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Edited by Binx56: 1/17/2020 6:22:20 PM
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The "KWTD" Expectation is An Example of Destiny's Toxicity.

Post subject. I just want to learn a thing or two about raids and every single post is a KWTD post. What happened to the sherpas? Edit: Thanks to most people here for blowing up my phone for two days and calling me "lazy". Really was enlightening and I now no longer think of the community as toxic. What was I thinking? Edit II: It appears I've struck a nerve here. My issue isn't with "knowing what to do", it's with the countless groups I've joined who kick for not having clears, all with the "KTWD" label. The toxicity lies within people essentially performing background checks on folks and ridiculing or being unnecessarily harsh on those without clears.

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  • Just let all raids have a solo easier version, also give ALL of the raids matchmaking.

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  • There are still many sherpas. I see people helping others all the time. Just not enough to help the demand. Too many people are for what ever reason, are not getting in there and learning on their own. They prefer to sit back, let others put in the work, and then ride their hard work to a free clear. Post like this dont help either, makes sherpas want to walk away even more. Too many people feel entitled to an ez clear. The game gives back what you put into it. Its on each of us to get shit done.

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    • Edited by kellygreen2: 1/16/2020 12:37:57 PM
      [quote]What happened to the sherpas?[/quote] Bungie killed them. Bungie's raid design team swung so hard at making sure that no one gets carried through a raid...and that no one can short-hand/short-man a raid....that they basically destroyed sherpas. People sherpa'ed raids in Destiny 1, because the mechanics were elastic enough that three or four good players could complete the fights. Which meant you could lose two or three people to death.....or compensate for two new or weak players. ....and still progress through the raid. So taking on a couple of new players....or players of dubious skill....didn't put the whole raid in jeopardy. In Destiny 2, raids are now exercises where just a single weak player....or one who is "not getting it"...can stop the progress of an entire raid team. The guy who keeps dying eventually uses up all your revive tokens....and wipes the team. The raid WIPES you if you DON"T revive him, and try to short-hand the fight around him. The guy who simply isn't "getting it" eventually causes the team to fail. So any team that is taking on a raid with a new player is taking an ENORMOUS risk. The entire success of the raid team is being wagered against that player's ability to learn quickly. While teams may be willing to shoulder that for a clan member or buddy..... ...asking them to do that for a complete stranger whom they will never see again is a HUGE ask.

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      • Heh, what happened to us sherpa's is that we got sick of it eventually I guess. Ive been one since summer of 2015 to autumn 2019. I know the ins and out of every raid in D1, except WoTM. Ive taught VoG, Crota, PoE, Blind Well, multiple forges, a few exotic questlines here and there in both D1 and D2 and especially Kingsfall to countless people. Hell, I can still hear [b][i]SYLOK, THE DEFILED[/i][/b] in my head lol. Sure, I made a few friends along the way but compared to the amount of entitlement, lack of gratitude and all around douchy behaviour from immature adults and wannabe tough guy kids, it really makes me wonder if it was worth it. Having a sherpa is nice...being one, aint so, more often than not.

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        • Edited by NVMYGT: 1/15/2020 11:22:44 PM
          KWTD could be as simple as did you watch a video to see what it is you should be doing, and maybe have an idea what not to do. (To some groups) I've helped sherpa many new players through their first raid, let me say that it takes alot of patience running a 30 minute raid for 2-4 hours because someone couldn't be bothered to at least watch a video. What's worse as when you try to explain the encounter and their required parts, they want to goof off, run around, crack jokes, shoot everyone, run everyone down on their sparrow (SoTP) and cause the wipe every time with the lowest dps numbers because they weren't listening while you explain the dps phase or the C.A.P. system (Scourge) And dont lie, if you dont know what to do, say something. We had to kick a guy from GoS last week, said he knew how to do the raid but not the boss. Turns out he had no idea what to do and we wasted alot of time for nothing. Sherpas will teach you what to do, just be honest about your experience level.

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          • The fireteam section always has people willing to run sherpa, using "kwtd" is not toxic, its players essentially saying they dont have time to sherpa. The problem is people aren't playing raids much cause its just not rewarding anymore. I understand the frustration of finding players to help but i personally have not seen the toxicity. Ive had plenty of randoms willing to help but you have to actually post for help within the fireteam section. Post what you want help with instead of hoping someone else will post that they will help. Fireteam lfg within the bungie app and site work great. Just have to use them properly

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          • Do you simply want to “know what to do” or are you really looking for chill friends to play with? Because you can learn every encounter in the raid just by watching YouTube videos. That’s how I’ve been doing it. It’s not the BEST way but it’s better than going in cold with strangers who have zero patience because Bungie decided to make raids that have overcomplicated mechanics requiring flawless coordination or else the idiotic revive token system will end up wiping you. Knowing what to do isn’t too difficult these days with all the walkthroughs online. Playing with chill people... good luck with that.

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          • If you want to learn something you can learn in multiple ways. What has that got anything to do with LFG or KWTD posts? I know what to do in the Leviathan raid but have never done a single encounter in there.

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            • Edited by Yuno: 1/17/2020 12:47:50 PM
              To be fair when a raid has been out for a few months people LFGing a raid will expect most people to know what to do and be competent. The other night my 3 friends and I LFGed a garden of salvation and put KWTD in our post. It was late on a weekday night and we had no interest in sitting there for hours teaching someone who might not even have good guns or be capable of listening, so we just put KWTD to make sure we got 2 good players. One of them was Enlightened but the other had never done it before, but he said he knew how because he had watched guides. We let him stay and see what he could do and sure enough he surprisingly did know exactly what to do with the exception of a couple pointers. We got him his first clear. Thats all anyone wants, someone who, you know, [i]knows what to do.[/i] Doesn’t mean you have to have 20 clears beforehand. Teaching someone completely fresh to the idea of raids how to do something like last wish who has never watched a guide and has NO idea what is going on is a nightmare and time commitment that very few are willing to endure. Props to those people. But if you have no experience and want to do a raid, just make sure you know what to do through guides and usually KWTD teams will let you stay. You can’t expect everyone to be willing to just outright teach you a raid with no background knowledge.

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              • Wow, the comments , and they say the PvP community is bad. You all ain't no better. 😂😂

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                • Or just maybe it isn't a high expectation to watch a 5-10 minute video on each encounter and then a person helps you out . I carried a new guy through for his first clear y'day and guess what ? He was flawless . But he looked up for a few mins before the raid how to get the general gist of encounters . I'm sorry not a ton of people have a few hours to dedicate just to your desires . Let me feel bad and toxic for wanting to do a raid in an efficient manner and do other content I want after a days at work . You sound incredibly entitled, it's actually hilarious . You want to raid? You can spend literally a few mins to get an idea of how to do stuff if you can't find a Sherpa , otherwise keep whining .

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                • 4
                  "KWTD" isn't toxic. "Play exactly as I say and have a raid report exactly how I want or you'll get judged, laughed at, and kicked" is toxic.

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                  • KWTD? they're not asking for much, not even experience, just watch come videos and read a guide and BOOM you know what to do.

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                  • U r toxic, learn how to play buddy

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                    • If you look for more than 2 minutes you might find one, instead of quickly scrolling through then coming here to complain.

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                    • What happened is that they are all still there, but there is so much demand for them and the posts fly off LFG before it even had a chance. I loved the D1 raids and would allow pretty much anyone in my LFGs because I was comfortable with my skill level there. Sherpa's benefit from working with newer guardians because they learn how adjust on the fly - a valuable skill that can be difficult to learn when running with a built team that does the exact same thing ever week. I feel your pain though. I skipped 3 or so seasons and find myself way behind everyone else. Not many people want to help the guy get his Izanagi's done after they've helped everyone else do it for the past few months. Fortunately I had two random strangers help me with the Pyramidion and EDZ mission last night from LFG although they already had it - the Destiny community is still strong out there. Anyways I play so late that most of my friends and clan are offline by the time I get on - so I am mostly a solo player. I have some random quests I wouldn't mind working together to get done for all the others guardians out there in my boat. Anyone is free to add me on XBone that are night owls (US time). My GT is linked to Bungie profile.

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                    • Edited by JB187: 1/15/2020 10:28:42 PM
                      Sorry but you're wrong on this one Chief, it's not my responsibility to babysit you through a raid when i just want to get it done quickly and get my pinnacle gear, back in the day when i didn't know how to raid i watched videos and i joined an LFG that was running a levi, i was honest with that LFG and told them that i watched videos but never actually ran the raid, they were more than happy to take me through and i was able to hold my own because of the vids i watched, that LFG became my current clan and I've been raiding with those same guys going on 2 years now. Take some initiative and watch some raid guides, and then be honest about your knowledge with LFG and you will find a group that is willing to help, not trying to sound harsh here but that's the reality of it.

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                      • Its really not. I'm sorry I don't wanna sit in a raid that i've mastered for an extra hour because we need to explain something to you. The entitled expectation of people to waste their own time to catch you up on content is actually far more toxic. If you wanna learn then watch guides and form your own group. The Gaul of someone to want 5 people to put what they're doing on hold because you refuse to watch guides or couldn't learn when everyone else was Is astounding.

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                        • Youtube.com

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                        • Watch a tutorial and voila, you kwtd.

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                        • Watch videos, create a Raid LFG, that easy

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                        • Watch. A -blam!-ing. Guide. The squad and I went into D1 and D2 raids with a KWTD tag in our LFM post and we only ever had knowledge of a guide as well. And voilà, in King's Fall it wasn't the most smooth experience the first time through but we did it because we had 6 people who KWTD by watching one of those. If you wanna go in blind without knowledge, well, gather folks up on the Fireteam Finder for it. There's probably a lot of people who want to raid and haven't done it before. All it takes is some initiative from the people who never done it.

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                        • It is not toxic for people making a raid group and only wanting people who know what to do. It is not toxic if people dont want to teach you. It is no ones responsibility in the game to teach other players. Each player can make any group with any requirements they want. None of this is toxic , stop whining. You to have the power to make your own learning group.

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                        • Edited by Swift: 1/16/2020 1:02:12 AM
                          "toxicity" You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. Requesting that you simply want players who know raid mechanics is not toxic.

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                          • Be you’re own Sherpa👍 It’s how I got through puberty. I ruined alot of towels.

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                          • Nobody is obligated to teach you the raid, and they aren't toxic for not wanting to. This post reeks of entitlement.

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