The reason that content is being withheld is not because of Bungie just deciding out of the blue to withhold it. It's being withheld because Sony paid a lot of money to Activision to withhold it. Activision is the company who has $500 million invested in Destiny. So Activision will make any marketing decisions it feels will help not only make that money back. But profit as well. If they can't even make their money back then Destiny will be called a failure. I figure they're gonna need to see $600+ million to call Destiny a success.

First of all, Activision did not invest $500,000,000 into Destiny. Urk even denied that one right here in a Bungie weekly update... http://www.bungie.net/7_Bungie-Weekly-Update---06272014/en/News/News?aid=11607 Secondly, I never accused Bungie of withholding anything. I simply explained the situation and gave an arguably similar example that I can't imagine would have been viewed as okay by anyone 13 years ago. Finally, you are correct. Activision was likely paid a vast sum of money by Sony to make the game "better" for the Playstation. I sure hope that sum of money was worth it in the end. There are a lot of people who truly feel as though they are being sold an inferior product simply because they're purchasing it for a system that may not be viewed by Activision, Bungie, or anyone else as a worthy console. That being said, if you think that withholding content from one platform for an entire year is sound marketing strategy for increasing sales on Activision's part... you'd have to be a fool. The best business strategy for Activision/Bungie would be to either release the exact same game on both consoles, or if exclusive content is a must, make a deal that provides exclusive content for both, which would breed competition between the two platforms. Imagine if all of the people who threaten not to purchase Destiny actually go through with it. Or perhaps they'll simply buy their copies of the game used instead? No, this happened because Sony wants Destiny to be superior on their platform, and they paid the money required to increase sales of their hardware. Many people have said it themselves, they've switched from their Xboxes to Playstations. The more consoles Sony sells, the more games people will buy in the future, which is good for Sony, and has absolutely nothing to do with what is best for the consumer. What some people, including Activision, apparently don't understand, is that this hurts their fans and community more than anything else, and it sets a tone for the future of video games. Many people have been preaching "video game doomsday" for a long time, predicting the greed of publishers will eventually win out over creating an enjoyable experience for the consumer. Now, in 2014, those predictions can be seen as reality everywhere. EA shoe-horning microtransactions into everything and pushing developers like DICE to rush games out early, even though they're unfinished. Activision obviously accepting bribes to release games with content removed for one platform and included in another, not to mention the fact that they've been selling the same CoD games annually for the last 6 years. Even PC hardware manufacturers have been accused of shady business practices, such as locking their competition out of the development process of games so that they can't release drivers in a timely fashion, which has made some games nearly unplayable with certain hardware configurations at launch. What I don't understand... is how anyone can not only refuse to acknowledge how much these practices hurt the consumer, but even go so far as to defend them.

They were speaking only in dev cost. The 500 mil was including marketing, which is what Activision handles. As far as shady business practices. Anything a company does to ensure they make a profit will be seen as shady by select consumers. Because god forbid a company makes money. Now I realize that some companies do engage in illegal and unethical practices. But this is hardly one of them. The amount of content being exclusive is trivial as is the exclusive content. A PvP map and one strike. Hardly anything to cry over as their will likely be several of each available to everyone. The armor and weapons will likely be useless by lvl4 and everyone in the PS community will be using them. Any sense of uniqueness for your guardian will be nonexistent. Besides by the time the Xbox community gets the gear they will likely be powered up versions as that community will be largely lvld up. The point being, y'all are taking what amounts to a scoop of ice cream and acting like y'all were denied an entire banana split. As for the beta? I can understand being a little miffed at that. What I don't understand is why nobody is looking to MS. From day one Sony has been proactive in ensuring it's users will be taken care of, as far as Destiny is concerned. Why isnt MS? They know first hand what Bungie is capable of doing. Where is MS? PS4 has a solid lead on Xb1. Where is MS? Sony is snagging all the exclusive glory. Where is MS? Why aren't in there making counter offers? Why are they not fighting this at all? They let Bungie go and now they are just pouting in the corner while another man runs off with their girl. Where is MS?

[quote]We’re pouring everything it takes into Destiny to ensure it meets our fans' expectations, and our own. Activision is, too. But the budget for Destiny, [b]including associated marketing costs[/b] and pizza Wednesdays, is nowhere near 500 million dollars.[/quote] As for the rest of your argument, you're assuming that the value of the content is low to justify it being withheld. I see people attempting this argument a lot. It fails to be valid when you realize that you're implying that if the content held more value, the outcry against it being withheld would be more reasonable. So basically, because you don't consider the content important, it's okay for them to withhold it. Where do you draw the line? How much content would have to be withheld before you would start to think that withholding it for the specified time period is wrong? Also, you have no idea whether or not Microsoft tried to secure exclusive content of their own, but Sony paid more and had them shut out. That's speculation, of course, but no more speculation that the scenario you've proposed. At the end of the day, it's up to the publisher, and yes, even the developer of a game to make sure that anyone purchasing their games is able to maintain a reasonable expectation that they are receiving a complete product in a timely fashion.

It is 500 million. You seem to forget that this is a 10 year franchise being built. there will be more games than just Destiny 1.

You are getting a complete product. For all you know PS players are getting that content early whereas Xbox players are getting it the actual time it was meant to be made available. The importance of the content is an opinion. It's trivial to me. Earth, the moon, Mars, and Venus will be im the game from the get go. Each planet will have multiple Strikes and PvP Maps. Let's say 3 each. That's twelve. They get one extra Strike. Giving them 13. One extra that is likely being given early. This is not content that is being made just for them. If that were the case then I'd say you have a decent argument. They are just getting some stuff early. It's not the end of the world. And its not like there isnt going to be plenty to. So this whole " we aren't going to a complete game" seems funny. Nothing's being withheld and they aren't getting anything you won't get. Here again, it's all opinion. I don't think the content is meaningful in any way. It's a gesture and nothing more. I don't understand why everyone thinks its a personal attack against y'all. They're throwing a bone to PS players ans telling them to fetch. And they are following like good little puppies. Xbox users are the old faithful houndogs who don't need the bone because the loving scratch behind the ear is more meaningful, and we will get that scratch regardless. This is such a big game that will have tons to do and see. These sprinklings to PS players is barely a scratch on the surface.

You don't know any of that any more than the opposite argument. Also, you're forgetting the fact that Xbox players are waiting a year for it. A [b][u][i]year[/i][/u][/b]. It's not as if it were exclusive for a week or a month. A year... it may as well be permanently exclusive with that time frame. But you're right. It's your opinion that it doesn't matter. Stop trying to convince me or anyone else that we should share that opinion.

I felt much the same way when I learned that Sucker Punch was working on a brand new IP and that it would be exclusive to the Xbox. Now I could've cried foul and at first I wanted to. They are my Bungie. Instead, I went in to work and asked for overtime. For months I grabbed all the OT I could. I came in on a wknds. And MS dropping the price helped out a bit to. But, now I have an Xb1. Now I'll be able to play this new IP from one of my favorite devs. I was proactive. Complaining will change nothing. Contracts have already been signed. The fact that Destiny would favor the PS4 is old news. If it's that big an issue be proactive. Either get a PS4 or don't buy the game.

"Either get a PS4 or don't buy the game... but for the love of God, don't you dare think that it's wrong..."

If you tthink it's wrong don't buy it. Because once you make the purchase you are validating that practice. Youre telling them youre mad about it but youre still going to hand your money over to them. So where is their incentive to stop? I work with a guy who sold his Xbox over the whole Bungie, MS ordeal. He didn't like MS because he thought they were dissing Bungie. That's conviction. You lack conviction because youre preaching about shady, unethical practices. Yet you will still hand over your money with a smile on your face. So you come off as a jealous, entitled, whiner. If you deeply believe what they are doing is wrong. Then put some conviction behind your words. I mean really, if the game experience is going to be ruined because of this then why buy it. Likewise, if the experience is not going to be ruined, then whats the problem? You don't even know if that content is going to be any good. I think it would be hilarious if the forums filled up about how mediocre the maps were. Or that people were ditching their gear by lvl 2. What would all amount to then? If youre going to complain at least wait and see if the content is even worth complaining about.

lol more baseless, biased assumptions...

How am I biased? I own both consoles. But you go ahead with your quest to stop the bad corporation by handing over your money.

It's almost like you have no idea that the money from purchasing a used game never finds its way to publishers...

Then why the hell are you bitching about exclusive content? If youre willing to wait for a used copy, but you can't wait for a couple of maps and some starter gear? Really? Anyway, I'll be having fun from the get go. On both consoles. XB1 for PvP as most of friends on XB are more interested in the Crucible. And PS4 for PvE and strikes as my PS friends lean more that direction. I learned a long time ago the true winner in a console war is the guy with all the consoles. See you starside.

Because I know for a fact I won't have to wait a year to buy a used copy. Look, I have nothing against you personally. I'm tired of this crap in the games industry. There have actually been several games over the last few years that I haven't purchased because of stupid decisions made by the companies who make and produce them. I don't buy Ubisoft games anymore. I never bought an Xbox One. I finally learned my lesson with EA and won't be purchasing any more of their games... The problem is... it does nothing. You get the personal satisfaction of knowing that you haven't purchased something you think should have been handled differently, but that's all it is. The publishers don't even notice what you've done, it's so insignificant. They barely even notice the copies they [i]do[/i] sell. I'm bitching about exclusive content because I think it's wrong to expect anyone to pay full price for something that won't be as complete as a version released to someone else for the same price. Timed exclusives are one thing, but if you have to wait over a year... you may as well not even bother releasing it at all. You can disagree. That's fine... but if everyone didn't care enough to speak out when they don't approve of something, then nothing would ever change on this planet. I'm sure Destiny will be an awesome game at the end of the day. I'm looking forward to playing it. I hope you enjoy it too. But I won't stop sharing my opinion that withholding content for over a year is wrong... no matter how much I enjoy the 90%, 95%, or 99% that I do get to play on release.

You get 100% of the game itself on any platform. This extra stuff is just that, extra.

You call it whatever you want. It's part of the game. Not including it for any duration of time means leaving out that part of the game. It's not 100% It won't be 100% until that content is later released for the platforms that don't have it. Just a question... how much content would have to be withheld before the game would cease to be 100% in your opinion?

Let me give you a good example. In Mass Effect 3 there was day one dlc which literally cut an entire character out of the same and they made you buy him if you didn't get the collectors edition. That is cutting from the finished game. Extra guns and armor is cutting from the game. Hell the only thing remotely close to what you are speaking about is not getting the Mars strike, but even then that's pretty much the same as a pre-order dlc mission that takes five minutes to beat.

Implying I supported those decisions any more than I support this one... So you're saying it's OK for a developer/publisher to cut content from the game and give it to someone else, or even worse, make you pay extra for it when it should be in there to begin with. Glad we got that sorted out. Oh, and it's not just a strike. There's a multiplayer map as well. Also, 3 upgraded ships, which we have no idea how powerful those may be. The thing is, anyone who tries to play it down as "oh well those weapons will be useless by level 3" or "oh well that strike mission is probably only 10 minutes long anyway" or "oh well those extra ship options will probably hardly get used by anyone" or "oh well that multiplayer map will probably suck"... all of the people who use those arguments to try to tell people they shouldn't be upset about the decision are implying that if the content were larger... or took more time to complete... or if the weapons were more powerful, then it would actually matter. What if those weapons were level 20? What if they're end-game? What if that multiplayer map is the best one available? What if that strike mission is one of the most interesting or actually ends up being one of the longer ones and has unique enemies or challenges or story elements that only happen during that strike mission? Would all of us "whiners" have a legitimate complaint then? Or would you still say we're getting "100% of a game" on release?

I don't honestly know where to start with this. You clearly didn't read my post, since you start off by saying that i'm giving the thumbs up to cutting out game content, when I was very clearly giving you an example of what cutting content from a game really looks like. Other games give you dlc maps as well, but that doesn't affect the multiplayer itself, honestly I don't ever pay for DLC maps and just use the ones given to me (which generally are enough for me for pvp purposes). All the ship changes are aesthetic changes only, you don't get modes where you fly around a shoot things. Strikes aren't story missions. Story missions are clearly labeled. Not once did I say any of these things should be discounted as "sucking" or so you state it, you are using your own rhetoric there. Bungie explicitly stated that all of the cool loot and gear you get is supposed to be earned, not handed to you. No game company has ever given out free end game gear/weapons. Also never called you a "whiner". Again that's your words, not mine and the fact you quoted it gives the reader the assumption that I actually said that, which I clearly didn't. I can tell you are obviously upset by all this, but you shouldn't be taking it out on other members of the community here ok? It's simply disrespectful and not very mature. I'm all for debating topics, like this, but please keep it civil and with your facts in line.

First of all, you're the one that started this conversation, not me. I was replying to someone else entirely when you decided to reply to a comment that was completely unrelated to you. Not once have I been disrespectful to you. If I came off that way, it wasn't my intention... though I guess an "I'm sorry you feel that way" is in order. Any and all rhetoric used is not meant to be related directly to you. I don't know whether you've used any of those terms or words on other parts of the forum in other discussions, but any quotations were merely used for emphasis. Also, I started that paragraph about the extra content with "anyone who tries to play it down...", which I thought would be enough to point out that I was listing common counter-arguments and not directly speaking about specific thoughts you've put to keyboard in this conversation. If I wanted to quote you, I would have put your words in a quote box. Like so... [quote]I don't honestly know where to start with this. You clearly didn't read my post, since you start off by saying that i'm giving the thumbs up to cutting out game content, when I was very clearly giving you an example of what cutting content from a game really looks like.[/quote] The part of my post you're speaking about was intended to be sarcastic. I'm well aware of how difficult it can be to detect sarcasm in text, though. As for the rest of that... if you didn't get that I was listing examples of ways the content could be inflated as a way of making a point, that's your fault, not mine. "What if" are the words that usually make such forms of argument easy to identify. Finally, you're still doing exactly what I was trying to make a point of. You're defending the decision to withhold the content by arguing that the content is meaningless. Whether or not you personally consider the content meaningless is completely irrelevant. What you're saying by championing the "I don't care" argument, is that you're okay with them withholding content from the game from certain players, as long as you, personally, don't care about the content withheld. The question is, how much content would have to be withheld before you would cry foul about it? (That was rhetorical, by the way.) The fact is, the content would be in the game for everyone on day one had there not been a deal to withhold such content in the first place. If you don't think it matters that some people who paid for the game may have to wait up to a year before finally having a complete product that others have had since the beginning, that's your opinion, and while it's valid, I don't agree with it. Just don't try to tell me my opinion on the subject is wrong or otherwise out of proportion.

The problem with your responses is that you gave generalized responses to things I never stated. However you asked me to be specific and I was. Next time to debate me, please debate me and not the forum trolls, have a good day. Be Brave

I didn't ask you to be specific to anything, and I did, in fact, give answers to your arguments. Your entire argument is based on the idea that the content is insignificant and doesn't matter. I addressed that suggestion by pointing out that whether or not you, personally, think the content withheld adds value to the game or not doesn't change the fact that it is content that will be withheld from the game. This means that the game will be less than 100% complete for some players on release. You gave other examples of companies that have done this. I claimed those events irrelevant, though equally bad. The idea that just because another company does it, I shouldn't complain about this one, again, just because you don't think the content being withheld this time is worth the trouble, is flawed. I've directly "debated" you on every single point, while giving examples of similar arguments, and countered those as well. You've either not read my posts completely, didn't understand them, or you don't actually know what it means to debate someone. It seems very clear to me that you have completely missed the point of everything that I've said. I'm sorry if any of it went over your head, but perhaps next time, you shouldn't choose to involve yourself in conversations that didn't include you in the first place.