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Edited by Lost Sols:
2/23/2017 4:57:04 PM
204
Everything wrong with Destiny balancing summed up in one tweet
This was posted in response to if Bungie is going to do something about magnetism/aim assist on grenades.
[quote]@Big_Plays_Ron That's tracking, technically. We know it can be frustrating to get stuck and killed. It's on the list, but not coming asap.
-Josh Hamrick[/quote]
So there are a couple of things here, not the least of which is that sticky grenades are going to be nerfed at some point because dying is frustrating.
If that's really a reason to ruin weapons and abilities people like to use, what's the point?
And I'm not trying to be a dick to Bungie or Hamrick about it and I hope that people curtail the calls for jobs, but honestly I think this statement shows how little Bungie understand about why players love playing their characters so much.
The fact is [i]it's frustrating dying to anything[/i], so where does the rabbit hole end?
Nerf stickies now, but then how fair is axion tracking? Isn't it frustrating being chased across the map by seekers?
Then Lightning Grenades will have to go because it's frustrating that I can't recognize that I just got hit by a pulse and step 2 feet to either side.
And don't get me started on Suppression Grenades, it's really frustrating not being able to jump, super or use my own grenades for like 5 hours after getting hit by one. That has gotta go.
Sticky grenades have been in the game since launch. They've [b]never[/b] been a problem. So why now?
Which leads to the other big issue with balance philosophy.
[b]Who exactly are Bungie balancing Destiny for?[/b]
I know there's been a lot of debate over this, but who did lessening sbmm benefit?
The majority of casual players?
Why did Sunsingers (and DoTs in general), MIDA, Thorn, rez shields, special ammo, shotguns and snipers all get nerfed?
Trials.
And why are sticky grenades suddenly an issue?
Funny how Triplewreck started calling for their nerf last week and suddenly something everyone can use that performs the same for everyone and has been a non-issue since launch, and is FUN, is now being looked at and on a list to be nerfed.
Datto didn't like our Sunsingers, they frustrated him.
Dr Lupo and TW didn't like sbmm, playing equal competition frustrated them.
It's one thing to say streamers and "content creators" don't have influence in dictating play, but I'm having trouble not seeing the correlation.
Then there's the decision to remove special ammo on death to "promote primary usage", but they let Sidearms keep their ammo and start with it after every death, which in turn has just made everyone run sidearms 24/7
You can't make statements that you want NLB to perform like other snipers because you want consistency across the class and then make changes to Specials but exclude one... Where's the consistency there?
I've said time and again I understand that they're trying to just get D1 to the finish line and shaking up metas is easier than creating new content, but honestly this is the first time I've really been worried about what D2 will be if anything fun is going to be targeted for a nerf because it's "frustrating" dying to it and the players making livings pub stomping are allowed to dictate how we play.
Edit: art imitating life https://youtu.be/E2v675klbZ0
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22 RepliesAt no point have I ever said that playing equal competition frustrated me. As I have said, time and time again: Skill based matchmaking creates/created a situation where I could not comfortably play with my lower-skill friends because it would create an un-fun environment for both myself and them to play in. They constantly get stomped, and I constantly have to try my ass off. Thanks.
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106 RepliesEdited by imtylerdurden: 2/23/2017 6:22:35 AMHey everybody, just wanted to clear this up... Ultimately, I can totally understand this player's frustration with effectively winning a fight only to be stuck by the victims sticky grenade as they’re dying. Likely, so can you. We’ve all been there. We've all got things like this that get under our skin. That being said, talking over these issues and thinking of ways to improve them does not guarantee or should not even imply that a nerf is coming. “On the list” just means that it's a topic that we’ve talked about possibly improving in some way in the future, IF we had a good way to do it AND felt like it was the right thing to do for the game. Honestly, most things on "the list" will never meet all of those criteria. For us, it's worth thinking about and talking about these sorts of issue even if they only help us design better things in the future. Hope that helps in some way. Have a great night! -Hamrick
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43 RepliesThe question is: Why are the streamers so adamant about making changes catered to trials? The answer is: they are making a living off of it. Streamers need their asset protected. They need to focus the games to their strength (gun play) and eliminate random events (grenades, snipers, shotgun chargers, supers). Trials is not a fun game mode for people to enjoy. Trials is a money maker for streamers and as a result a marketing vehicle for Bungie and their property. What is the best way to address this? The enemy of all streamers: SBMM. If the top tier players need to battle top tier players for their flawless payday, this will kill off 99% of the streamer business model. It will also have the added benefit of getting casuals into trials and open up the game to more people. let's be honest the refusal to allow sbmm is so that there is a steady diet of ok to bad players to feast on throughout the first 7 rounds. Insisting on nerfs eliminates the randomness that is the bane of any business. Add in sbmm to trials. Open it up to casuals to bring in more players, and kill off these streamers that, while they do wonders to promote the game, are slowly killing off what was once fun about it. Note: this is not me looking for an easy lighthouse trip. At one point I practiced hard and got good enough to make it on my own. I recently came back (really just these last two weeks) and I am practicing again. I'll get there. This is about ending the impact trials is having on the wider game.
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20 RepliesEdited by RedWingGirl: 2/21/2017 10:31:51 PMPVE now and in the future is going to be a complete rage fest with all these PVP changes. And as I said to Mayhem, these kinds of controversies created not only facilitates division within the community, but also appears to be amateur hour over at Bungie to secure a place of employment. Major changes like these 3 years in, doesn't bring in a ringing endorsement for future releases.
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Did they delete the mega thread on the last patch where everyone was posting how much they hated it?
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46 RepliesYou why am I not surprised you of all people are defending stickies and their ability to track you... hahaha Jesus man. What are you NOT willing to defend that is clearly broken? No one has a problem with the sticky part... but the aim assist PLUS magnetism that just should 100% NOT be on sticky grenades... I mean I think we can all agree that that is fair.
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2 RepliesWhy are sticky grenades suddenly an issue? They are one hit kill and have massive amounts of tracking. Sure, they have been in the game this entire time but that doesn't mean that they aren't totally overpowered. How is it that throwing knife headshots aren't one hit kills and sticky grenades are? It doesn't make any sense. I could understand stickies remaining one hit kills if all the tracking was eliminated but that would also mean throwing knife headshots would need to be kills as well just to level the playing field. I also hope people realize sidearm damage or rate of fire needs to be reduced. Sure, I can see hoarding ammo being an issue but the real problem is the time to kill on sidearms is faster than ANYTHING else. It is a blessing and a curse for streamers to voice their opinion on their channel day after day because Bungie sees and hears them. They get to be heard and Bungie listens and casual players have to just deal with it. Just get a few dedicated streamers together that understand the game very well and invite them over to Bungie. They won't fix all the problems but I'd be they would considerably help Bungie make a much more fair game that everyone can enjoy.
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6 RepliesDude, are you new here? When has Bungie ever cared what the average player thinks? They cater to their friends, there's a reason why no tweet goes un-replied from a streamer, or a YouTuber. They even have conversations with each other, they use Twitter as their messaging app. We don't have 100,000 followers, we don't matter. I got used to it, so I started playing other games. Destiny is dead anyways, it's kind of a bad game if you think about it.
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When people figure out Bingie wants to test stuff that will piss us off and not play the game will help put a stop to their power. They are a sadistic group. Move on to something else.
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Good points!
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The nerf brigade have turned this game into an unrecognizable mess. I miss tripmines that worked. I miss handguns that dropped. I miss scouts that hit hard. I miss my yr1 Suros Regime an yr1 gally. I miss my fusion rifles, especially the exotic Infinity one that auto fired. I miss the ICE BREAKER!!! I use 1 scout now. The same snipe an fusion as well. I also stopped using my swords after they changed the ammo transfer. Now all i equip is the sleeper simulant. And play as my arc warlock.
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7 RepliesBungie for some reason loves Triple wreck, personally I think he is a great unwashed tramp leeching from Destiny players but and I'll happily take the ban for this, Bungie need to get of his -blam!-ing dick and realise he's just a selfish -blam!-. Whilst you're at it Bungie, stick D2 right up your -blam!-ing arse.
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3 RepliesEdited by TheShadow: 2/23/2017 3:52:04 AMEverything was done deliberately on this last patch. When gamers stop this nonsense that Bungie is doing their best, the better off most of you will be. Hi Bungie here! We got something special for you that we are going to shove it all the way down your throat and see how many of you will be willing to swallow it. It's a heaping pile of____. Come watch our livestream and we will show you on a chart on how we will do it. After one of the most amazing live streams that Bungie has ever created. The crowd goes wild!.. [b]HEAR US ROAR![/b] A couple days later after the train wreck... Hi Bungie again. We see you are not happy with health regen and some of the other things we nerfed because we were annoyed with it. So we had second thoughts about it and decided to take a look into it. So knowing it could take up to 6 months we will not give you a set date. But don't worry about all the other nerfs, at least we are looking into health regen. Same day... Oh Bungie, Thank you so much! You are my hero! Bungie sitting back just reading the replies from the community. Holy smoley guys! They will swallow anything and do it with pride. This is some funny stuff!! Just wait until we adjust it just a "tiny bit" before we give it back to them Hahahahaha. As Far as PvE goes and PvE gamers having a voice. [spoiler]What's PvE?[/spoiler] [spoiler]Bungie's entire fanbase just got played big time, and most of Bungie's fanbase just told Bungie it's ok you can just walked all over me. Thanks you guys that swallowed this heaping pile of____ and letting Bungie test you again on how far they can get away with toying with you. ... and thank you for setting the future for "D2" I personally will not be purchasing a game that the company toys with their fanbase and the entire game is being dictated by streamers. [/spoiler]
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[quote][i]Imagine me and you, I do I think about you day and night, A waste of time To think about the gun you love and hold her tight So happy together If I should pull you out, invest the time And you no longer work for me, ill lose my mind Imagine how the world could be, so very fine if you worked forever[/i][/quote] Lol had to put this somewhere
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This is how far the nerf train has gotten.......things that have been non issues or just plain shite are now op!! Where the fuk is it going to end. They had a great game,huge player base and they are systematically FUKING it up. It's actually beyond my comprehension.
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Well I for one just have to say: I've been calling for nerfs to sidearms, fusions, double jump, suppressor grenades, titan bubble size, and self res fieriness--for months. AND I HAVE 44 YOUTUBE SUBSCRIBERS. THAT'S RIGHT FORTY -blam!-ING FOUR! I demand that my voice be heard. I demand that all the above be nerfed into the ground and that I be given free trips to the lighthouse (and any real world lighthouses of my choice) every weekend from this one forward! All kidding aside, I have to agree with you. It's quite suspicious that some of the biggest "content creators" start calling for nerfs--and those things get nerfed. Look at trip mines. No one in their right mind had any problem with them sticking to people (and the subsequent unicorn effect it had on shotgun warriors). But some streamers complained that it was "too easy" and they got nerfed. It's a sad state of this game that those who have the largest audience command the loudest voice with the Developers. [spoiler]Also, I really do have a youtube channel and I do actually have 44 subs (lol). If you wanna check it out it's here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcNmuu7HkZAhH6j72qod-0w If not, that's cool too. [/spoiler]
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1 ReplySaid this back in early 2015 when the "Suros/Vex Mythoclast is OP" argument raised its head and heralded in a Golden Age of Nerfing: These are fictional weapons and equipment in a sci/fi fantasy shooter set several centuries in the future. Many of them made using fictional alien technology. They are what they are. Use whatever gives you the edge and practice with it until you're good with it. Or don't. And, to misquote the Ghost... "who brings a shotgun into space?" Removing the 'magnetic' part of a magnetic grenade just makes it... a grenade. Perhaps we should just make Crucible sword hilts only. Until somebody whines about how frustrating it is to die that way.
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Do you what i find really annoying? Dying, switch weapon to sidearm, invective or ice breaker until special spawns, swtiching back to initial secondary to pick green up. Dying again, swtich weapon to... If someone is to do this every time he/she dies, that player will surely spend half of the game switching between weapons and reloading. So pls pls pls pls PLEASE tell the devs to make it possible auto load primary into magazine when you pick them up (like heavy). It will be less annoying and pvp a little bit less boring than it is at the moment. Thanks.
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Edited by Adaptability: 2/24/2017 4:04:57 AMIf you nerf axion bolts, voidwalkers will be left without a really good reliable grenade to use and will have to rely on vortex grenades ,which are mediocre compared to solar grenades, even with vortex mastery. As well as scatter grenades which are mediocre by them selves and require the use of an exotic to be made viable, which restricts voidwalkers and affects variety even more than just everyone using axion bolts. Not only that, when all you see everyone using nothing manacles and axion bolts, people will find a way to say how "they do too much damage," or that nothing manacles need "need to be fixed." Even though nothing manacles have been perfectly balanced after a small series of nerfs and buffs, tracking less aggressively and requiring more precise aim. While sticky grenades can probably get there magnetism tweeked, they are still somewhat balanced by the fact that every class has access to 1 or 2 different sticky grenades and the fact that if you nerd stickies to much you could end up hurting the sunsinger class even more. Lightning grenades are without a doubt dangerously effective however do to the fact they can be destroyed and that they require good placement I could imagine the one change they REALLY need is a more defined area of affect much like spike grenades. My problem isn't that they kill me too quickly, it's that when I try to get away I'm not to sure where the area of effect ends at times and this can make high stress situations even more tough, getting me killed in the process. Also, suppression grenades need to stay the same for the defender class to be more effective in pvp. 10 seconds isn't that bad when you realize you can still see, shoot, and you will most likely have teammates to cover you. The best they could do is reduce the time by 2 seconds. In addition the sunsinger radiance, firebolt and viking funeral need to be buffed. The nerfing of the subclass was completely necessary, however, since the change to viking funeral and firebolts the super is now regarded as somewhat lack luster. The change to viking funeral, in my honest, opinion was the best call for pvp and pve respectively. Except that fact that there lies a problem with its over all worth in pve. Seeing as how a measly 15% damage buff after 3 stacks is hardly that benefitial in pve activities such as the raid. While it does improve boss damage in raids and strikes the benefits are so small you would wouldn't lose anything by not having a sunsinger present entirely. Unlike shadow shot, ward of dawn or melting point which are considered premier support options in pve. For this reason I propose that the damage buff gets increased to 20-25%. As for the firebolts I suggest that they be returned to their original state before their nerf, seeing as how it was widely agreed upon, even by the developers, that viking funeral was the defining issue involving firebolts. Lastly I propose that during Radiance all grenades get a small damage increase so that it can compete with other roaming supers for lethality. If this change was made the viking funeral can be buffed to only 20%, if not then the viking funeral can be buffed to 25%. I believe this to be the best way to improve sunsinger's effectiveness in pvp and pve while keeping it in check by not removing any of the nerfs/changes to it flame shield, fireborn, or viking funeral. Making it more powerful in its super in pvp whilr keeping it relatively the same as it's been recently in pvp regarding its neutral game. As well as increasing its over all support capabilities in pve with viking funeral and song of flame.
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Dude they need to make any sticky grenades like plasmas from halo.. u either stick or u dont. Turn the bs bumpers off bungie...
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22 RepliesThat's the point I've been trying to make, Sols. They are at war with the game's design: [b]THERE IS NO END TO THIS RABBIT HOLE.[/b] Short of a [i]complete[/i] re-engineering of the Crucible into a game that look like Halo. Sticky grenades are a problem only because of the heavy handed way they dealt special weapons. Special weapons are a problem because they won't allow primaries to kill fast enough to balance them with specials. Where were headed has a name: Halo.
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7 RepliesEdited by raveun2me: 2/22/2017 3:04:19 PMI'll make it an even 100 likes for you. Well said. Why is so much attention put on PvP when there is CLEARLY more players in PvE? Just check [url]destinytracker.com[/url]
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Completely agree. When I saw the Tweet from Josh Hamrick about Truth being created to not miss and that was a problem I shook my head. So, in most PVP matches heavy spawns ONCE. You are telling me an exotic was run into the ground because it killed 3 or so guardians (without having to reload) in the 10-30 seconds per match that is is being used? This makes NO sense to me. NONE.
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Spot on buddy.
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1 ReplyI can't find where Bungie responded. What did they say?
