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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
Edited by HaonEtat01: 11/9/2018 4:54:09 AM
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D2 sales not up to Expectations

I know everyone has probably seen the stories circulating today about how Destiny 2’s sales are not meeting Activision’s expectations in spite of the up tick created by Forsaken. So I’d like to take this opportunity to point out why I think that is, so here goes: [u]1) Destiny 2 is still not as good as Destiny 1. [/u] Destiny 2, like any good sequel, should’ve taken the solid foundation of Destiny 1, and built upon it to make a game that was bigger and better than its predecessor in every way. Instead Bungie opted to do a soft reboot and destroy everything fans loved about the first game, only to spend the next year slowly trying to fix the game. Forsaken is a major improvement over Destiny 2 year 1 in a lot of ways (but not all), but it’s still a shadow of Destiny 1. A lot of the things that were brought back don’t completely fit. Snipers still feel underused in spite of their return to the special slot (and addition to the primary slot). Bounties feel mostly pointless with the exception of the dreaming city bounties. The mods are still meh. Masterwork cores are far too rare and so having a fully masterworked piece of gear is rare and honestly doesn’t feel worth the amount of materials it takes to do so. [u]2) First impressions are everything. [/u] Anyone who paid attention to the lead up to the launch of the PS4 and Xbox One back in 2013 knows how bad word of mouth can completely destroy a product. Microsoft was set to release an Xbox One that featured an always online requirement, the inability to trade or loan games to friends or family and no used games. As we all know Microsoft eventually pulled a 180 on these things and shipped the Xbox One with none of those features in the final version of the console, but the damage was already done. I remember watching a video online of someone from IGN (I believe) going around campuses and on the street asking regular people if they knew anything about video games and if they’d heard of the Xbox One and the most common response was, “that’s the one that doesn’t play used games, right?”. This was AFTER Microsoft had reversed all of those decisions, but it didn’t matter, word of mouth had already spread and there was no going back. The same thing happened with Destiny 2. Once fans realized what Bungie had done to their beloved series and the backlash began, so did the word of mouth. I still come across people that say things that, “Destiny 2? Didn’t they screw the game up?”. Honestly there’s no going back at this point, they just need to make sure that Destiny 3 is a grand slam. [u]3) The raids just aren’t as good as Destiny 1[/u] All of Destiny 1’s raids are better than Destiny 2’s. You can say that this is opinion, and technically it is, but it’s an opinion shared by the numbers. Last Wish has the lowest completion rate of any Destiny raid and I believe it’s because people are intimidated by it (it took Redeem 24 hours to complete it). The raids in Destiny 2 are way too mechanics heavy. Too much time is spent trying to remember odd symbols or trying to make sure everyone is in a specific place. King’s Fall was a master stroke of raid design. The perfect balance of bosses, jumping, shooting things and puzzles. Same goes for VoG. Crota’s End and WotM were less puzzles and mechanics and more bosses and shooting guys in the face, but if you have to lean more one way than the other, leaning more into the action is always the better bet. At the end of the day the Destiny 2 raids just aren’t as inviting or fun as Destiny 1’s. [u]4) The gear isn’t as good[/u] I had high hopes for the exotics in Forsaken and while some are really great, many leave us reminiscing on the amazing exotics of Destiny 1. First off, rocket launchers are trash in Destiny 2. There’s no other way to say it. Even the Two Tailed Fox was a major letdown. Tracking sucks. They all hold 1 rocket before needing to reload. They just aren’t fun. And why is it that to this day, the majority of the best exotics to ever appear in Destiny were in the base game? The Taken King has a few good ones, but if you ask someone to make a list of their top ten favorite weapons or armor from Destiny 1 or 2, chances are good that most will be Destiny 1 launch items. And I think this is because before the game came out Bungie wasn’t afraid to make gear that was amazing and super fun to use and worth grinding for. It was when they decided to start nerfing everything that things started going down hill. It really says something when all of the best exotics in Destiny 2 are returning Destiny 1 exotics. [u]5) Destiny 2 should never have been made.[/u] Destiny should’ve been like WoW. No new numbered games, just expansions that build upon the foundation of the original game. Bungie’s reluctance to simply go back to the systems that everyone loved in Destiny 1 is a problem. I can understand not wanting to revisit what’s already been done from a design standpoint, but it’s also important to be able to realize when you made a mistake by changing something, and recognizing that maybe you need to to reset back to that original system In order to properly improve upon it. The weapon slot system is a good example of this. In Destiny 1 it was a perfect system that made sense. But while Forsaken’s system is a major improvement over Destiny 2’s horrible system, Bungie’s unwillingness to fully revert to Destiny 1 leaves this weird system that that tries to be everything to everyone but ultimately feels out of place. In Destiny 1 having the one off exotic that was a special but sat in the primary slot or elemental primaries felt really special and fun. I know I went long on this but Destiny is my favorite game series and Bungie my favorite game developer and so I really want to see Destiny succeed. But there have been a lot of disappointing mistakes made in recent years to Destiny that I really hope Bungie is able to learn from. I quit playing Destiny 2 a few weeks ago once I hit 600 because the only thing I had left to pursue were the Forsaken exotics and considering that since Forsaken’s launch I’ve had maybe 10 exotics drop and not a single one was a Forsaken exotic, I didn’t see any point in wasting time grinding for them any longer. And that really sucks to say. At this point Bungie is going to have to learn how to fix Destiny themselves.
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  • D2 [b]QUALITY [/b]not up to Expectations , sales are just a causality of that

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  • Edited by AUTOMATIK 2006: 11/9/2018 2:19:41 PM
    About the 1st impressions- What do you mean? When D2 first came out everyone loved it,.... it took awhile before people started changing their opinions on the game. And Forsaken is the best expansion and made Destiny fans happy, so I disagree with almost everything you said.

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    • I have thought this since Joe and the others left (not that what Joe and team never make crap , but Halo was a great game and story for myself , just my opinion) the game (Destiny) would never meet its potential . D1 was as close to what the original folks had in mind cause the new team didn't have enough time for anything else . Now , in my opinion , not everyone's , D1 is better than D2 . Reasons.... 1) sub class trees controlled the MRR (Mobility , Recovery , Resistance) armor controlled ability cool downs and the cool downs charged faster example I'm looking at my D1 titan right now Intellect 317/300 super cool down 4 minutes.... Discipline 301/300 grenade cool down 25 seconds.... Ok maybe they don't recharge faster but the thing is by having those perks listed value on the screen I feel more involved in my character on how I want it . In D2 we have mods that pretty much do the same thing , for myself it doesn't feel the same with only one mod slot how much time does one ordnance mod actually take off the cool down , I don't know nothing in the game to use as a starting point... As far as weapons go short version D1 has better weapon system than D2... Reasons..... 1....snipers in the secondary slot hit hard.. 2....rockets and machine guns could clear out a room to help clutch a nightfall also more than one shot in rocket launchers..... 3....with only one primary slot you had to find something that really worked well with the play style you have..example my D1 titan has a Shadow Prince that is basically a legendary suros(focus fire , AP rounds , Glass half full ....the 2 extra middle perks are hand loaded and hand laid stock for my play style this is a God Roll I have yet to find anything close to this in D2 ... Ghorn and ice breaker are not game breaking , but for the lols you could have a lot of fun with those 2 crota comes to mind..... Man , this is way tttttooo long....sorry🖖

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      • To this day I believe that Exotics are a gimmick. They were purposefully made to be incredibly strong when the concept first began, to rope players in. Over the years they still cannot top the likes of Gjallarhorn, Vex Mythoclast, or Ice Breaker.

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        • Activision: “We are looking at ways to monetize our players...” Crowd: “Booo!” Activision: “Do you guys not have money?”

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        • The problem is they can't fix it themselves. That's why they had to pay all the streamers to go to them to get them to fix it for them. They're so detached from their fan base and what actually needs done with the game.

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        • i like the forsaken expansion. but as a player who plays on the weekends and holidays. i think the grind is way too much and much of the grind is meaningless. i have only got one forsaken exotic and just three to four exotic engrams in total. hell i am still grinding to reach power level 600 just to do some of the quests.have reached legend in gambit only to realize that from legend only wins increase your points.gambit is not comp. gambit has no end game rewards as such and now this too is a real bummer. reached mythic in valor but will never make it in time to prestige. why reset valor and gambit ranks when they are not tied to comp.bungie has to start valuing peoples time more.

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        • Well written. The positive is that in only a couple months Anthem will be out. I’m excited for the release of this game and looking forward to immersing myself in another franchise.

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          • Destiny is finally dying.

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          • D2 Y1 killed the game. 2 terrible DLCs, bad PvP, lacking content and underwhelming story. It took 1 year for Bungie to realize the mistake and fix everything. 1 year is too much.

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          • I haven't bought Forsaken yet because of Bungie's history with the destiny franchise. Things like often leaving us in the dark,completely remaking destiny 1 and 2 months before release, vanilla d2 removing things that made d1 more enjoyable like strike exclusive loot, and those really short campaigns on the d2 dlcs. I'll keep playing destiny games but from now i'm waiting for dlcs and such to be on sale.

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          • I bought Forsaken but I don't plan on buying the season pass thing. Game feels more like a chore more than anything else so I don't even feel like playing anymore.

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            • You took some time to express your feelings and I completely agree with them. I've wanted to do the same thing but felt "who cares", but im seeing more post so I guess im not alone. To this day I think back of when my fireteam and i would prepare each week for the reset in D1. We had a routine so no matter which dlc dropped we were excited! All of your points are why. It's sad D2 doesn't offer us any interest like D1. We tried to play forsaken but it doesn't grab us. I really want to keep playing but the truth is D1 was better, for us anyway. Maybe one day bungie will be able to peak our interest.

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            • I think it's all about #2 on your list. First impressions matter — a lot. They abandoned so much of what worked with D1, and as a result, players bailed. Lack of endgame, Eververse, shallow loot pool, XP gate, the flimsiness of the Osiris DLC ... what else did they expect? Players do have choices, and many chose to leave the game. Some have come back, but many have not and probably yet will not. This isn't a Titanfall 2 situation, where the game was amazing but EA gave them a shit release window because Respawn wasn't trying hard enough to gouge consumers with MTX. Bungie have only themselves to blame for the way things have gone for D2.

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              • Sales are bad because they burned the playerbase with D2 launch and have no idea what kind of game they want to make, and they can't seem to find a balance that enough people like. D2 launch was too casual, Forsaken has too much grind Exotics drop like candy year one, I can't get a single forsaken one in year two. 4v4 crucible, nope now it's back to 6v6 We want it to be a hobby, nope we need more sales and need to appeal to a larger playerbase See their conundrum?

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              • The problem here is that Bungie and Activision are not going to “fix” this issue so much as add more microtransactions in order to further monetize the game. It’s disgusting and I had a feeling this was coming when they announced Forsaken, which is why I myself never bought the expansion. I won’t give anyone connected to Activision anymore money because that’s all they care about. I get that you have investors to appease but when you exploit your fans over and over it’s worse in the end because they just stop buying your products at all.

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              • Well duh it's pretty obvious after them offering destiny 2 free for ps4 and just recently to pc Not to mention the none stop begging that Bungie is doing for refer a friend Bungie is the only company to blame for Destiny's underwhelming performance

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                • 3
                  scot problems
                  scot problems

                  a91aac7b - old

                  The problem isn't really sales it's the fact the game stopped pushing micro transactions as aggressively so they aren't making as much money from it Activision only care about the stream of revenue to appease investors the quality or customer satisfaction is irrelevant. I'm not bashing them it's just the reality of the business they weren't disappointed with destiny until recently because for a long time tess everace made up a large portion of the end game. The real problem is they may force Bungie to revert back to a more micro transaction heavy model which would surely be the final deathnell of the franchise for its more dedicated fans

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                  • Wait until Black Armory dlc drops, no new Exotics so far as we know, old exotics coming back possibly, no new strikes, no new planets and a possibly small campaign. Cant wait for crap to hit the fan, lol.

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                  • Just because people are intimidated by a raid doesn’t mean it’s a bad raid.

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                    • Edited by SimplestFishie: 11/10/2018 4:06:38 AM
                      Ugh, never start an argument with “it’s not as good”. It’s a bad place to start, and the way you portray your reasoning shows the basis of your argument is purely about feelings. Skipped the rest of your post because of this. Fundamentally destiny 2 is better than 1, the game is runs better, looks better and is open to more platforms, which is why activision would’ve expected higher sales, and I guarantee you didn’t bring that up in your slanderous misinformed post. Upon lightly reading over your post and select comments, seeing these people agree with you and calling this a “well written post” disgusts me. This post is entirely based upon your personal biased opinion, you clearly have an affliction to destiny 1, an incredibly flawed game. You raise it to some impossible standard. It took redeem 19 hours to complete one of the most difficult, conflicting raids. People like you are impossible to argue against because of your sickening mob mentality, it barely illicit’s a response.

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                      • Kings Fall was worse than Last Wish. Change my mind.

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                        • [quote][u]1) Destiny 2 is still not as good as Destiny 1. 3) The raids just aren’t as good as Destiny. 5) Destiny 2 should never have been made.[/u][/quote] The problem is people not looking at the situation as it is. D1 is over, it's gone, Bungie has let that ship sailed and it is what it is. To that point critique D2 as it is as in its' current state [i]post[/i] forsaken. Not as it was at launch. Now I'm not saying forgive and forget, not the slightest. Bungie continues to make mistake after mistake and finally people have wised up and moved on. We see that now and all this will be a rolling theme to tie back into all my points. [quote][u]2) First impressions are everything. [/u][/quote] How many times has Bungie promoted refer a friend? You don't need to promote something that players already know about if they are [i]actually[/i] referring their friends. If people are not happy with something than why would they recommend it to others? PC recently offered D2 for free. D2 still has a bad stigma from when the PC community got screwed over during D2 launch and they remember that. Offering something for free after people have bought it is not going to increase the player count. Check your achievements, when I got into the dreaming city for the first time less than 5% of players had too. I looked them up again about three weeks ago and the numbers were low. Less than 3% completed a Forsaken Nightfall, less than 1% for the Last Wish Raid. [spoiler]So what does that mean? From my understanding, first you have to be a authenticated account meaning your profile has to have accumulated x amount of playtime for it to be authentic. Then said profiles have to be authenticated by the IP, in this case D2. Bungie's words for this are players that have reached the farm. (Remember the great forum purge from this?) So that means at least on Xbone is that out of all the authenticated xbla's accounts that have D2, and that have made it to the Farm. As of 3 weeks ago less than 3% have done a Forsaken NF and less than 1% competed the raid.[/spoiler] The player numbers are low and the Activision earnings call confirm what I have been watching for awhile. D2 is not in a good spot right now. Yes Forsaken made D2 better but there are still problems that prevent it from being good instead of great. Even then Bungie keeps making deals with devils. First was Activision, now they have signed a deal with NetEase (a 100 million USD deal btw) for their next IP dubbed "Matter". [spoiler]Now who is NetEase? They are the Chinese version of EA and Activision [i]combined[/i]. No game related deal goes down in China without NetEases' approval and profit to line their pockets with gold.[/spoiler] Say whatever you want that thing is going to be on mobile riddled with MTX's. Speaking of MTX's... Back to the earnings call, Activision says to improve the profits from Destiny is not fixing the problems, not listening to feedback, not righting past wrongs, they said they want to increase the footprint of MTX's in Destiny. Umm these corporate clowns do remember CoO, the Dawning, Festival of the Cost and [b]all[/b] the pushback from players from the MTX's from them right? For once, [i]for once[/i], the MTX's in Destiny feel fair. If a game is good players will play it, if a game is great players will support it. As I said before Forsaken is good but not great. I have said this once, twice, thrice and as many times I can. Our word of mouth has more impact on a Destiny than any amount of PR or Press can overcome yet Bungivision does not realize that even when the numbers show it. Bungie needs to invest in their veterans, we are the ones that play Destiny through the good times [i]and[/i] the bad. [quote][u]4) The gear isn’t as good[/u][/quote] The gear is still too static even after the random rolls. Random stats and rerolling the masterwork stat (something we could do in D2Y1 and got rid of post forsaken, one step forward two steps back.) Offering relevant gear through the vendors and change up the perks and stat rolls from reset to reset. The lack of ability to mod, reroll the masterwork stat and reroll the base stats on exotics. These can increase the depth of horizontal progression once the vertical 600 progression is over.

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                          • Points 2,3 and 4 are pretty good. I agree. Points 1 and 5 are nonsensical. D1 was a super flawed game that turned to utter trash in Y3. It needed an overhaul. To be fair, Destiny 2 didn’t do a good job of that but (by forsaken) it has surpassed D1 in my eyes. D1 was just -blam!-ing broken from glitches raids to weapons like thorn. The nostalgia is too strong for you boys, take a step back. Also, Forsaken did poorly most likely because they targeted fans instead of new players in the marketing by killing cayde and they stopped pushing micro transactions. If you listen to the sales call by activision, they never say forsaken itself sold poorly or that the quality of the expansion affected sales negatively.

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                          • D2 started out built on a ton of lies and subpar game play. Then came the Osiris disaster and most longtime fans got burned too bad and left for a really long break. They didn't come back for warmind and many haven't come back for Forsaken. They just had it with being disappointed. Forsaken is great and inline with what D2 should have been from the start but not many people are willing to give it a try at this point. Whoever made the call to make D2 a game for 5 and 6 year olds should have been fired immediately after the player base started to vanish and all hell broke loose in the forums and social media. Bungies hype machine has a bad rep now and the only thing that will fix it is to be consistent and truthful with expectations and also to be innovative with game play. Reskinning and re-issuing old weapons is not a good move at this point. People are really getting sick of it. If you can't make a new weapon type or implement new mechanics in the game then maybe Bungie should only make games for phones where the requirements are not as high.

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                            • It's time for bungie to ditch activision.

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