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Edited by Ericqs2: 12/6/2019 10:46:26 PM
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(SOLAR SUBCLASS CHANGES) [Answer This Bungie] - How Bungie omitted information,Completely Nerfed a Marginalized subclass and Sold that as a Big Buff

[quote][i]EDIT NOTE: PLEASE READ THE IMPORTANT PART AT LEAST BEFORE COMMENTING THINGS THAT ARE ALREADY MENTIONED ON THIS TEXT. THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT IS TAKING THEIR CONCLUSIONS AFTER THE FIRST 2 LINES IS CONVINCING ME THAT WE DESERVE TO BE FOOLED.[/i][/quote] [quote]EDIT NOTE 2:"- - THERE ARE 2 BIG [b][i]">>>>IMPORTANT<<<< "[/i][/b] go for it if you dont have the time. I hope that solves the problem of people dont reading. But to understand the full situation, consider reading it all if possible. [/quote] Thanks for Your attention Summarizing: We all know that minor tweaks and nerfs may happen to all classes as gameplay goes on, but now it seems bungie used a "buff-mostly" event as an excuse to cover a total nerf for the Warlock solar subclasses and still called it a buff (omitting information). -- We as players must pay attention to that since it could happen to any other class. I do agree with some nerfs, but bungie played dirty this time. [i](I beg your pardon for the grammar, english is not my native language)[/i] [quote]So I ask you bungie, You guys REALLY tought this as a GOOD IMPROVEMENT? None of those are close to good, all of them are a nerf of some sort with *new* things. WHY not publish the entire changelog and say everything?[/quote] [quote][i][u][b]Hint: All those "new abilities" "reworks" are just a NERFED version of what we already had, just in another POSITION of the tree.[/b][/i] - SOLD as new content, and most people dont even realised that.[/quote] [b]>>>>>>>>>>>IMPORTANT<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[/b] [b]Top Tree Analysis:[/b][/u] [i][u][b]>>>>>THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THIS POST, BEFORE COMMENTING/TAKING YOUR CONCLUSIONS, READ THIS AT LEAST.<<<<<[/b][/u][/i] [spoiler][b]1 - Melee now:[/b] Gives 14 secs of increased [b]Reload[/b], [b]Movement Speed[/b] and [u][b]Air Accuracy[/b][/u] [i][u][b]After Solar week:[/b][/u][/i] "Ranged" Melee, [u]no additional effects[/u]. [i](This nerf was not mentioned by bungie).[/i] [b]2 - (Passive) Heat Rises now:[/b] Airborne kills recharge your [b]Grenade[/b] and [b]Melee energy.[/b] Casting Daybreak instantly [u]refills all your ability energy.[/u] [u][i][b]After Solar week: [/b][/i][/u] Spend you grenade to Glide more and gain increased [u]Air accuracy[/u] >>>>>>[u]Read 1st and 2nd point AGAIN: [/u] -They [u]Copied Melee [b]Air accuracy[/b][/u] and PASTED into a grenade while REMOVING 2 other buffs. [u]-They REMOVED the ability refill on super cast[/u]. [i](None of those were mentioned) [/i] [b]3 - (Passive) Winged Sun now:[/b] Engage your enemies mid-flight. Fire weapons and throw grenades while gliding. [i][u][b]After Solar week: [/b][/u][/i] Use your melee, throw grenades,shoot while gliding and final blows grant [b]Melee energy[/b] and extend Heat Rises duration. >>>>>>>>>>…[u]Wait, take a second and read the 2nd and 3rd point AGAIN with caution.[/u] -They copied the Melee recharge from [b]Heat Rises[/b] and pasted that here as a NEW thing -GRENADE recharge (originally from [b]Heat Rises[/b]) was REMOVED [i](Bungie don’t mentioned that as a nerf)[/i] [b]-[u]REALLY important Note[/u]:[/b] After this """Rework"""" Warlocks are [b]forced to consume a grenade to get air accuracy[/b], [b]without the means to recharge it back[/b]. Before that, [b]melee already did it [/b](GIVING 2 MORE BUFFS), [b][i][u]AND could be RECHARGED[/u][/b].[/i] [i](BUNGIE DONT MENTIONED THIS AS A NERF) [/i] [b]4 – Icarus Dash now:[/b] Dodge While Mid-air. On Super, consume energy to dodge faster [i](Note that this was already an advantage if compared to the bottom tree)[/i] [u][i][b]After Solar week:[/b][/i][/u] Dodge While Mid-air, rumor says it will have 2 charges, consume less energy to accelerate faster on super. [i]…Ok, looks like a buff, but even THIS has a big nerf included and guess what: THIS BUNGIE MENTIONED, but in a silly way so the “Big nerf” had less attention, I will explain this below. [/i][/spoiler] [b]About the Bottom Tree:[/b] Had no changes, no big buffs, THAT TREE needed a tweak for real. Then they removed burst glide acceleration on super for both trees, and that is just it. [b][u]This nerf, THIS ONLY NERF, they published: [/u][/b] [quote][i]”As such, we reduced the speed at which Burst Glide accelerates players in Daybreak. We know this is a controversial change but we wanted to reserve the air superiority gameplay with Attunement of Sky and the Burst Glide speed was blurring the lines between both Daybreak paths.”[/i] [/quote] So they tried to play nice and said THIS one was the nerf and all the others were “Good Reworks”. [b]Quick return to the Top Tree:[/b] [spoiler]So, warlocks had Burst glide, no super energy spent. After Solar week, Warlocks will spend SUPER ENERGY in order to recover that gameplay. [u]THAT one they focused to publish as the “Great Lose”[/u], without MENTIONING the entire and Catastrophic NERF done to the top tree, even Worse: [u][b]they glorified:[/b][/u] [quote][i]”We want to give you the gameplay experience that the fantasy begs for: A flying angel who can maneuver with grace and destroy its foes below.” [/i][/quote][/spoiler] [u][b]On this Final part I would like to consider this “Reworked” (Nerfed) tree in a combat situation:[/b][/u] [spoiler]1: The whole point of flying was to [i]recover both grenades and melee (5~6 kills to refill)[/i], t[b]his IS a High-risk High-Reward strategy,[/b] On PvE you get targeted by literally EVERYTHING and PvP makes that nearly impossible. [b]Still is a good incentive to keep Warlocks in the air. [/b] 2: There is a point of getting grenades faster for example, mixed with a “Enhanced super reload mod” you can kill enemies in an area of impact to [b]get your super back faster[/b], and having the “Insta refill” addition can make you cycle faster trough abilities and [b]keep you in the air for that. [/b] [/spoiler] [i][b]>>>>>>>>>>>>IMPORTANT<<<<<<<<<<<<[/b][/i] [b][u]What bungie gave us: [/u][/b] [spoiler]1: Consume your grenade to glide more, so you can get [b]1/3 of the melee buffs[/b] YOU HAD and you can regenerate [b]ONLY your melee back[/b] to shoot some fireworks at best -- all that while being targeted by the whole world. [i]Note: What to do when you recover your abilities while airborne but has to land soon? [b]a)[/b] Eat up your grenade that may be used for combat and has some reload time [b]b)[/b]JUMP AGAIN AFTER LANDING.[/i] 2: SUPER is just the same without any abilities refill, and warlocks are forced to spend super/grenade to go faster. 3: Did the test on the Knight at the Tribute hall, [b]Grenades have 5x times the damage of a melee attack[/b], and [u]we can bet this new melee is going to be not even close to what a grenade is. [/u][/spoiler] [b]As a Player and a CONSUMER, I feel FOOLED and even worse when I see people that bought this "Solar Week" as an improvement by any way to the warlock subclasses.[/b] If you are a Warlock main, you have nothing to celebrate If you are a Destiny player, wait for more of those, all merged in Server crashes and more empty paid content.

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  • If they want me to hiver in air and shoot normal weapons they better give me a decent shield otherwise I'm dead as soon as I hit the sky

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  • All things Warlock that need fixed: 1. Melee speed 2. Bottom path Vortex Bomb (change it to Lance!) 3. Nova Warp (Super only its neutral game is fine) 4. Top AND bottom path Dawnblade need a complete overhaul at this point (sorry, too many nerfs) 5. Bottom path Stormtrance [aka landfall] where is the neutral game? 6. Chaos Reach animation not only blinds the user but places them in the sights! https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/254519367?sort=0&page=0

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    • what part of this -blam!-ing post do you want people to read?! it's all over the damn place! Delete all the worthless crap, take out some bolds and underlines and spoiler tags and quotes. nobody gives a shit because this post looks like a ad for life insurance

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      • [quote][quote][i]EDIT NOTE: PLEASE READ THE IMPORTANT PART AT LEAST BEFORE COMMENTING THINGS THAT ARE ALREADY MENTIONED ON THIS TEXT. THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT IS JUST READING THE FIRST 2 LINES IS CONVINCING ME THAT WE DESERVE TO BE FOOLED.[/i][/quote] [quote]EDIT NOTE 2:"- - THERE ARE 2 BIG [b][i]>>>>IMPORTANT<<<< [/i][/b] go for it if you dont have the time. I hope that solves the problem of people dont reading. But to understand the full situation, consider reading it all if possible. [/quote] Thanks for Your attention Summarizing: We all know that minor tweaks and nerfs may happen to all classes as gameplay goes on, but now it seems bungie used a "buff-mostly" event as an excuse to cover a total nerf for the Warlock solar subclasses and still called it a buff (omitting information). -- We as players must pay attention to that since it could happen to any other class. I do agree with some nerfs, but bungie played dirty this time. [i](I beg your pardon for the grammar, english is not my native language)[/i] [quote]So I ask you bungie, You guys REALLY tought this as a GOOD IMPROVEMENT? None of those are close to good, all of them are a nerf of some sort with *new* things. WHY not publish the entire changelog and say everything?[/quote] [quote][i][u][b]Hint: All those "new abilities" "reworks" are just a NERFED version of what we already had, just in another POSITION of the tree.[/b][/i] - SOLD as new content, and most people dont even realised that.[/quote] [b]>>>>>>>>>>>IMPORTANT<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[/b] [b]Top Tree Analysis:[/b][/u] [i][u][b]>>>>>THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THIS POST, BEFORE COMMENTING/TAKING YOUR CONCLUSIONS, READ THIS AT LEAST.<<<<<[/b][/u][/i] [spoiler][b]1 - Melee now:[/b] Gives 14 secs of increased [b]Reload[/b], [b]Movement Speed[/b] and [u][b]Air Accuracy[/b][/u] [i][u][b]After Solar week:[/b][/u][/i] "Ranged" Melee, [u]no additional effects[/u]. [i](This nerf was not mentioned by bungie).[/i] [b]2 - (Passive) Heat Rises now:[/b] Airborne kills recharge your [b]Grenade[/b] and [b]Melee energy.[/b] Casting Daybreak instantly [u]refills all your ability energy.[/u] [u][i][b]After Solar week: [/b][/i][/u] Spend you grenade to Glide more and gain increased [u]Air accuracy[/u] >>>>>>[u]Read 1st and 2nd point AGAIN: [/u] -They [u]Copied Melee [b]Air accuracy[/b][/u] and PASTED into a grenade while REMOVING 2 other buffs. [u]-They REMOVED the ability refill on super cast[/u]. [i](None of those were mentioned) [/i] [b]3 - (Passive) Winged Sun now:[/b] Engage your enemies mid-flight. Fire weapons and throw grenades while gliding. [i][u][b]After Solar week: [/b][/u][/i] Use your melee, throw grenades,shoot while gliding and final blows grant [b]Melee energy[/b] and extend Heat Rises duration. >>>>>>>>>>…[u]Wait, take a second and read the 2nd and 3rd point AGAIN with caution.[/u] -They copied the Melee recharge from [b]Heat Rises[/b] and pasted that here as a NEW thing -GRENADE recharge (originally from [b]Heat Rises[/b]) was REMOVED [i](Bungie don’t mentioned that as a nerf)[/i] [b]-[u]REALLY important Note[/u]:[/b] After this """Rework"""" Warlocks are [b]forced to consume a grenade to get air accuracy[/b], [b]without the means to recharge it back[/b]. Before that, [b]melee already did it [/b](GIVING 2 MORE BUFFS), [b][i][u]AND could be RECHARGED[/u][/b].[/i] [i](BUNGIE DONT MENTIONED THIS AS A NERF) [/i] [b]4 – Icarus Dash now:[/b] Dodge While Mid-air. On Super, consume energy to dodge faster [i](Note that this was already an advantage if compared to the bottom tree)[/i] [u][i][b]After Solar week:[/b][/i][/u] Dodge While Mid-air, rumor says it will have 2 charges, consume less energy to accelerate faster on super. [i]…Ok, looks like a buff, but even THIS has a big nerf included and guess what: THIS BUNGIE MENTIONED, but in a silly way so the “Big nerf” had less attention, I will explain this below. [/i][/spoiler] [b]About the Bottom Tree:[/b] Had no changes, no big buffs, THAT TREE needed a tweak for real. Then they removed burst glide acceleration on super for both trees, and that is just it. [b][u]This nerf, THIS ONLY NERF, they published: [/u][/b] [quote][i]”As such, we reduced the speed at which Burst Glide accelerates players in Daybreak. We know this is a controversial change but we wanted to reserve the air superiority gameplay with Attunement of Sky and the Burst Glide speed was blurring the lines between both Daybreak paths.”[/i] [/quote] So they tried to play nice and said THIS one was the nerf and all the others were “Good Reworks”. [b]Quick return to the Top Tree:[/b] [spoiler]So, warlocks had Burst glide, no super energy spent. After Solar week, Warlocks will spend SUPER ENERGY in order to recover that gameplay. [u]THAT one they focused to publish as the “Great Lose”[/u], without MENTIONING the entire and Catastrophic NERF done to the top tree, even Worse: [u][b]they glorified:[/b][/u] [quote][i]”We want to give you the gameplay experience that the fantasy begs for: A flying angel who can maneuver with grace and destroy its foes below.” [/i][/quote][/spoiler] [u][b]On this Final part I would like to consider this “Reworked” (Nerfed) tree in a combat situation:[/b][/u] [spoiler]1: The whole point of flying was to [i]recover both grenades and melee (5~6 kills to refill)[/i], t[b]his IS a High-risk High-Reward strategy,[/b] On PvE you get targeted by literally EVERYTHING and PvP makes that nearly impossible. [b]Still is a good incentive to keep Warlocks in the air. [/b] 2: There is a point of getting grenades faster for example, mixed with a “Enhanced super reload mod” you can kill enemies in an area of impact to [b]get your super back faster[/b], and having the “Insta refill” addition can make you cycle faster trough abilities and [b]keep you in the air for that. [/b] [/spoiler] [b][u]What bungie gave us: [/u][/b] [i][b][u]>>>>>>>>>>>>IMPORTANT<<<<<<<<<<<<[/u][/b][/i] [spoiler]1: Consume your grenade to glide more, so you can get [b]1/3 of the melee buffs[/b] YOU HAD and you can regenerate [b]ONLY your melee back[/b] to shoot some fireworks at best -- all that while being targeted by the whole world. [i]Note: What to do when you recover your abilities while airborne but has to land soon? [b]a)[/b] Eat up your grenade that may be used for combat and has some reload time [b]b)[/b]JUMP AGAIN AFTER LANDING.[/i] 2: SUPER is just the same without any abilities refill, and warlocks are forced to spend super/grenade to go faster. 3: Did the test on the Knight at the Tribute hall, [b]Grenades have 5x times the damage of a melee attack[/b], and [u]we can bet this new melee is going to be not even close to what a grenade is. [/u][/spoiler] [b]As a Player and a CONSUMER, I feel FOOLED and even worse when I see people that bought this "Solar Week" as an improvement by any way to the warlock subclasses.[/b] If you are a Warlock main, you have nothing to celebrate If you are a Destiny player, wait for more of those, all merged in Server crashes and more empty paid content.[/quote] Upvotes and bumps all around!

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        • My previous post was removed. Here is a link to the new post. https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/254528119/0/0

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        • More accurate than ads shooting a Sparrow. Unless they plan to rework these trees again (which, if so, won't be immediately), then Warlocks lost a huge portion of their Solar potential in PvP for the wrong reasons. Top tree was already a pretty rare sight in PvP, and soon it's going to be either extinct or used just to meme.

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        • A balance pass sold to us as an event, I wonder if they’ll try to sell us another emote

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          • 100% true Unfo this is going to be ignored

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            • PLEASE LOOK AT THIS IF YOU'RE A WARLOCK Check out this Bungie.net forum topic https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/254515674/0/0

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              • I wasn't able to find it but I've been told that top tree will have the ability to Icarus Dash twice before needing a cooldown. I am concerned that this ranged melee will be lackluster. There is a good argument for having one but it needs to be potent or else whats the point?

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                • You need to note hunter's don't have consequences to in air firing when they jump, people found it out when they tried comparing icarus grip on classes at one point for in air firing. So warlocks don't even get to have a positive point for in air play, you have to use your grenade to lessen the bad, not even neutralize it.

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                  • I do have something to celebrate: shooting fireballs out of my fingertips. Now please be kind and alt+f4 out of here.

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                    • Well main devs at Bungie are working on Matter so Destiny is on a backburner and being handled by intern level staff. That's why you see so less fresh content. And you can expect the same in the future as well. More reskins, more D1 maps and weapons coming back, may be D1 enemies like Atheon coming back, etc etc.

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                      • I also made a long detailed post about this. It is like you described - an overall nerf covered in a "buff" which many ppl seem to not realize somehow. The only real buff is 2x Icarus Dash imo. I hope at least your post may get some views and ppl realize that we don't get buffed at all.

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                      • Good nerf.

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                      • Stop playing this like Bungie just murdered an entire orphanage of black kids. It’s not that offensive my guy.

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                        • I actually like the sound of the new top tree. They memed on bottom tree, though.

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                          • Really reaching here. I felt it was pretty plain if you understand the current class and have reading comprehension. I’m only bummed grenade energy gain is going for air kills and it appears all energy in air cast of daybreak. But new melee might be legit, we don’t know, and two dodges in a row will be nice. And I never use burst glide on solar class and the supers function just fine.

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                            • Right on!

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                            • The glide acceleration was nerfed because of the lack of speedrun variety being only Warlocks. Other than that, I don't see why it would matter.

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