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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
originally posted in:The Ashen Conflux
Edited by KAGEHOSHI: 1/16/2016 8:37:37 PM
53

Hive Throne Worlds & The 11 Axioms

[b]If victory is truth, then war is argument, and a sword is... logic. [/b] These strange and brutal truths define the higher planes of reality ruled by Hive gods—the throne worlds, also known as ascendant realms. They are universes created by the will and might of gods, beings with sufficient sword logic, as a place for which to be reborn upon death. Ascendant realms have their own laws, or axioms, which govern reality. This makes them distinct from physical reality. I will attempt to describe the eleven axioms governing these realms as the nerdy Ir Anuk once did. [quote]Already you are grown, my daughter, already you are a wizard. Have I been away so long? Now you are Ir Anûk, and Savathûn cackles and rages at your brilliance. [b]You have written eleven axioms describing the ascendant places, our throne world[/b]. You have announced that you will kill one of these axioms, as Akka would kill the truth, and in mantling Akka you will become a God, as I am. (Verse 4:7 — shapes : points)[/quote] An axiom is a truth that is self-evident or well established. I identify and describe them thus: [b]I) SWORD LOGIC[/b] Sword logic, the gaining of power from killing, is the law of the ascendant realm. This applies to everyone within them, and not just those who carry the worms like the Hive do. Killing someone gains you not only the sword logic of killing them, but also the sword logic that they have accumulated. This means to kill a god is to become a god. While swords are not necessary to gain sword logic, swords, blades, and other weapons that physically bridge a target to their killer are subject to sword logic—they grow more powerful with each kill. EDIT: To clarify, [b]You don't need to use a sword for sword logic to apply[/b]. sword logic still applies even without the sword, it's just that using a sword makes the sword also grow stronger. [quote]A Shredder or a Boomer is a powerful weapon, but it kills acyclically. You see? It sends out harm and it takes nothing back. The bolt passes away into nothing. A sword, though, a sword is like a bridge, a crossing-point. The sword binds wielder to victim. It binds life to death. And when the binding is done—the sword remembers. When the Boomer's fire has burnt away into axion and neutrino scatter, the sword goes on, hungrier and sharper. [...] remember that the greatest authority here is a blade made keen by eons of use. (Ascendant Sword)[/quote] [quote]You’re a god yourself, now. You’ve consecrated yourself. (Oryx: Defeated)[/quote] [quote]the[b] sword logic, which defined all rules in Oryx’s throne world[/b]. The geometry perplexed them. [...] the Vex ritual-of-better-thoughts manifested a Mind called Quria, Blade Transform. Quria deduced the sword logic. [b]I have to kill everything, Quria resolved. Then I will be powerful.[/b] (Verse 4:9 — open your eye : go into it)[/quote] [b]II) VICTORY DICTATES ONTOLOGY[/b] To win is to be true and real. Conversely, to lose is to be false and not real. [quote]Oryx inhabits a world where power is truth. To win is to be noble, and to be real. (Echo of Oryx)[/quote] *Axiom 1 and 2 explain why killing an axiom (or any truth) makes one into a god. To kill a truth is to become more true yourself through the sword logic, and by killing the highest of truths (the axioms) thus makes you the highest of beings. [b]III) THE THRONE WORLD IS THE GOD-MIND[/b] A throne world is an extension of the mind and will of the god that creates it. This is why Hive gods can come back if they are killed; their minds (throne worlds) recreate them into being, and from there they can reenter physical reality. A god is the strongest thing inside it's throne world because it's an extension of it's own mind, but if that god is killed and surpassed in sword logic, it makes sense that the world would recognize the god's killer as it's new god, since it is the strongest thing in the throne world. Because it is the extension of the mind of a god, it makes sense that it requires a god to continue existing, or otherwise, what is it an extension of? It therefore follows from the third axiom that the architecture of these places is dependent on a god. [quote]my mind is now a cosmos of its own. (Verse 3:3 — fire without fuel)[/quote] [quote]That its true power resides in a netherworld forged by his will. We must pass through a keyhole between realities, navigate the seething midnight of Crota's [b]world-mind[/b]. (Crota's End)[/quote] [quote]There must be a strongest one. It is the architecture of these spaces. (King's Fall)[/quote] *Axiom 2 and 3 combine to explain why Hive gods stay dead when killed in their own throne worlds. To be defined as false in an extension of one's mind forces one to accept that one's existence is false, and the extension of your mind (the throne world) will no recreate you. It's like being forcibly convinced of an argument, so the power of your mind no longer accepts your existence. I find this super interesting. [b]IV) HIGH CONTEMPT[/b] The ascendant realms "look down" on physical reality, perhaps meaning that these realms are superior and more real and complete. [quote]I write to you from a place of high contempt. No no no, don’t be offended, don’t be so superficial — it’s in the architecture of these spaces. They look down on you. (Echo of Oryx)[/quote] [b]V) CONSERVATION OF PHYSICAL LAWS[/b] Objects and beings from the physical universe bring with them the physical laws necessary for their existence. This must be an implied rule because it is the laws of our universe that makes it so that matter, life, and everything else can form and exist as they currently do, and yet we can exist in the throne worlds which have completely different laws. If another universe has different laws while somehow having our matter retain form and function, it must therefore allow objects from our universe to import their own laws for those objects to not fall apart. [b]VI) ASCENDANT GEOMETRY[/b] Abstract concepts have no physical realness or quiddity, but Hive seem to be able to make abstract concepts as real as physical objects when inside the ascendant realm. This is the principles behind deathsongs, and oversouls; death is a shape which can be invoked as a weapon because of the unique properties of these worlds. Like death, the abstract concept, or "shape," of lies can be chewed and converted into weapons like poisons by a Hive wizard. death is just a word, isn't it? A catch-all term for the failure to go on, nothing spiritual, nothing with its own quiddity. We all died once, and it did not prove insurmountable. [quote]But what if what if what if, shhh listen, what if death were reified, described in its totality, made autonomous and universal, separate from any context or condition? What if She could invoke the ending of anything? (Ir Yût, the Deathsinger)[/quote] [quote]Gather up the Lie Shapes Neither eat nor mock them, as you crave Instead, learn to chew them into poisons (Balwûr)[/quote] *I can't figure out anymore axioms others than the last, but given how the Hive love the color green, [i]there's probably an axiom somewhere which states that green is the best color[/i]. I'm jumping straight to the last one now: [b]XI) THE LAST TRUE SHAPE[/b] The Last True shape, also known as the Darkness is the ultimate truth, the final axiom, and thus the most real and powerful force in the ascendant realm. [quote]I am Oryx, Lord of Shapes, Carver of Tablets Behold my performance of the Last True Shape The final axiom. (Echo of Oryx)[/quote] [quote]Then Auryx said, “Now I may speak to the Deep, the beautiful final shape. (Verse 3:8 — King of Shapes)[/quote] [quote]the Darkness-which-is-the-Deep. (Verse 5:7 — Forever And A Blade)[/quote] If you can deduce more axioms, feel free to post them in the comments below. [b]For more theories by me, I refer you to the [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/183288968/0/0]Collected Treatises of The Warlock KAGEHOSHI[/url].[/b]

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  • Have you discussed anything about Xivu Arath's throne world? Crota, Oryx, and possibly Savathun's all seem to be similar pocket universes. Xivu Arath's throne world seems by far the most abstract and difficult to conceptualize. Also, a death in another being's throne world constitutes a permanent death correct? This seems to be another somewhat difficult key fact to nail down. It seems like there's a middle ground 'death'. - It's safe to assume many Ascendant hive have throne worlds. But Oryx's daughters were killed in Oryx's throne world, not their own. And yet they seemingly died permanent deaths. I - I'll also mention when Oryx killed Savathun and Xivu Arath in his throne world to gain the sword logic of killing them to overpower the Ecumene. It is mentioned they died permanent deaths, but then came back as well.

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