, however, as more of a halo fan, I feel thst the pulse rifles were about right, the handcannons were slightly underpowered, the scout was slightly overpowered, and a couple of the autos were just out of this world. I like to be able to react and have a chance if someone catches me by surprise from behind. That's just my preference because I hate feeling helpless (this also makes me want an easier way to tell if an enemy is supercharged). As for maps, I believe they should be included, but they should fill in as you explore, so as to keep that feeling of rediscovering what was lost. I believe that's all.
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                • Great post. First long post on this site that I was actually able to read through and agree with.
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                • Agree with 95% of what you've said...both pro and con. 1. The Engrams and the Cryptarch were a pain in the @ss. Not only did you sometimes bring him green engrams that turned into common items, you also sometimes BOUGHT green engrams that became green items. I understand that they were trying to make it a gamble to deal with him, but that's going too far. 2. Most people agree that the PR and HC's need a buff. 3. The "Eliminate the Target" bosses were so OP compared to the time they were on the field, that I stopped even going afer them unless there were a LOT of high-level players in the area. Otherwise it was just a waste of ammunition. Precious HEAVY ammunition. 4. I was probably one of those PR-weilding guardians you saw getting stomped in the Crucible. I went in expecting it to perform like the Hemlock-BFR from Titanfall...and got a VERY rude awakening. 5. It's easy to snipe you from a pike for a reason. To keep PvP from being a simple race to get to the vehicles. It's just one of the many ways that players on foot can keep you honest and looking over your shoulder when you're on it. 5. No maps for explore mode. Breaks the illusion that you are re-discovering and reclaiming territory that has been lost to centuries of a post-Collapse dark age. 6. A bullet is the best means of hijacking vehicles. Very easy to take control of it after you've shot the previous owner out of it.
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                • On PvE: Green engrams I sort of agree with, however they would become much too common Fusion Rifles are a one shot kill, they're gonna have a ton of recoil. Fusion rifles do kind of make shotguns pointless. (Not much can be done their though) Hand Cannons are headshot weapons two shot to the head kills, and they are extremely accurate, idk how you were playing them but they're as accurate as sniper rifles at short and medium ranges. Increasing damage would absolutely make them OP in the crucible, it's a three shot kill as is.
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                  1 Reply
                  • 1
                    T3CH54M4
                    T3CH54M4

                    510b2b4b - 7/27/2016 6:42:34 AM

                    [quote] [u]CONS[/u] (many of these are very minor things I just think could be tweaked) -Green engram drops were turning into white quality items at the cryptarch, perhaps this was because of the low level? It seemed both cruel and redundant given that white engrams already drop as white loot. I would also like to see blue and purple loot have its own colored sphere, perhaps it does, but I decoded a green engram and got a blue item several times, so I'm thoroughly confused. [/quote] Never noticed but good catch. [quote] -The ammunition capacity for special weapons was too low, and the drop rate on the ammunition was too high. I felt like it could've easily been doubled and the drop rate halved. Many times I felt so wasteful leaving fusion rifle ammo on the ground that i'd just use my Nox Revus III for a while when it was less suited to the situation than my trusty Scout Rifle. [/quote] You can wipe entire levels without special weapons. Dunno if doubling the capacity of special weapons would make anyone use them more. [quote] -I felt like 4 rockets was also too small a number, several times I pulled out my rocket launcher and shot vandals just because I couldn't (in all good consciousness) leave a rocket or two on the ground. [/quote] A rocket well used. Limited ammo capacity allow for gear to increase it. [quote] -Pulse Rifles were awful. The kick was ridiculous. It was better in literally every situation to just burst fire with an auto rifle. [/quote] I thought they were fine. Personal preference is suposse. [quote] -Handcannons were even worse. I don't think I saw anyone use them seriously. The damage per second on handcannons was TERRIBLE, combined with an awful reload frequency AND speed AND accuracy AND range, they were not even a viable choice of weapon, in either PvP or PvE. They were basically an all-around inferior version of Scout Rifles...and trust me, I REALLY wanted to like them. [/quote] Highly contested subject. I used them often. A few times in PvP. A decent weapon. [/quote] -Shotguns could use a miiiiinor increase to effective range. There were very few situations wherein a fusion rifle was not preferable to a shotgun. [/quote] PvE fusion rifle way to go. PvP shotgun wins the day. [/quote] -The 'stop the target from reaching the checkpoints' events were nearly impossible. The enemies would sit around the spawn for a short while, and then just sprint off into the distance, leaving you with more time chasing than shooting, and would be gone before any lone player could even get bronze tier in many situations. [/quote] Got a gold on it. So I have to disagree. [quote] -The spider tank legs shouldn't take LESS damage once they've been damaged, this almost felt like a bug, given that it was exactly half. [/quote] Pretty sure it was done to prevent ppl from just pick off 1 leg till it dies. [quote] -Scout Rifles felt extremely underwhelming at close-medium range, making them largely useful only at ranges where a sniper rifle would be viable. The DPS was just too low to keep up with autorifles, which were generally not overpowered, it felt more like everything else was UNDERpowered. [/quote] Never had a problem. So can't really discuss. [quote] -As in PvE, handcannons were absolutely useless and Pulse Rifles kicked too much. I saw 1 handcannon throughout the entire Beta in the crucible. I also saw a few brave guardians with pulse rifles, but the vast majority using them got thoroughly stomped. [/quote] Got shredded in a match by a hand cannon hunter (not the golden gun). Pulse rifles I saw about as man scout rifles. But yes auto rifles were more common. [quote] -Shotguns could use a boost to range, in most cases they did less than 20% of hp at as little as 8-10 feet of distance. [/quote] I thought it was fine. You shot then melee, most of time you would get the kill. [quote] -I felt like it was too easy to be sniped out of a Pike, particularly from the side. [/quote] Thank god. Those things are a pain. [quote] Little additions I would've like to have seen: - I don't believe that strength, intellect, or discipline should have hard caps. I think that the soft caps are enough. If you manage, somehow, to collect a strength gear set for your hunter, by God you should be able to throw a knife every 5 seconds. If perhaps that is too much, I think the cap should be increased a bit. I managed to exceed that cap for my Hunter's discipline at level 8 whilst still wearing white quality gloves. [/quote] Never ran into that situation so can't comment. [quote] -The weapons/armor vendors in the tower sold junk, and I mean seriously junky junk. Perhaps they should be more like a gamble, where you pay them and receive any random weapon/armor piece, as though you had just gotten a drop in the wild. The cost should be appropriate, of course. [/quote] I believe that was intentional so that you would have to complete quest and find gear in wild. [quote] -I also felt like there was room for more types of weapons, perhaps in future expansions? Some examples... Primary: "sentinel beam" like laser weapons Special: slug shotguns Heavy: railguns [/quote] Could be cool [quote] -Sometimes the matchmaking system will split you up and make you fight against your friends (Jadguy). This does sound really irritating, Halo used to do this on occasion and it was incredibly frustrating. The purpose of partying up is to kick ass together, not be forced to kick eachother's asses and potentially start conflict.[/quote] But I like teabagging buddies.
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                  • On Shotguns, I found a nifty shotgun that tightened it's spread when aiming down sight which gave me a considerable range buff. Other than that I wave my banner to see pulse rifles and hand cannons receive some justice, so I don't secretly feel bad for picking an inferior hand cannon so I can play how I'd like.
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                  • Edited by David Dunn: 8/3/2014 10:09:04 PM
                    Edit: Read your post. Generally agree with the stuff you are saying. Most people are with us on the Hand Cannon thing. I think the shotguns are perfect though. You should have gone with the one that has low rate of fire. It is essentially the Halo Shotgun. I would add some things to what you already wrote, most notably there is a lack of Options for the player. More controller layouts would be nice. And more than anything else: [b]•Option to disable aim assist. [/b] (Many gamers prefer not to use this type of aim assist) [b]•Separate slider for ADS sensitivity.[/b] (needed when you turn AA off.) [b]•Option to disable aim acceleration.[/b] (not the same thing as aim assist. makes your aiming slow.) [b] •Option to disable drift control [/b](same reason as above) [b]•Hitbox for AA can be smaller than hitbox for hitscan[/b] And who the hell uses[i] autolook centering[/i] anyways?
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