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#Halo

2/6/2012 1:22:36 AM
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Predicting Destiny Based on Halo 3: ODST and Halo Reach

[quote][url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtG6--4r_qk&t=49m10s][b]"With ODST, with Reach, in ways that we haven't revealed yet we absolutely learned important things from all of those games."[/b] Joe Staten, Lead Writer and Cinematics Director for Halo 1, 2, 3, ODST and Reach[/url][/quote] Practice. Bungie began the development of Halo 3: ODST and Reach after their departure from Microsoft. In return, Microsoft contracted Bungie to develop two more Halo games before they could be set free to do their own thing. I think this benefitted both Microsoft and Bungie, allowing both companies the time, money and momentum to get them prepared for the final transition of Halo ownership, which will be complete, come March 31st 2012. For Bungie, it seems that those extra 3 years of preparation, from 2007 to 2010, gave them the chance to do more than just prepare themselves for a life without Halo; it gave them an opportunity to actively field-test concepts, techniques and gauge public response to what they were planning to do post-Halo. [quote][url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtG6--4r_qk&t=40m4s][b]"The deal was essentially: we make a couple more Halo games, we leave Halo with Microsoft and we can split amicably."[/b] Harold Ryan, President of Bungie[/url][/quote] [quote][b]Halo 3: ODST - Developed 2008-2009[/b][/quote] Halo 3: ODST came to be when the Halo Chronicles tie-in with the Halo Movie fell through. It was developed in the space of just 14 months and was released in September 2009; which means the development began in August 2008. This is supported from this update [url=http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=15171]posted by lukems at 8/15/2008 4:09 PM PDT[/url]. So, what's important about ODST? Well, it gave us a few things that were ultimately different from Halo 1-3, that I believe were Bungie's important development lessons. [quote]* The VISR mode (night-vision) * Much more realistic characters and interactions * Subliminal messaging for the future ([url=http://www.bigshinyrobot.com/reviews/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/destiny_awaits.jpg]through environments[/url]) * The compass (NSEW at the top of the HUD) * The overview map, which we could set destination-markers on, or see quest-locations * The hub world; reusable environments, both day and night * Our first sense of being the character, having no backstory to go by but our own * Quest items (clues) * Multiple playable characters * A huge consistent open environment with naturally spawning AI and events * A meta-story, Sadie's Story * Our introduction to a space-to-ground sequence * Huge scripted sequences in the distance in real-time (glassing, etc) * Introduction to animals that aren't just birds or rats, although dead (this is actually important) * A true sense of being vulnerable against enemies that would be pushovers as a Spartan * Firefight - an understanding of controlled combat situations and environments and how to design for the ultimate experience that could go on for hours, yet still be fun * Music that breaks away entirely from the heroic, ancient and galaxy-saving superhuman theme; much more relaxed and moody * Made with a really small team using a pre-existing engine and some pre-existing assets, but being able to construct such a large amount extra in just 14 short months[/quote] And there are probably even more that I'm neglecting to mention. [quote][b]Halo Reach - Developed 2007-2010[/b][/quote] Halo Reach ties in many of the significant features from ODST and expands upon them a thousandfold. [quote]* Armor Abilities (Sprint, Jetpack, Camo, etc) * MoCap-animated characters and cutscenes * Vignettes sequences in level (scripted animated action scenes during gameplay) * An entirely detailed planet and backstory, along with geographies and architecture * An entirely customizable character, with an in-built economics system * Integration of multiplayer and Firefight areas into Campaign to truly maximize for tested enjoyment * Reusing environments to see how changes such as a higher tide, or battle-damaged affect mood * Our second and properly fleshed out sense of being the character; having no backstory to go by but our own * Orbital weaponry (this seems significant to me for some reason) * Fully fleshed out characters with defined personalities, actors and appearances * Epic space battles. * Hugely non-linear environments and levels, with sufficient dialogue and action to support, without negatively affecting level appearance in an obvious way * A meta-story, the datapads * A true in-engine cutscene transition from ground movement to space battles without any loading screens (this is SUPER important) * Huge scripted sequences in the distance in real-time (glassing, warfare, etc) * Introduction to huge and lifelike fantasy animals that you can interact with, and even kill and be killed by (this is more important than ODST's animals) * A return to being afraid of the aliens you're fighting, in terms of their brutality and alien nature. * Not many people know this, but Bungie actually wrote an entire Sanghelios language for the voice actors to do their Covenant dialogue in. An entire alien language. Not just warblgarlblarrgh or reversed English. * Music that breaks away entirely from the heroic, ancient and galaxy-saving superhuman theme; and much more focussed on the death and loss on a dying planet in a lost war. * Forge was completely revised to incorporate massive amounts of asset-placement with a variety of reusable objects in a map roughly the size of a small campaign level.[/quote] But don't just take my word for it: [quote][url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbjdyVxIJRY&t=4m57s ][b]"We wanted to make sure that this planet felt like a real place; that it was a lived in place, with a real history, a population and a backstory all together."[/b] Marcus Lehto, Creative Director[/url][/quote] If you've ever explored Winter Contingency, you'll know full well the extent that Bungie went to populating this game with detail that the gamer familiar with Halo games from the past would never see. Why wouldn't they focus on simply designing a linear path as they have before? Why the multiple paths, the multiple locations, orders and scenarios in a level largely designed to be linear? Why the decorated history of the population that we only get to talk to for a whole of 5 minutes? We'll get to that. [quote][url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbjdyVxIJRY&t=5m35s][b]"We defined three distinct geographies that we wanted to explore: Boreal, Badlands, and Temperate. In addition we explored a ton of architectural styles, including this Pioneer style, which is this more rustic colony kind of place to live, Industrial, Hyper-Urban and ONI."[/b] Marcus Lehto, Creative Director[/url][/quote][quote][b]Winter Contingency[/b] - Boreal, Temperate, Pioneer [b]ONI: Sword Base[/b] - Boreal, Badlands, Industrial, ONI [b]Nightfall[/b] - Badlands [b]Tip of the Spear[/b] - Badlands [b]Long Night of Solace[/b] - Badlands, Industrial, Space [b]Exodus[/b] - Hyper-Urban [b]New Alexandria[/b] - Hyper-Urban [b]The Package[/b] - Boreal, Badlands, ONI, Industrial [b]The Pillar of Autumn[/b] - Badlands, Industrial [b]Lone Wolf[/b] - Badlands, Industrial[/quote] That's a lot of variety in geographies, now that you mention it, Marcus. I wonder if you could say that it was practice to get used to, and to have a library of concept art and reference images for such environments. Seems to me like they could all quite easily be interconnected together to build a cohesive world that isn't limited by cutscenes and levels, don't you think? [quote][url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbjdyVxIJRY&t=6m18s][b]"We set out really to define every detail about this planet Reach, including the planet's colonization history, its overall geography, primary economies, major population centres and strategic military sites. You might not see this in the game, but for example, Reach orbits Epsilon Eridani, a star. It's got a 27-hour day, a 390-day year, and those that are born on the planet are called "Born-Heavy", because it's a little bit bigger than Earth."[/b] Marcus Lehto, Creative Director[/url][/quote] Okay, dude, that is an entire planet. You weren't joking about clearly defining the details. Combine that knowledge with the geographies and architectural styles and you've got yourself a pretty formula for creating an entire [i]playable planet[/i], don't you think? Or at least a continent. Not to mention the sheer level of detail you've gone into the planet's backstory, most of which we aren't "privy" to, which I believe you're going to discuss with us now. [quote][url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6itAzvJBWs&t=4m49s][b]"As far as the shooting style: we didn't have any "Meanwhile" moments, things that you've seen in movies all the time, when you see someone that might'velike, Colonel Holland giving a briefing the Spartan team, if you saw him prior to this and seen some of his motivations, it would certainly tell you more about the story, but it's not something that the Spartans are privy to, so That gave us the opportunity to know that we were working within these rules, and use the Spartan reactions as our information throughout the game."[/b] Marcus Lehto, Creative Director[/url][/quote] So you've developed all of this information about Reach, its population, its fauna, its geographies, its system, but you've decided to slap some tunnel-vision on us and only show us what we're privy to? Intriguing. This does two things; the first being that it puts us into a solid and entirely conceivable and believable world; the second being that it made me think about why you went to the effort in the first place. The only logical conclusion I can reach (no pun intended) is that you went to such effort in order to warm Bungie up for what's yet to come with Destiny, for all disciplines. [Edited on 02.06.2012 1:13 PM PST]

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  • You almost wonder if they created other places and used the Halo engine to test out things that we may never see. What if they practiced making these livable planets? What is Forge World is actually an entire planet, but they put boundaries on it knowing current gen stuff couldn't handle the load? I hope they reveal it someday in a developmental diary or something, because this topic is incredibly interesting to me. GREAT post, OP. Liked x 10!

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  • *revivin' old top topicz* (click [url=http://www.bungie.net/en-us/View/community/Forum/Post?id=47679257]here[/url] for more of 'em)

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  • Awesome thread is awesome

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  • I've been looking for this thread.

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  • Fascinating topic, this post may get me back into the Bungie Forums.

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  • I really wouldn't call Reach's Data Pads as any kind of "thousandfold" improvement over Sadie's Story in ODST. Sadie's Story has some of the finest artwork, story progression, character development and overall structure in the Halo series, the Data Pads were just text with only 1 interesting concept that humanity has been directed by these AIs for the past 200 years. Halo 3's Terminals were interesting because they threw so much lore at you about the Forerunners which has since been expanded on and given substance, but Reach's Data Pads were pretty bland IMO.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SonicJohn * Armor Abilities (Sprint, Jetpack, Camo, etc) * Vignettes sequences in level (scripted animated action scenes during gameplay) * Integration of multiplayer and Firefight areas into Campaign to truly maximize for tested enjoyment * Reusing environments to see how changes such as a higher tide, or battle-damaged affect mood * Epic space battles. * A meta-story, the datapads * A true in-engine cutscene transition from ground movement to space battles without any loading screens (this is SUPER important) * Introduction to huge and lifelike fantasy animals that you can interact with, and even kill and be killed by (this is more important than ODST's animals) * A return to being afraid of the aliens you're fighting, in terms of their brutality and alien nature. * Not many people know this, but Bungie actually wrote an entire Sanghelios language for the voice actors to do their Covenant dialogue in. An entire alien language. Not just warblgarlblarrgh or reversed English. * Music that breaks away entirely from the heroic, ancient and galaxy-saving superhuman theme; and much more focussed on the death and loss on a dying planet in a lost war.[/quote]-they were only despised in MP I believe -I hated those and yet they didn't occur as often as they do in Halo 4 -Was so stale -The Package was mercifully short compared to that wretched ONI Base -it was a good start. Much better than Halo 4's space battle -it's too bad Noble Team didn't make any remark at all about the Spec Ops Elite who drops one... -too bad there was no skipping it -I guess it was amusing to be killed by a stuck Moa. But the Guta was abomination. Not nearly as interesting as it should have been. I'm not even sure if Halo 4 still has that manta ray creature seen in the E3 demo -I wasn't afraid of anything besides Grunts, Jackals, Elite Minors, Majors, and dual wielding Elites. Reach really made the mooks dangerous while making dual wielders extremely cheap and annoying -IIRC 343 said that the H4 Covies would sound similar to English but now they, particularly the Elites, sound closer to Japanese... -at least there weren't any lyrics or looping music. Halo 4 has both. Music often sounds unfitting in that game [Edited on 12.02.2012 8:12 AM PST]

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  • Great read and great referencing in this post.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] chiefkid10 how do I play games on this website[/quote] You go too a different one. [Edited on 12.01.2012 12:29 PM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SonicJohn * Realtime space-to-ground sequences that we choose (with orbiting satellites, or moons as our destination) without any loading screens or perhaps even cutscenes (see [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7eREddMjt4]Infinity[/url] for what I mean by this) [/quote] This If Bungie could pull it off on a huge scale with large ships...I would probably need new pants when the game is released.

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  • I think you might go a bit too deep into the details there OP. But your overall idea is something I agree with. I personally believe the open world structure of ODST with it change of pace flashbacks served as a test for what Destiny might be. If Destiny truely is an (semi) MMOFPS, the divide in ODST could be a forecast of what to expect. A bigger open world with less action, more focussed on story and a slower pace. And smaller, more explosive "missions" that give more insight into the story but really work as the core action gameplay. Sadie's Story was of course a continuation of the Terminals they've already introduced. But Bungie will no doubt implement more of that. And then there is the Superindentent. It served as a great way to introduce players to the world and the game mechanics from the game's own perspective. I really believe Destiny will have a similar AI controlling the Last City. Bungie tinkering away with AA's and such I believe was a test to give players more control over their own playstyle while trying to keep everybody fairly similar in terms of core abilities and balancing (which Reach didn't succeed well in every regard). I think Destiny will take that part from Reach and introduce it to its singleplayer more. That being said: I believe Destiny will be semi MMOFPS, so its "campaign" will of course always be online co-op. The overall world would be populated by lots of people. The story driven missions would be 4-8 players coop. The multiplayer would just take place within the same universe, in areas made specificially for that (which would take cues from Reach' singleplayer-multiplayer maps).

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  • SonicJohn could you answer to my question please ? A lot of people want to see in Destiny connections with Halo, but imagine if it's the opposite... Well let me explain my thought. we all know Bungie let everything they had to 343i, that include all of their engine (data and assets) to the new studio. So do you think they have a clear idea of what Destiny could be ? I mean except Frank O'Connor "who know" what Destiny is (he talked about it a few years ago mentionning how hard it was to choose between the new game and Halo) is it possible 343 have a sort of "Destiny's prototype" between hands ? And if it's the case, future Halo can share a few similarities ? I'm saying this, because after re-reading your thread and watching for the 100th time [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZs8ryXP4kE#t=6m29s]Pax 2010[/url], many concept showed (global battle, space battle) can be as well Destiny concept that was supposed to fit in Halo Universe... of course all of this happen, if i'm continuing your theory about Bungie testing idea in Halo.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 It is alleged to have been interred (placed in a grave) with Charlemagne's body, or contrarily to be held by the Saint Denis Basilica, where it was later retired into the Louvre after being carried at the front of Coronation processionals for French kings. [/quote] Perhaps it's an AI from humanities "golden age" that was left in a ruin of a human settlement or military base. On Charlemagne [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 ...his empire united most of Western Europe for the first time since the Romans, and the Carolingian renaissance encouraged the formation of a common European identity.[/quote] Perhaps the main storyline is to unite the Seven Seraphs, Osiris, New Monarchy, and Dead Orbit factions? [Edited on 11.29.2012 9:24 PM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ArcGuard If that's yours, you need to make the background that the text is on more Opaque. You can't read the white letters when they're over top of the bight white DESTINY in the background image. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ARBITOR 5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SonicJohn [quote]x Foman123 x's [url=http://destinypedia.net/]Destinypedia - External Wiki for all things Destiny[/url][/quote][/quote]I told you twice already, Destinypedia.net has closed down; [url=http://destinypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Destinypedia_Wiki]here's the new one run by me.[/url] Great article though, in depth as normal! :)[/quote][/quote]Really? Okay, thanks. It looks alright on my Laptop but i'll change it anyway.

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  • If that's yours, you need to make the background that the text is on more Opaque. You can't read the white letters when they're over top of the bight white DESTINY in the background image. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ARBITOR 5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SonicJohn [quote]x Foman123 x's [url=http://destinypedia.net/]Destinypedia - External Wiki for all things Destiny[/url][/quote][/quote]I told you twice already, Destinypedia.net has closed down; [url=http://destinypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Destinypedia_Wiki]here's the new one run by me.[/url] Great article though, in depth as normal! :)[/quote]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SonicJohn [quote]x Foman123 x's [url=http://destinypedia.net/]Destinypedia - External Wiki for all things Destiny[/url][/quote][/quote]I told you twice already, Destinypedia.net has closed down; [url=http://destinypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Destinypedia_Wiki]here's the new one run by me.[/url] Great article though, in depth as normal! :)

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Old Papa Rich I think this thread really has some great specualtion, some of which really fits given what we know about the Activision contract and the IGN story. It is hereby resurrected.[/quote]Thanks, man. It's interesting to see that a lot of what we know from ODST and Reach really is shaping up to be along the same lines as what we may see from Destiny. I remember a quote somewhere saying that Bungie wanted to do Destiny a while ago but never felt like they could because the technology just wasn't there yet. I believe the key factor here that they were missing was the planetside to space transition ability. The image of the Traveller in orbit seems to confirm that there will be a bigger focus on that sort of thing. I'm excites.

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  • I think this thread really has some great specualtion, some of which really fits given what we know about the Activision contract and the IGN story. It is hereby resurrected.

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  • Great post can't wait to see what happens next.

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  • Yeah the space fighting stuff from Reach is really suggestive. It was an odd moment in Reach that didn't really match what Spartans do....... so I think its very fair to say that space combat will feature in the next Bungie game. A combination of FPS and aerial/space combat in a seamless battlefield would be amazing.

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  • I've always seen the Space Fighting in Reach as something plausible for Destiny.

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  • Wow that took forever to read but I am thoroughly understanding where you are coming from with this... Destiny, a bit cheesy to say the least but still, in the dictionary definition of "awesomenessnessness", Bungie has a logo there somewhere.

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  • Predicting Destiny based on what Halo was originally intended to be and what was cut from Reach: With the rumours about Destiny being an MMO or at least some kind of open world game this came to my mind: Halo was intended to be an open world game at some point of development. I don't have a source where I have this information from, but I'm sure I read this in some interview or heard it in one of the making of videos. The idea was that you can walk over and explore the whole Halo ring. I would appreciate it if they would take up this idea again. And I hope some of these prototypes make it into Destiny: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZs8ryXP4kE&hd=1&t=6m25s]PAX 2010: Bungie Halo: Reach Panel (Part 3)[/url]. This kind of increases my hopes: [quote]Unannounced Project, Game Designer          2008 - 2010 -  Participated in very early stages of project planning -  Designed and built [u][b]multiple gameplay prototypes in a modified version of the Halo engine[/b][/u] -  Helped to secure publisher funding partially on the basis of these prototypes[/quote] source: [url=http://thetipofthesphere.com/resume/]Resume << The Tip of the Sphere[/url]

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  • Positivelly Beautifull.

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  • Figured [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aQhCO6hpu4&feature=related]this would be of interest[/url] to those interested in the sort of technology that could be behind planet-scale world building. Let me know if you consider it to be just a little bit similar to the footage we saw in the ViDoc.

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  • May the LORD bless our agreement in this. [Edited on 03.14.2012 7:15 PM PDT]

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