originally posted in:Secular Sevens
[quote]-Randomness does not exist[/quote]
It exists but it's not be as random as we think. All random number generators in computers have a system to come up with a number. And all randomness in nature is caused by something(s). [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory]There is always a method to the madness.[/url]
[quote]-It is not possible to control others[/quote]
False. You can't have 100% control over someone. People will always be unpredictable to some degree but you can definitely brainwash the shit out of someone.
[quote]-It is not possible to influence others[/quote]
[url=http://www.nndb.com/people/197/000025122/ahitler.jpg]About that...[/url]
[quote]-A person defines his/her environment, while simultaneously, the environment defines the person[/quote]
True but it's mostly the latter of the two.
[quote]-No person can know all information[/quote]
That's pretty obvious. Our brain has a limited space just like a hard drive does. We can't store every digit in [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grahams_number]Graham's number[/url] in our brain. If our brain could do that it would have to be so dense that it would create a black hole.
English
-
[quote]All random number generators in computers have a system to come up with a number.[/quote]Just wanted to chime in on this since it's something I know a little about. There are roughly three classes of random number generators in computing (that I would group them into). You have: 1. The run-of-the-mill random number generator functions like, C++'s rand(), Javascript's Math.rand(), PHP's rand(), and so on that are good enough for basic random number generation. They are, however, not good enough - not random enough - for security related purposes because they can be predicted. 2. Cryptographically Secure Pseudo Random Number Generators (CSPRNGs, like [url=http://php.net/openssl_random_pseudo_bytes]openssl_random_pseudo_bytes[/url], [url=http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.security.cryptography.rngcryptoserviceprovider.aspx]RNGCryptoServiceProvider[/url]) are another step up on and are used for security related purposes (ie. generating encryption keys). However, they are not truly random, hence the reason they're referred to as pseudo random. 3. So-called [i]Truly[/i] Random number generators or generation techniques that use entropy gathered from [url=http://www.random.org/]the atmosphere[/url], [url=http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/random-number-generator]the user (ie. mouse movements)[/url], and other [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_%28computing%29#Potential_sources]hardware sources[/url]. With that in mind, I think it's really dependent on the context in which something is random - a perception of randomness. For the purposes of computing, a "guess the number game" that uses a basic random function is [i]random enough[/i] for the player. Similarly, a CSPRNG for cryptography is also [i]random enough[/i]. So (and just throwing this out there since what this is originally about isn't really my domain) perhaps the idea of randomness could also be explored psychologically as well.
-
[quote]And all randomness in nature is caused by something(s). [/quote] You mean by variables that can more completely characterise the system? Because, if so, no, that doesn't seem to be the case.
-
[quote]There is always a method to the madness.[/quote] erm, chaos states that [i]unpredictability will [b]always[/b] be present...[/i] unless you're willing to go into the whole "legit randomness vs. unpredictability" thing, chaos theory supports hurtful 100%.
-
[quote]chaos states that [i]unpredictability will [b]always[/b] be present...[/i][/quote] But it can be predicted if you have [b]ALL[/b] the variables. There is however no way for us humans to predict for example next months weather accurately because there are so many things that can change the weather and it's impossible to keep track of all of those things.
-
[quote]But it can be predicted if you have ALL the variables.[/quote] except you don't, can't, and never will. chaos predicates itself on the fact that there is never predictability due to impossible to avoid variations in your initial conditioning. even in deterministic scenarios, you're going to end up with ridiculous variations. just take a look at a gaspard-rice system or something [quote]There is however no way for us humans to predict for example next months weather accurately because there are so many things that can change the weather and it's impossible to keep track of all of those things.[/quote] indeed.
-
[quote]except you don't, can't, and never will. chaos predicates itself on the fact that there is never predictability due to impossible to avoid variations in your initial conditioning.[/quote] It can theoretically be predicted if you have every single variable (which we will never have) and if we did we would end up with an almost infinite amount of possible outcomes. One of those would be correct. So it can be predicted in theory, but not in reality.
-
ah, now i see your point. my apologies for the confusion!