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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
9/18/2017 1:58:12 PM
27

Trials Is A Giant Bottleneck Of Crushing Anguish Burning Through The Sentiment

Hate It!

121

Love It!

107

Don't Know, It Crashed!

24

Where on earth do I begin? And what were they thinking? Countless multi-flawless opponents against our new team. Lagging and poor hit registry. Disappearing characters during game. Destiny crashes EVERY SINGLE DAY. Player drop-outs mid-game, mid-streak. Arch weapon domination. Low 278 power rewards. Recurring 6 to 1 losses. A single uncharacteristically spaced out map. It's not a single issue, it's a chaotic mess of problems. I don't even know why the hell I'm playing games consisting of 75% of people from all over the planet. You can empty two whole SMG mags on someone and it doesn't register. It never happens in Battlefield, because multi-regional games simply don't work for PvP. It's just one step away from Peer-to-Peer servers.

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  • Well after 10 days of the Crucible and another 10 hours of Trials with a good team, no rewards and no win, not to mention the countless hours on D1, I'm cashing in my chips. Time to leave the casino folks. Enjoy it if you do, but that's what Destiny is to me; a casino first person poker machine. Spend all your spare cash and time rolling the dice, when the house is geared to win. It's not just a pay to play a game that's fundamentally fun. It has a giant carrot dangling in front of you for hours and days, and it's insanity to keep it up. Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting the experience to get better. Roulette or poker is not about skill, or gameplay, it's about playing it often enough to finally land a win, regardless of how much you lose along the win. If you've never been to a casino, you have now. They peddle it because the model works. An illusion show, but no real magic. Trials has given me the chance to realise just how disappointed I am, not just win Bungie's casino, but with video games in general. If I had to take away what I actually did with my life for every minute I was playing video games, it would be a dude sitting on a chair with a fidget device in hand while staring at a screen. Pretty lifeless really. Because I never went to Titan, and fought in a galactic war, hell I didn't even take a BMX for a spin. I've done nothing but waste my life. And this game is supposed to be the best out. I'm happily leaving, and glad it came to this. Good riddance casino fodder.

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  • I mean, idk what you had, but I had a really fun trials experience on my 2 characters running flawless, and we only had one teammate disconnect.

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  • If I was actually good at Trials I would enjoy it.

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  • [spoiler]Novel incoming, I'm writing this over the course of a few hours in between work so it'll probably be long[/spoiler] I enjoy the game mode and basic idea, but I really think Trials was fundamentally a bad idea that can easily hurt the game more than it helps; especially with the new matchmaking. As it currently stands, you just toss the whole playerbase into a meat grinder and naturally the ones who do the most PvP stomp the majority of others. So they go flawless pretty easily and keep playing because it's not stressful, while a lot of unlucky people struggle to get 3 games without a match against a flawless team right now. Skilled players feel good about it because they're on top (much of the ground beef feels otherwise), and so when an issue is raised they defend the current lighthouse system when it doesn't even give anything unique beyond the emblem to our knowledge. To clarify, I don't have an issue with rewarding high performance. What I don't like is the matchmaking Bungie has to implement to keep the mode from getting really, really awful; connection is prioritized, and they don't care much about skill or even your win count this time around. PvP people will like the matchmaking, and that's understandable because they haven't taken the shitty side of it up the ass for 5 hours straight, and to them connection is more important than skill balance because when skill balance is poor they're not usually on the bottom. All they need to care about is that they're getting matches that tend to go well with faster matchmaking and better connections, and that's a fair perspective because they have their own priorities and values. It's less fair to average players, who can now get the same gear by bashing out difficult matches anyways, that the game has gone from "work your way up until we throw better opponents at you, improve as a player, and you'll get cool stuff as you learn to keep up" to "hit your head against this wall for hours on end and you'll get cool stuff, it might go well or you may hate the entirety of the Crucible team with a burning passion by the time this is over but you'll get the cool stuff and remember this pain every time you equip it." It's just not fun to get crushed by a team so much better that you can't learn anything, and while that shouldn't ever be allowed to happen it can hit you anywhere from uncommonly to every other match depending on skill level. The rewards aren't good enough to justify that for many people, and so the mode's probably going to see a decline like in D1 if the map changes and it's still a pub stomp scout fest. They've tried to make its population more stable by making rewards more accessible, but the change in matchmaking offsets that by removing the reliability of matchup quality. Now, the problem I have with Trials is that I can't see a viable way to fix that issue that fits with Bungie's design choices. The best suggestion I could give for game experience would be a ranked bracket system, similar to a MOBA or Overwatch's ranked mode. More skilled players would have a more even experience, less skilled players would have an experience they can learn from, there's usually a tangible way to get a sense of your improvement, and you can very easily weight it to reward working your way up to a more skilled level (either through increased rewards based on your tier or unique gear drops at higher ones) while still letting the low ranks not feel pointless. People would eventually settle into an intensity level suitable to them, and feel appropriately rewarded for it. However, while I think it would be best for the mode's longevity this would fundamentally violate major decisions regarding the Crucible. The first would be the focus on good connection and faster queue times, I've already said why I don't like this but it's what they chose to prioritize and I'll respect that. The second, and the bigger one, is the decision from the very beginning to allow players to bring their own gear and ability progression into the Crucible. Ranked playlists work on a basis of doing everything possible to isolate skill as what decides victory. Any MOBA, Overwatch, and even ranked playlists in Halo now explicitly start players out with a predefined kit (or choice between multiple predefined kits) and give them standardized options with relatively few gameplay customizations. That makes the mode more about how you use your tools than which ones you've grinded for. And Destiny just fundamentally doesn't allow for that because of how the game's systems are designed. So what we're left with is a moshpit "high intensity" mode where you go in and it's usually a stomp one way or another. The people who do well enough or are fortunate enough to get more even/favorable matchups will like it, while many others won't because it feels like kissing a brick wall at 20mph for the chance of rewards. And then, because this is the "pinnacle of PvP," the complaints about guns that supposedly ruin the experience start pouring in. And then a gun becomes widespread in Trials because players want to see what its deal is. And then it becomes widespread in Crucible because it becomes somebody's favorite weapon after they do well with it. And then Bungie has a choice. They either neglect this niche-enjoyment mode to focus on things more players will like, or they give it attention and inadvertently make changes that affect a weapon or ability in every single part of the game, usually for the worse (upgrades or side-grades are rare if D1 is any indication). And then people realize Trials is setting the pace for the meta and balancing, and they start following its trends more closely. And we keep finding problem children, and Bungie nerfs them, and the guns that held up to them are the new problem children. Then, all of a sudden, you get things like the sniper meta that happened not because they were buffed but because every other option was nerfed into the dirt. Just because they can nerf weapons individually now doesn't mean this can't happen. It just means there's more layers between Crucible now and the potentially inevitable. Alternatively, Bungie can also do what they tried to do this time by making the mode more accessible while simultaneously attempting to appeal to its previous audience who wanted it to keep a high skill requirement (while not mutually exclusive, these things are not helpful to each other). If making Trials more of a mainstream diversion looked like it'd be successful, I'd be all for this. But as it stands they've managed to create something I can't see successfully expanding, and I'm worried they'll start pumping resources into it beyond what its place in the game warrants. Obviously this is all just my interpretation, probably a bit disjointed because of the time between starting and finishing writing. Other opinions or points one way or another are always welcome. I'll also happily provide a tl;dr if anyone wants it.

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    • I didn't think it was too bad. Only ran 2 cards: five wins on first attempt with first time playing as a team with clan mates. Second attempt went flawless with only one very tough game. You can get lucky with who you play, considering we ran into some teams that had absolutely no idea what to do and no business playing with the weapons they had equipped.

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    • Had a blast so far, aiming for the full flawless set. Gonna take a while I know but it'll be worth it in the end.

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    • First run, flawless no losses.

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    • It just feels like every match is one sided

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    • It honestly feels like you are not able to make a comeback in 2 or three of your team members die

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      • Trials is the most rewarding its ever been for the casual pvp crowd (im one of them). You used to have to complete bounties, get 5 wins, 7 wins, or flawless to get rewards and unless you went flawless you got the lower tier non "adept" weapons. Now all you do is win 1 or 2 games per card and use the reputation to get rewards and you can play all weekend long and get rewards as much as you like. And if anyone in your clan goes flawless you get trials gear for grins! That's crazy! I can't seem to go flawless but I have several pieces of gear just from going in and playing for fun. However I agree with most everything you said. I shouldn't have to play against a team with 2-3 flawless players if I haven't gone flawless for the week. But at the same time I don't care because I will get rewards anyway and that's what actually matters to me. Lag sucks and I was disconnected when we were 2-0 and winning our 3rd game 5-1.

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      • trials in general is a flawed idea and needs work imo, otherwise, why bother playing it ? i might as well do something valuable with my time.

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      • We only lost 5 rounds on the way to the lighthouse. Puddlehouse. Whatever you want to call it. People don't want to work together, and that's why they lose.

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        • It's great, all YOUR point are opinions (except for shitty connections and constant disconnecting) other than that I absolutely love trials of the nine. And the arch weapons thing is due to the map this week. Next week it'll be a more close quarters map hopefully so I can enjoy my better devils fully

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        • I only won a total of 4 matches😑 played until 3 in the morning to at least try and finish the third challenge. Just wasn't meant to be😷

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        • 80% of the guys I've played with have never won more than two games. We get thrown into the 5th match of a winning opponent streak and lose 6 to 1. We also played a few if the same fireteams several times. A bunch of us beating each other and going nowhere. We even played against a couple of low stat fireteams and were owned, but I think that has to do with the fact Destiny has two second kills as opposed to Battlefield, which allows players more gunfight time.

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        • I think it's super unfortunate for average players that the card system was removed. It was a super sweaty system that allowed the first few games to be relatively casual... now your first consists of running into people on flawless.... often.

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          • Got flawless my first run through. Not hard

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          • 2
            You get low 278 power rewards cause your light level is low. My drops are atleast 290

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          • Putting all of the technicalities aside, losing a match makes me feel like shit, like I really let the team down. The whole mojo goes right out the window. It's not just like, "Well that was a bad game.", like in BF1, it's worse for some reason. Everyone just goes quiet, sometimes well into the next match. No one has any new ideas, it's just someone's dead, now your round is doomed, then you're down 2 matches and grind your way through another 4 for a loss.

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          • Easy triple flawless.

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          • Love it :) easiest flawless runs I've ever had... And I've a ton on D1.. D2 Trials is easy.

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            • We played 1 laggy game out of 9, only played 9 games but overall the connection was decent. Your engrams drop at 278 because of your light level obviously, mine dropped at 282/283.

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              • They got rid of win based cause trash cans like yourself can stop crying about 3 win reset elo farming...

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                • It's a total meat grinder, but I accept it wasn't made for people like me. I shall be the first for the mill. I shall squeak by with enough wins for rank tokens and complete my set anyways hahahah

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                • Edited by BaconRiot: 9/18/2017 10:47:49 PM
                  Played pretty well for me. I had one game that we were winning 5-1 only to get booted to orbit and bestowed a "tie"-game... This was depressing for the guy in my party who hadn't gone flawless yet as it was gonna be our 6-0 victory. Aside from that connection felt fine.

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                • Yeah, the way my Battlefield squad puts it... Destiny multiplayer just has zero consistency. BF and MW makes sense and ramps well. We worked hard and live at the top. This is simply up and down every game. It's completely unpredictable and undoes what we expect from modern FPS gaming.

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