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Edited by BASTET:
6/16/2017 10:25:39 AM
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An open letter. About "The Shelf".
[b]Bungie;[/b]
Though you do not care, because you are a large company and I am a small consumer, and you have a large product and I am only one unit, and you provide a service and I only hope to enjoy it - I have something to say.
In brief forays into the forum community, I've been called a 'desticle' for defending the original game and what it was, I've been called overly negative for critiquing it. I've made fun of the dubious story telling, and also dove deep into what was there to create original characters and stories for people to read which highlight in one way or another little known facts from out there in the loreverse. Still, I am aware that I, and every other fan of your work, don't really matter on an individual level.
I'm okay with that.
When I have defended this game - though it did not matter because the sales would be what they are and people who want to play it will play and people who don't won't - it was usually on the basis that the game was 'pretty fun' and [i]look at all of these things D1 sets up[/i]. Complex stories which lead the audience to question whether or not the Darkness is a physical thing, look upon the Exo Stranger, a character with enough lines to be counted on one hand, is [b]somehow extremely essential to the story as a whole[/b], to ponder the existence and motives of the Vex, respect the power of the Queen of the Reef, doubt the Speaker, but doubt his detractors as well - the depth and intrigue is what I would introduce to anyone who isn't on the fence.
Yes, D1 sucked at displaying this depth. We know. But just [b]look[/b], look at what they tried to do, look at what they're going to do. Look at the hints in the name of the game itself, the dance of 'causal' and 'acausal' and 'paracausal' actions. Look how relatable Oryx is, beyond just being a big ugly space monster. The Hive have been following the Darkness! They've seen it do things, they saw what it did to us, they've been riding around in its wake for so long!
They're our enemy, but there are hints that not all of them fully embrace being the Dark's janitors. They could help - Taox could help! There's [b][i]SO MUCH[/i][/b].
...that's what I would have said. I'd have said it excitedly and, though I know I do not matter, I've excited a few other people as well. Convinced people who didn't even play D1 to jump into D2 because hell, [i]I got robbed by buying D1 but now they've got their shit together and look at the stories they can explore[/i]. And I really, truly believed that would happen.
Maybe he misspoke. Maybe things are being taken out of context. But we do want some resolution to who the Exo Stranger was. There is a fixation on that character because - who was she talking to off screen? If that single character she spoke to wasn't significant, then that means there are more than one. So who are they? Who is she with? Why did she help us? Future War cult? Praedyth? Any of it? Clearly she didn't have time to explain, but [i]you do[/i] and if she'll mysteriously never be seen or heard from again then that might even be a proper send-off if it weren't so clear that she'd be around.
The only consistent narrative thread in D1, just... shelved? Mara Sov, 'shelved'? It took a lot of energy and enthusiasm to feel as though something was gotten out of D1's story, and - though I am one consumer and I do not matter - we single consumers who decided to dig into the lore are almost inevitably going to feel like this is a big fond f--- Well I can't even say what it would be, or I'll be banned from the forums for swearing.
But you get the point.
Bungie. We don't know what D2 will be like until we see it. I know. It could be great, I want it to be amazing. But if you've truly taken all those possibly amazing and deep story threads and replaced them with as many snarky lines from Cayde "Buck" Fillion as you can pack into a few cutscenes, then you'll have finally shaken this single meaningless consumer off of your back.
Yes yes, I know comments section. Those who remain will be glad those like me finally gave up and bounced.
I guess what I'm trying to say, Bungie, is that [i]I didn't want to[/i]. I still don't want to. And I want to stop being given reasons to. Yes, it's just a game. It's not essential to my life which, despite what some comments to this will suggest, is going rather well. It is a hobby though. It's a way I choose to spend my free time. The message I am receiving is that, well, even if I found something which seemed really cool and unique to extract out of this game as a passtime... I shouldn't have. I should have spent my time elsewhere.
Is that really the message you want to send to each, individually meaningless, consumer?
Sincerely,
A Concerned Fan
(AKA Ricochet.)
EDIT: I'm not doing multiple edits. Thanks for taking the time to respond - and I wanted to note that someone suggested that maybe...
[spoiler]Bungie just doesn't have time to explain why they don't have time to explain.[/spoiler]
After a day of this post, conclusion follows:
[spoiler]CONCLUSION: Given the votes on the poll, the responses etc... I have reached a conclusion. No matter how I slice it, even combining the activity of several similar posts, [i]there is literally no way Bungie would care anyway[/i]. I can see represented maybe 1,500 players, and that's being terribly optimistic. There's no reason Bungie would care about that opinions of that few people, even if they all agreed one direction or another.
With that in mind - yeah, their decisions make perfect sense. Some people really liked the lore as it was being set up, but [i]that's simply not a large enough number for giving a shit about them to make sense[/i]. This includes the lore video content producers on Youtube, things like Ishtar Collective, it just doesn't add up. Maybe a few hundred thousand of their units total actually cared about that?
They're better served making something entertaining for everyone else - the new player, and the player who never cared to look outside of the game for what was going on. Purely factually, as a numbers game, this makes absolute perfect sense.
Three years ago, someone responded to a post I'd made reminding me that since I clearly bought the game, as well as a lot of other people, there was a 0% chance of a f^ck being given. [b]That person was correct.[/b][/spoiler]
English
#Destiny
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1 Reply
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[quote]But if you've truly taken all those possibly amazing and deep story threads and replaced them with as many snarky lines from Cayde "Buck" Fillion as you can pack into a few cutscenes, then you'll have finally shaken this single meaningless consumer off of your back.[/quote] This sums up what I think D2 will be. No depth. No continuity. Just new characters to cosplay (according to Smith). Destinys entire story is nothing but loose ends & standalone DLC. Destiny 2 seems like it will be the same based on the interview.
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3 RepliesEdited by riki1kenobi: 6/15/2017 8:28:49 PMI wrote this reply on another post but I think it deserves a post here too....... Destiny - is being rewritten by someone with a different vision for how it should be. How is that wrong? Imagine JK Rowling comes up with the idea for a story about a boy, who against all odds survived the death stroke of the greatest dark wizard that ever existed! She begins writing Harry Potter and The Philosophers Stone (or whatever they changed it to outside the UK). And then once the publisher decides to take it on start interfering in it. "Why is Harry a boy? A wizard? Hogwarts? No no no that'll not do!" So they start ordering her to change the characters and the storyline. She refuses and the book gets printed as is. They sack her but keep the licence, hire someone else to write book 2 and call it Harry Potter and The Chamber of Secrets subtitled Geraldine Plankton and the Bumfluff in her Asshat. Fans of poor Harry are dismayed to find that he isn't even in book 2. Nor are Hermione and Ron. They've been replaced by Guff and Buffoon, who are placed into Hufflepuff, obviously, by the Sorting Asshat. Oh and Hogwarts was obliterated and everything in it gone as well, but NOT by Lord Voldemort, as he was in Ibiza with Dumbledore and Professor Snape, but by an evil Turtle called Dominic. But they still killed Dobbie 😭 you basteroids It's kinda like that 👍🏻 Oh and an addendum: Some folks are saying it's like Mass Effect 2 where people could jump in without playing Mass Effect and enjoy a fantastic game. Yeah, maybe, but what IF those same people played ME3, or worse, ME Andromeda first? Not one person would be making the same comparisons, unless they had just woken up from the anaesthetic having undergone a full frontal lobotomy! I don't like the fact that Bungie have just shelved 3 years worth of game for the new shiny. But what really hacks me off is the way they are so blasé about it! They got us to care about a game and now, because reasons, they just throw most of that away and can't understand why folks are a bit miffed 🤔 Toodlepip
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Dude , dont be upset . You didnt know better and given the actual depth of the hidden lore 1 could easily suspect a deep commitment towards expanding and refining the lore from Bungie . Its apparent that some folks at Bungie really put alot of effort into creating a very rich universe with lots of potential. That person or those people must not be very vocal or hold important seats over at Bungie....
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[spoiler]tl;dr is your friend lol[/spoiler] No way of knowing how the game is gonna be. Looks fun, also looks like it changed a lot of stuff for no reason other than MP balance. Not complaining, just making an observation. I have no clue. D2 is, plainly speaking, not gonna have the 3 years worth of content we've gotten used to. Therein, it might feel emptier but more focused. Thankfully it'll hit the ground running with an established fanbase; I'm personally just worried about dropping $60 on a repeat of Y1.
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1 ReplyAs a big lore guy myself, I am quite happy about these things. The initial story of Destiny was the result of a hastily rushed surgery that left its patient worse off than he was before. (I can't take credit for that, a friend described it like that and it is so on point I couldn't help but use it again). Destiny 1's story ended up being an incoherent mess that tried to do the bare minimum so that it didn't -blam!- up any of their further attempts at actually making a good story later down the line. In doing so they asked questions they didn't even have the answers for. With Bungie essentially handcuffed to a corpse, they surprisingly took it with stride since as early as HoW their showed they were getting a good footing even with the crapy hand they were dealt due to such a rich and expansive expanded universe that remained untouched through the hack and slash of the vanilla story. The Taken King was the pinnacle of this by creating a story that blended the expanded universe with what has already happened in game to create a rich and enticing story, if a little simple. Destiny 2 is Bungie's chance to break free of the corpse that is Destiny 1 and prove to people that they can indeed tell an interesting and complex story in the game itself. It is their last real shot at redemption in the larger public eye and if Bungie wants to change public opinion about their game, they need to pull all of the stops. I want to know about the Darkness and the Exo Stranger, but Destiny 2 isn't the game to do it. Before answering any of the questions they didn't want to ask and never had an answer for, they first have to prove to the general public that Destiny is an intellectual property worth investing in. Once they do that they are free to create an ever changing world with interesting characters that pull from the initial game's deep lore. I think only then will Bungie want to answer those deep questions at the heart of the series. [spoiler]Little side note, we may not learn about the Queen in Destiny 2, but we almost certainly will learn about the Reef. Of course we will first turn to them for help. And also with Uldren maybe taking over the House of Kings and all of the Fallen disappearing, there will need to be an explanation for this House of Purple that we keep seeing and that explanation will probably lead back to Uldren. [/spoiler]
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Edited by cq13: 6/17/2017 9:32:22 PMThe lore as we know it is not and was not made by the people currently working at bungie. They have no attachment to the protagonists/antagonists. I am very concerned about how they approach the game by having different "teams". If the creative directors change every 3 months then there's no way you can have ANY cohesiveness to the story. They shot themselves in the foot and they are hoping to start a new with D2.
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I didn't read the entire post, but I'm assuming it's about "the shelf" my copy of Destiny has been collecting dust on since November 2015?
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Brings a 😢 to ones eye
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5 RepliesEdited by ABefuddledLion: 6/16/2017 4:41:30 PMI will honestly miss watching lore videos and doing (the small amount) of research into the lore that I did. The story there is twisting and turning and just incredible. And to remove that feels like a cheap shot to the people that have played and loved this game.
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The thing with Bungie is, they've had so much time (more than three years) to flesh out the game with DLC to perhaps add more to the stories and the lore, hell even some endgame modes that aren't all just centered around raids. But the way they treat their own story and their own characters is abysmal. If you've seen that video where My name is byf talks about how Luke Smith describes D1, referring to the characters like they were just colorful pieces in a bowl of cereal, it is heartbreaking. They stopped caring about D1 a long time ago, not for the sake of D2, but because they knew exactly what they were putting out there, and they knew it was still going to be lackluster even with add ons. Perhaps the only content that feels full and meaningful is the raids, which have you going against supernatural beings that you can visualize actually causing a threat if not stopped(unlike the multiple hidden bosses down in a pit somewhere that aren't bothering anyone but it's SO COOL that you can shoot them like they're just another enemy). So props to the raid designers. Being a player since Beta, I have now come to accept that D1 is in fact an experimental shell of a game where only the gameplay is good and nothing else. For a game with so many factions, sides, etc., the game gives very little reason to care about what you're playing except for that "cool" factor that Deej just loves to shove in our faces with how he phrases things. And that's why I worry about D2. If they were capable of leaving a universe butchered with many open-ended questions and a disappointed fanbase, how will they treat it in the future? Will any interesting lore or reasoning be put into the story, or will it just be YEAH YOURE A GUARDIAN GO SHOOT THINGS for the entire game, dismissing what was advertised immediately? It's funny. I know Bungie won't read this, but I want to put my mind out there. I want to know more about the Hive, and the Darkness, and the history of the Fallen, and the Exo stranger whom we will never see again. It's sad that Bungie doesn't feel the same.
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7 RepliesEdited by LadiesMan217164: 6/15/2017 7:39:57 PMI get what you're saying, I'm a fan of this game's lore (maybe not as avid as some) and I do make an effort to learn and understand. I just feel that the whole thing was disrespectful to anyone who chose to spend a lot of their time looking into the lore - calling Mara Sov nothing more than a 'cosplay character', killing her off and saying her arc is 'shelved' with no evidence that they'll even ever explain what happened to her brother on Mars, the prison, Petra and the reef in general (including our vault stuff there). Saying the Exo stranger story is finished without answering literally any of the questions which the community has been asking, some since vanilla: who does she talk to? where did she come from? where is she now? is she connected to praedyth? is she with Osiris? The truth about the No Time To Explain exotic? etc. They probably 'shelved' Saint-14 and Toland the shattered while they were at it. Calling D1 'issue 0' as if nothing happened in it at all, I guess Oryx wasn't a big deal at all then and any D2 newcomers interested in the lore really don't need to know the origins of the hive including: their 'gods', the worms, how they evolved, how they saw what the darkness was and did, and the books of sorrow. I really hope I'm overreacting here and what he said was simply badly worded. But this is the only thing that's got me worried about D2 (other than the loss of Mars and Venus as destinations, however I can live with it and isn't something that'll stop me playing). I was hoping to see the Exo stranger return in the Osiris expansion but the way it was put makes me now think they're never coming back to her, which is a shame. At launch I'm obviously not expecting loads of new info on all the old storylines, the cabal are the centre focus they need time in the spotlight and D2 has make its own stories and legends. It's just this whole 'shelf' thing makes it seem like they're never coming back to them, not even through DLC. It also seemed to disregard them, as if they're completely useless.
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Bungie cares......about yo money. They tried to set up this huge universe for d1 and failed. They rebooted with a cut up story that failed. They failed massively with grimoire, it should have been in the game as part of the story, not on a website to read on the crapper. I'd rather have them forget about the stranger and the queen and everything else and give us a story all in the game itself that they can handle.
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Yo. Praedyths story is finished.
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Im actually gutted about the exo stranger.. Heres my idea: You meet her in the future, send her back to set you on your path (shes talking to you over comms). You give her the gun back that she gives to you and the cycle goes on... theres your casual loop.
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Edited by dano the hippie: 6/17/2017 4:13:45 AMStroy has the exp stranger is the best representative of d1. My reactions are the same as both. Oh this story/stranger is so msryteroius probably there is a lot to it I cant wait to find out all the secrets and how epic it is... Oh wait it is really nothing. Nothing at all. Move along!! And now after you earn that cool gun. It's pointless in like eight levels. If they leave the stranger in d1. Then I am done with all that mystery that turns to real meh. Hopefully they gave destiny the overhauled story it needs.
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Bravo! This is what drove me away from Destiiny. Too many unanswered story lines. No, I don’t want to wait until 2025 to find out who the stranger is or if we save the traveller or if we can save pradeyth or however you spell it. I also don't like that I've paid for every expansion up to ROI and have not been able to finish not 1 raid before the other came out. In fact, I still have not played through the whole VOG in one play through nor have I truly beat Oryx. Nd lets not even get into the lore. Simply because i dont have the skills to get to the lighthouse ill never get that grimore card so if i want to be true to the game, and not use off shore sites, il never know all the lore of the game. It's frustrating. I really do want to be absorbed into the world of Destiny but before I p8ck up D2, I've got to see some changes first. Like you, I know my opinion doesn't matter and I'll probably get a lot of negative responses but who really cares? I'm just one person letting you know that I understand where you're comij g from.
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Beautiful :* )
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So basically what you're saying is: why the -blam!- are there no dedicated servers? I couldn't agree more
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1 ReplyRemember back in fall of 2016 when the rumors came out that Bungie was hitting the big reset button and none of our gear would migrate to Destiny 2? There were those that refused to believe it and there were those, like me, who advocated for a reset to Destiny. It's the price that has to be paid to fix this game.
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2 RepliesSo what you're basically saying is... nerf fusion rifles?
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13 RepliesEdited by STEL: 6/16/2017 4:10:51 PMThe Lore of Bungie, 1. The Start of Bungies fall… When Bungie left Microsoft their loyal fan base (I was included) stayed with Bungie for many reasons; reasons that I do not want to list at this point because the current Bungie has taken a $$it on them. I will call this fan base “Legends”, Legends; because we were with Bungie since Day 1 and no, I am not talking about day 1 with Destiny…. We all heard about the project that Bungie wanted to work on and the innovative experiences they wanted to develop long before ODST. We heard how MS put their thumb on Bungie and forced them to continue the Halo series, hence why we had ODST and Reach. Bungie still had a drive to build a new game that would blow the doors off the of gaming industry, which lead to the separation during Halo 4, and 343 took the mantle. 343 DESTROYED the entire Halo series in one game; Halo 4, and just to make sure it was down their double tap in Halo 5. 2. Bungie is on its own… With funds dwindling and its “Aerospace” program, not bringing in the revenue to help the studio deliver the funds needed for Destiny the hard decision was made to form a relationship with Activision. I truly believe Bungie thought or was misled that they were going to have complete development control and rights to Destiny. With the investment of funds from Activision, and the “Lure” for additional income/players/fan base from Sony (Sony players always wanted a Halo type game, something that Sony was never able to deliver until Destiny) Destiny was born. 3. The Fall of Bungie… When Bungie showed the FAT CATS at Activision the finished product they realized the income maker they invested in would reap huge profits. They also realized they could cut up the game and x2 and even x3 their profit margin by not doing any additional development and release snippets of the game. The original Devs and Bungie leadership saw this, did their best to stop it, and failed, hence why almost all of them are gone. 4. Now…. There is still a large fan base made up of Legends, we remember what we were promised in D1, which was never delivered because of Activision and the new leadership of Bungie. We started voicing our concerns on the forum only to be bullied by a new fan base that developed from D1 and have no CLUE of the Lore of Bungie since the beginning. Their allegiance was forged by playing D1, not knowing what it was intended to be. During D1 Activision and Bungie was in damage control because of the complete cut and paste of D1. 5. Then… Activision and Bungie needed to shed the expatiations from D1. They also needed to uncouple the future of Destiny because of their cut and paste job, and how their Damage Control actually made things worse for the game and its future; they also needed a new story line. How do you do that? You ridicule the original Legend fan base, only listen, and cater to the whims of your new fan base filled with Millennials. You also shelve the original direction of D1 and start different direction as Bungie said it is doing in D2, this is done so the future 10 year plan is not anchored by the original promises. The Execs believe they can do this because the fan base that is throwing money at the screen is larger than the Legend fan base. Activision and Bungie Exes are forcing the Legends to make the decision to stay or go, they do not care for the Legends fan base, because the Millennials are now their primary source of income. What we, the Legends need to accept is; that the Destiny that we were promised will never come to fruition. We either accept the future direction of Destiny or go.
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I doubt the story in vanilla D2 will have any lore aspects of D1 (like, were did Eris go, what's the Queen's and her brother's true fate, who is the exo stranger, what's Rasputin hidden story, where's Osiris, who is Nokris, what's Toland's fate, who are the Nine, what will the other Hive kings do after they hear about Oryx, etc). I really just [b]hope[/b] that [b]some[/b] of these questions will be answered in the DLCs and Expansions the game will have. I mean, in a TTK mission (forgot the name) we know the Cabal sent a distress signal with information to the Empire, so that's how Ghaul knows about the Guardians and their weaknesses (I think), ambushing the Last City and capturing the Traveller. We are (will, actually) exploring the consequences that the mission set us, possibly concluding it by the end of the vanilla storyline of D2. I hope that after that conclusion we get to continue exploring other fragments that D1 set up. We know the first two DLCs will be about Osiris and the Warminds, so there's still a shine of light.
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My cynical view is that Bungie are sort of making it up as they go along in terms of story, continually cutting and revising it. So I'm mostly prepared for a story that doesn't make overall sense. That said, I'm expecting to see more exo stranger at some point. If not in D2, then maybe in the osiris expansion.
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Everyone here has definitely wasted $60 bucks on much more disappointment. (think strippers, sucky dinner dates, vacation souvenirs, tickets to smashmouth, gas to drive to your in laws, donuts for the office because you're the new guy, trips to the dentist) the list goes on. So I think i can stomach popping into gamestop in a few months for my copy.
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Had a listen to an interview Luke Smith did with kotaku today. Very interesting listen, starting comments are a bit of an eye opener, but do make sense, and the darkness isn't just 'being shelved', and will be returned to at a future date. Think the story was in such a mess where it got re-written so close to release corners were cut, story was sacrificed, but it areas like it's going to be kept in the long term.
