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Edited by Helveck: 7/8/2014 1:57:19 PM
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Helveck

What's All This About Fairness?

I quite honestly do not expect this thread to change too many opinions. In fact, I could very well be wasting a good amount of my own time typing this thread out for no reason at all. But maybe, just maybe it's the part of me that believes at least some of you might begin to realize the reality and truth of what I'm about to discuss, and for me, that's good enough reason. I've been a part of this Community since June 2002. That is when I came to own my first copy of Halo: Combat Evolved. That is when I took interest in the developer known as Bungie, and since then I've continued to type in the same URL on a frequent basis to visit the same site, for the same purpose. Community. Yes, I came for the games, but stayed for the Community. Over the years I have on several occasions discussed a reoccurring activity that unfortunately will persistently exist in our world, just as much as it will exist here on Bungie.net. That my friends, is what I like to refer to as petty arguing and pointless bickering. It makes for nasty and unpleasant conversation that always results in accomplishing one thing: Nothing. Pretty rewarding, eh? I mean, here we are at a very important time in our Community. We sit on the precipice of Bungie's next big title that we all our anxiously awaiting just as much as they are anxious to put their newest creation in our hands. All of these new things before us, coupled with a nerdy anticipation to experience something fresh and exciting that is just ahead us of us now, and yet all some of us want to do is complain and argue. "It isn't fair." "Bungie is betraying us." "Bungie owes it's REAL fans." These are things I've similarly read before, and especially since Destiny was announced to be multi-platform with the addition of offering PlayStation users a little something more. Before I continue, let me be entirely clear... I am ALL for expressing your displeasure or opinion with something. This is a forum, after all. A place where you can discuss your likes and dislikes, opinions, thoughts and ideas, creations, whatever you like. This is a huge part of what makes us a Community. This is what makes us unique. We interact and build relations with each other. Some of us over a stretch of time even become close friends with one another. This whole site is one giant social experience that is designed to bring people together over their passion for games. But obviously, the internet and its users are far from perfect. We sometimes decide to reinforce our own opinions by masking them as fact, and when that begins to fail we decide to attack our fellow Community member in a last ditch effort to make ourselves appear superior, believing that we've left our foolish ego somewhat intact. It seems this form of thinking has become even more popular as of late, with people persistently voicing their distaste for Bungie's marketing plan and their supposed "favoring" of the PS4 user base. Well, some might call it unfair, or they might accuse another side of being favored, but the truth is... None of this is true. At least, not in the way it's that its being made out to appear. Let's do a simple word equation, shall we? Bungie is a company that has developed many games. Companies seek to create a product that will turn a profit, in order for them to grow and succeed. Many consumers purchased this product, and in return received a game that they enjoyed for many years. Nowhere during any these transactions did Bungie sell to any consumer some intangible "loyalty" pass that would reserve future entitlements of any kind. Bungie is a privately owned company that is free to do as it pleases. This means, their decision to provide one type of consumer with something as a "bonus" is not something that should be considered "unfair". It simply, is. These are truths that I believe a LOT of us our forgetting here. This is why I wonder why so many people continue to argue back and forth between what is fair and unfair and why Xbox users are supposedly not being treated properly. I was an Xbox user for many years, and I paid for every single Halo game as well as any add-ons. Yet I have not convinced myself nor was I filled with any delusions that this had somehow earned me anything more that what I received for what I had paid for. Why do we feel so entitled? Has anyone bothered to ask that? What have we done personally to deserve anything more than the product that we paid for? Then let's take it one step further... If a member believes he or she is being treated unfairly by not being given the same treatment as a PS user, why resort to belittling Bungie as well as PS4 users? Are you so frustrated that you can't articulate anything beyond a childish rage-fit? How does that help you reinforce your point? That's right, it doesn't. And to PS users... You're being given something extra, or at least the opportunity to have something extra. That's cool! But why rub it in to the faces of people that don't have that opportunity? How do you think that makes you look? Do you think just because they play a different console that they are intellectually inferior? Do you know how ridiculous you sound? Do you see the reoccurring theme yet? There's no need for any of this. Bungie has offered something extra to PS users, likely to help create just a bit more of draw since this is a whole new world for them. It is crucial for their marketing to be attractive since they're now appealing to an entirely new population of gamers. As for Xbox users... We already know how incredible Bungie games are. We've been happily playing them since 2001, and PS users are just showing up late to the party, so it's time for them to play catch-up. When you stop and breakdown how unnecessary all of this bantering is, it makes it seem laughable that people would waste their time and energy fighting over something so insignificant. Earlier in this post I explained my fondness for this place, and the Community as a whole. It is for this reason why sometimes I feel obligated to post things such as this. It is simply my wish for people to enjoy this place for what it is without pitting themselves against one another, and to enjoy the interactions and company of others that have all come here for the same reason. We're here for our passion of gaming and to have a hell of a lot fun. Most importantly though, at the end of the day we're all on the same team, Community.
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  • What's fascinating to me is that this is happening with Destiny, but not with other games that offer timed exclusives on one console or the other. As many like to point out, there are few complaints when CoD provides exclusives to Xbox, so why is this different? I bet it comes down to the nature of the unique relationship between Bungie and its fans. The one common point to all the posts is how personally they are taking this-- a stab in the back, a slap in the face. And I don't think you'd get the same reaction if this was CoD or Far Cry or Borderlands or whatever. So yes, people are acting entitled, because they feel they have developed a personal relationship with the company. I don't think there's any way Activision or Bungie get to come out of this looking good. There are only two possibilities: 1. The backlash was not anticipated, in which case they failed to understand Bungie's relationship with its fans, or 2. The backlash was anticipated but the decision was made to proceed regardless, in which case they are guilty of taking Bungie's existing customer base for granted, just as the detractors claim
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    • I just think most of this comes down to the lack of communication. I think Bungie has done a terrible job giving us info. This is probably by design so people will lean in towards the PS but still that is probably the biggest issue I've had with all this.
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    • Advice... Interesting but really long.
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    • I agree with you and would say if there were to be justice done and fairness to all there would be no exclusive games no exclusive content. Every game would come out for every console all content would be delivered at same time for same price. Let's face it though as long as the owners can make more money (by doing this or that) they will. I'm a gamer, I own a ps4, my ps4 is better than an xbox one only because its (my prefferance). No one would admit their prefferance is inferior and that's why everyone argues. NOTICE: I said I am a gamer. Not I am a ps4 user. Ps4, xbox, PC, nes I don't care what you got but if you got info that can help me get better or further in a game I love to play I'll share what I know too. That's a community. (Team work will prevail)
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    • Who has time to read that
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    • It's just all about the money
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    • Edited by DMHCook: 7/8/2014 5:22:27 PM
      But I'm the #1 son. Really though, completely agreed. My only comment on the beta was that I wish it lasted a bit longer because currently I won't even be able to play 1 second of it as I'll be out of town for it's entirety. But, that's just bad luck on my part :P All the rage filled posts aren't going anywhere, as Activision is really the one making the console exclusive decisions more than likely, and still the point stands, it's a business, you're not entitled to anything. Think about the whole ridiculous scenario: 1. Spend hard earned money and buy a game. 2. Really enjoy the game, and feel you got your monies worth, so you check out the company that made it. 3. You find out the company is making a game for a console you don't own. 4. [b]RAGE[/b] because they are being "shitty" to their loyal fans. At what point does this process make sense?
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      1 Reply
      • Bungie has always been a part of their own fan community, so what bothers me about this, is that they have totally ignored this issue. If they had come out and said, "We are catering to PS to help build a community on this new system". I'd be totally OK with it. I'd probably even feel responsible to welcome these new recruits. Instead, Xboners are missing out on things, and Bungie has nothing to say about it. Basically, we aren't taking one for the team. We just taking one and we have no idea why.
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        • Whatevs. Bungie aren't the only ones who do this sort of thing. Ubisoft gives PS exclusive betas and missions for gods sake. Welcome to the game industry ladies and gentlemen.
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        • Hey guys! Just got back from being 6 months in the future. Destiny's a blast. Nobody remembers any of this beta nonsense ever happened, but the forums are still generally a mess. *shrug* Oh, the times they're a'changin. CHEERS!
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        • I think there's always been some entitlement issues in the community and that is an understatement. We are indeed one community, but this issue of feeling entitled often gets in the way of that.
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          • OMG first I am a play station player I've never played Halo 1,2,3,4,ODSt,Reach,Spartan Assault etc.. Second as a PlayStation owner I want be playing Halo anniversary or Halo 5 Guardians. And last destiny is not Halo so stop being greedy. For once let us enjoy bungie
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            • i agree community well written
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            • It breaks my heart knowing people will find a way to rant about this
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            • Edited by NARNIAPENGUIN: 7/12/2014 5:26:32 PM
              I'm a playstation gamer through and through. I love Sony and have had a lot of bad experiences with Microsoft and their customer service. But guess what one of my favorite franchises of all time is. Halo. Point is, I play for the games, not the console. So all the arguing is stupid and pointless.
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            • I'm a ps4 gamer. I really don't like the idea of the exclusives but judging from most reactions from the Xbox fan base I really don't feel that sympathetic anymore.
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            • I don't think there's a single thing you said that I don't agree with. I can understand why XBox users are upset and frustrated, I'd probably be a little crushed too, but lashing out isn't going to solve it, especially when Activision is most likely calling the shots when it comes to marketing. Bungie is the face of Destiny, but they're not responsible for everything that happens. Tearing apart other community members and Bungie isn't going to solve anything, especially when none of that frustration is even being channeled at the right people.
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              • Edited by Caayn: 7/11/2014 9:58:45 AM
                I like Bungie, I do. But that doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to criticize their products. It's annoying to see that even you mark people who want equal treatment with the "entitled" stamp. I don't want more content than the other platform, I don't want a preferential treatment, all I want is for the entire community to enjoy the same game, the same content. I find it sad that people are defending the practice of withholding content from part of the community, it's sad that we've come so far, it's sad that people are getting attacked because they want to be treated the same as the rest of the community.
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                • I don't know... I wouldn't consider wanting an equal amount of content for an equal amount of money to be a reflection of "entitlement". Imagine if Halo wasn't a console exclusive. It was also released on the Playstation 2. People purchasing the game for the Playstation 2 would still pay $50 for their game (hehe, it's weird remembering games used to cost $50 in 2001...). Now, even though PS2 and Xbox owners were both able to purchase the game, and they both paid $50, imagine if Xbox owners were getting "timed exclusivity" of the M6D Pistol, the Ghost, Blood Gulch, and the ability to play through The Maw in co-op. Then imagine that content wouldn't be released until the following year on the Playstation 2. If that had happened, do you not think Playstation 2 players who were excited to play Halo would have had an argument that they were being treated unfairly? That's essentially what's happening with Destiny.
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                  • I guess us PS4 users never felt the power of Bungie, maybe that's the reason we brag...
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                    • Fine, I agree. But I don't have to be happy about it, right?
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                    • You they're far and few but whenever I see a post like this it makes me all fuzzy inside. I won't lie, I'm still, and probably will continue to be miffed about this whole content exclusivity and such. But at the end I think everyone should remember that it's not the Playstation gamers who are to blame here. Why should they be? Because they chose a different console than I did? Well unless they have ESP that's really nothing to be mad at them about. Should Bungie be blamed as well? Probably, but it's clear they're set in their ways. Activision? Well given how their business model works yeah. And Sony? ....I'll keep that one to myself. But really at the end the question everyone should be asking is, "Are you going to have fun with Destiny?" So long as the answer is "Yes." then I think I'll live with the way things are. I just hope that everything simmers down a bit after the beta is over. (And it will, we've all seen the trends on this site.)
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                    • 1
                      Makeshyft
                      Makeshyft

                      Currently nerfing: SIVA infections - 7/22/2016 5:40:08 PM

                      *throws out soapbox* As a 360 user turned to the PS4, I'm excited and grateful for the benefits BUNGiE has chosen to bless us with. I'm saddened that I'll be separated from a portion of the B.net since there's no cross-platform play. I love my Xbrothers as much as I love my Sonyboys. I look forward to the day we all can enjoy Destiny in it's entirety. On that day, the long Dark will truly be over. We will be one again. Forward to Legend. I like you Helveck. I also like Dragons. We have much in common.
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                    • 0
                      Extremely well put. Couldn't have said it better myself. It's a two way street, and both sides of the "console war" have given each other a hard time, about everything. Bungie gave me 10 years of Halo, and im thankful enough for that. It's only fair that Bungie introduces themselves to a whole new community. I'll be playing Destiny on the One, and Ps4 players will be playing it on Ps4. Plain and simple. They only get timed exclusives, so I'll be playing those eventually too. (p.s. To those complaining about not getting the beta early, I know, it sucks. But hey, Destiny is out in only 2 months :) )
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                    • 1
                      dmg04
                      dmg04

                      See you Starside. - old

                      I like you, Helveck.
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                      • YES
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