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Talk about games other than Destiny. We don't mind.

Edited by mRNA: 6/12/2013 8:59:39 PM
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mRNA

A Sensible Post Regarding the PS4

I encourage those of you of #gaming debating the PS4 vs Xbox One to read this post that was written by a Redditor: [quote] I personally find some of the arguments against the X1 hilarious. Yes, the requirement for being online to play is bad. You should dislike that. But people then go on tangents about how 'the hardware sucks compared to the PS4', etc. Let me start off by saying that I am a professional game developer with quite a bit of console experience. Most of the people attacking the X1's hardware specifications have absolutely no knowledge of what they're talking about. Hardware-wise, the X1 and the PS4 are quite similar. The largest difference that stands out to me is that the PS4 uses GDDR5 whilst the X1 uses DDR3. Many of the rants I've seen have showcased this as 'evidence' that the PS4 is superior. I find this funny, since to me it showcases that they don't know what GDDR5 is. GDDR5 is Graphics RAM. The main distinction is that GDDR5 has much higher bandwidth than DDR3 (as that is needed on graphics cards due to large textures and framebuffers needing to be copied), but this comes at a price: GDDR5 also has far higher latency than DDR3. Rambus' RDRAM suffered back in the early 2000's from the same thing - high bandwidth, high latency compared to DDR. It lost that war. I worry that Sony is making another misstep in replicating what will be high load-hit-store costs on the x86 that existed on the PowerPC (for both the 360 and the PS3, but worse on the latter). Now, having GDDR5 is useful when shared memory is involved, so this is also intruiging, since it means that textures and framebuffers can be passed quickly via DMA. This is a lesson they appeared to have learned from the PS3 (which had a segregated model, much to everyone's chagrin). I expect that the X1 will be GPU bound, and the PS4 will be CPU bound. Due to that, I predict that both will operate roughly the same. An intelligent developer will be able to optimize for both, a task that was nearly impossible with the 360 and the PS3 (due to the PS3's very peculiar SPU setup). On the user side, one of the reasons that /r/gaming seems to dislike the X1 is that they don't realize that they're not the X1's target playerbase. The X1 is being marketed towards youth who play games, casual game players, and people who want to use the X1 for multimedia purposes (as a HTPC of sorts). The PS4 is being marketed towards more general gamers. This is no different than the 360 and the PS3. There is also a good reason for Microsoft wanting to limit the ability to share/resell games... ... because game developers want them to. Microsoft has always been far more friendly with developers than Sony has been, from working with them to the development toolkits. Microsoft, just like Sony, makes most of their money on game licensing and not on the consoles themselves, so this is perfectly reasonable from their point of view, and enough people are likely to buy the X1 for it to be justified to them. This well-reasoned argument by TotalBiscuit on YouTube emphasizes the developer's position on this, and Microsoft is only paying heed to their actual customer (the developer; you aren't the customer, you're customer's customer to them). Used game sales and game-sharing does hurt developers, as much as /r/gaming won't admit that. Unlike music, movies, cars, etc, games don't have multiple revenue streams after purchase. The music industry continues to make money via concerts and royalties. The movie industry continues to make money via rentals, DVDs, royalties, syndication, etc. Cars break down. Games... don't. Games last virtually forever, and the only point at which the developer makes money is when they're sold. There are income models that get around that (MMO, free-to-play), but they aren't ideal in every situation (and indeed I dislike FTP). Companies like GameStop are quite literally stealing profit from developers, particularly when their business model is to convince people to buy used instead of new (they do this because they make far more profit on used games than new games). This is why Microsoft has been pushed by developers to support this model - because the game industry is hurting (and they really are, one only needs to look at all the terminations recently). More interestingly, this isn't really any different than PC gaming. Do you use Steam? There really isn't game sharing/used games there. You don't even have physical media for most PC games anymore. Microsoft is only following in Valve's footsteps, here. Most media is moving towards digital formats, where restrictions on used media is easy and will be implemented. The former is what consumers want, the latter is going to be implemented at the want of content-makers. Welcome to capitalism. [/quote] [url]http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1fyjgr/regarding_xbox_one_and_allegations_of_voterigging/[/url]
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  • Thank you, and thank god for some rationality. I miss when this forum was only occupied by Xbox players, the PS fans are so rude and immature.
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    25 Replies
    • Explain this then
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    • Faith in humanity restored
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    • Holy shit. This is good shit. Too bad I'll still rage on x1 but good job bro!
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    • Whether or not the individual is actually a Developer, it's still a well-reasoned, knowledgeable post. And for a further rarity on Reddit, the poster is absolutely correct in every way. Well composed post, well said. He wins all the internets.
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    • I hope this never goes away
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    • Are you God?
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    • LolReddit
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    • Dude, tell it like it is man. Amen
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    • Edited by TigerTitan: 1/15/2014 7:12:02 AM
      Mike124382 is the idiot that bumped this. [b]Edit:[/b] He's actually necrobumping quite a few other threads too.
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    • I am going to ENJOY both consoles. Yay :D I miss when Bungie had a more strict ToS on their forum actually. <_< the amount of poop comments being thrown around makes it feel like every board is the Flood, but with a category.
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    • I've never understood the "console war" thing. I enjoy Sony, have since the original PlayStation so as soon as the conference ended and I could preorder mine I did. I've never cared what other people like or what console they want to play on - it affects my life zero. The only thing that sucks about different consoles especially with a game like Destiny is now I have less people to possibly play with because of the console I choose. Oh well, see you all in the wild! (Or at least on the forums)
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      • In PS+ first year, they gave 84 free games. Can't beat that.
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        • Don't post that here! It is logic, and people don't like logic on these forums
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        • Edited by ThirteenJerico: 6/12/2013 5:15:37 PM
          This sheds a lot of light on the subject, thank you. One problem I have, though I wish to express first that it's a biased intuition and not based in fact, is that everyone is saying [i]digital is good, more money to publishers and developers is good, it keeps the costs of games down, they'll be able to put on great sales like Steam![/i] In an industry where $60 is the norm and accepted by everyone and gaming sales are few and far between and never very compelling anyway, suddenly a game that sells for the same price as always makes you more money and everyone buys it anyway, why would you start reducing the costs just because it costs you less to distribute? When you sell product X for $Y and you make Z sales and P in profit, why would you reduce the price when your profits go up?
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          • Edited by Cpl Crosseyes: 6/12/2013 5:29:20 AM
            Sorry, it's still a horrible argument. First off I take the general consensus of "people with hardware experience" (who may or may not have vested interest in a console doing well being a developer) or not than a single opinion why objectively less advanced tech might be better. That's a wall of text of one guys opinion against the normal accepted one. [quote]The X1 is being marketed towards youth who play games, casual game players, and people who want to use the X1 for multimedia purposes (as a HTPC of sorts).[/quote]So it's marketed towards absolutely no one who would have vested interest and/or or ability buying a 500$ [b]game[/b] console the day it comes out. 360 started out a game console and became a multimedia center as its life went on to dip into the casual crowd after initial install and price drops. [quote]Microsoft is only paying heed to their actual customer[/quote]So they actively WANT to cater to other corporations and businesses while ignoring the consumer? I wonder why there's such uproar in the first place? [quote]Unlike music, movies, cars, etc, games don't have multiple revenue streams after purchase.[/quote][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downloadable_content]O[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_pack]RLY[/url] [quote]Companies like GameStop are quite literally stealing profit from developers[/quote]Decrying used games has only been a scapegoat make out with more money themselves. Gamestop in particular is the one friend they love to pretend is their enemy, decrying them in one press release and giving them all exclusive pre-order bonuses to encourage business there the next day. [quote]More interestingly, this isn't really any different than PC gaming.[/quote]Contrary to popular belief, Steam and DRM does not equal PC gaming. If Steam became a shit service overnight things like Origin or other distribution platforms (or lack thereof, PC games can go 100% solo due to its nature) can swoop in to make them pay. Competition. What will be MS's competition when they and only they have the control over their own marketplace that everything Xbox will be forced to go through or be locked down? There won't be any. And consumers will be straddled with higher prices with more inconvenience with no other option because there is no market on Xbox live, only Microsoft. [quote]Welcome to capitalism. [/quote]The party's been started, and Microsoft brought the kool-aid.
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            • There is some seriously wicked Necromancy at work here...
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            • who bumped this bullshit?
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            • Capitalism is an untarnished moral good because the essence of capitalism is ‘what does something cost’. And the answer is it costs what people are willing to pay for it. And when you understand that you understand everything that what this object costs is what people are willing to pay for it. Once you get to that place everything makes sense and you don’t have to have 30 million people killed anymore to make sense out of something that you couldn’t understand in the first place. It costs what it costs, plus enough to make it worthwhile to do again. tldr; don't buy this crap.
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            • Can we all just agree if apple made a game console it would dominate sony and ms ! :)
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              • Good read.
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              • Damn that is quite the argument. Well played. Both consoles are going to be great though. Screw console wars.
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                • Logic, it's right up there ^ Everyone should read that. And then shut the -blam!- up a out the console war.
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                • Whoever wrote that... is awesome.
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                • That only covers hardware and usage rights, there many more things to take into account when deciding which one is better
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                • I don't care about wich console is the best, I only want to play destiny :D
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