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Edited by breyn07ps:
9/3/2016 1:48:10 AM
73
SBMM Rant
So I know there's obviously already a ton of posts about sbmm. But I just wanted to go over my experience playing destiny pvp since day 1 till now and why I and many people think sbmm should be removed or at the very least we get given ranked playlists.
With the upcoming update, Hopefully Bungie can see this and constructively put something together to fix these problems down below.
Year 1 pvp was a blast, matchmaking in orbit was quick, the connections were ok (still way better than currently), the game was a lot more fast paced but that's another discussion. You also had a mix of decent, avg and poor players which was good because you had variety. I didn't care if 1or2 people dominated because I knew someone on our team was going to be just as good or better, in most cases. The best thing about yr1 was I knew whenever I decided to play pvp it would match me up quickly with good connections and I could try out different weapons if I wanted to. I didn't care about KD or stats I just wanted a pleasant experience.
Now since TTK dropped introducing sbmm my experience is extremely frustrating and overall a terrible experience. After the latest update where Bungie claim it is now more connection based but still partially skill based, this only feels like they very slightly decreased the skill gap between players, meaning matchmaking times should be quicker. In my experiecne rarely is the matchmaking quicker and I'm still getting put up against redbar sweaties.
Here are a few reasons why I think sbmm is a bad idea in regular crucible.
- Matched up with sweaty people from different countries or in my area so I have to try like all f**k just to get a kill, not to mention winning and I'm forced to use decent pvp weapons such as tlw or hacksaw for eg.
- If the people I get on the same skill level are from different countries the connections will be absolutely atrocious (we've all seen the lag gods on YT)
- If the game can't find me sweaty people than I'll be stuck in orbit for >5mins just waiting only to eventually get mongoosed or put into a match half way through or just finishing
- Getting matched in a 6v6 or 3v3 playlist will most of time put noobs on my team so I'm expected to rack up 50 kills, 10caps with a 5kd just to scrap in a win (ok I over exaggerated here but you know what I mean)
- I can't play with my friends who are new to the game or not as skilled in pvp. As they will have a terrible experience by getting destroyed 24/7 from sweaty players.
- I'll run into a 6man fireteam while I'm playing solo :(
- People like myself that work (that are in the top end of skilled matchmaking) >38hrs per week that are tired at the end of the day and want to enjoy a regular game of crucible is impossible.
Overall I don't enjoy pvp anymore anywhere near what I use to for these reasons above.
I'm not against sweating or competitive game play at all, I like sweating from time to time against other decent players in classic 3v3. But I can't stand to go all out and try my hardiest 24/7 in every playlist.
So Please Bungie give us ranked playlists in ROI or remove sbmm all together!
EDIT 1:
Thank you for everyone's input whether for or against.
I've read a few comments with some saying that's this is just another top1% player who only cares about himself and just wants to destroy scrubs and screw everyone else.
What I was trying to say above is I don't mind playing other decent players or doing sweats. Whether it's organized sweats or playing decent players in crucible playlists. But what I don't enjoy and I'm sure there's a lot of other ppl out there that would agree is that who can stand sweating every single match. Just try and imagine that if you were/are a good player. It's not enjoying and this is even before we begin the discussion on lag
The reason I get mongoosed and long waiting times for matchmaking is because I live in Australia and I guess we don't have as big of a player pool as the US.
Edit 2:
Here's a couple of examples of what I'm talking about in regards to lag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJkQPhel3y4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSbW6YzqkLs
Edit 3:
Last night I thought I'd try out 2or3games of Control because I haven't done pvp in a week or so. I don't know if the servers were f**ked during this period but me and my teammate experienced an insane amount of lag (people walking into walls, not taking any damage, people constantly dropping out and rejoining, spawning into a 2v4 in control, a whole lobby with redbars, players teleporting etc).
This is extremely frustrating to say the very least, as we all love this game but it just does not work. The matchmaking we have right now is garbage. Something has to be done Bungie.
DPJ experienced the same thing and from what I'm guessing around the same time also. So maybe it was possiblely something on Bungies end - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFsnCJlQt3g
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Agreed
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11 RepliesWhat's really starting to bug me about this sbmm is that some of my own friends are staring to refuse to play crucible with me because they don't want to get matched with people of my level. I completely understand why but it's so sad considering this game is more fun when playing with friends. I mainly solo queue in rift now and I don't do too bad. Then if I do ever join up with friends, we get stomped because it's against a team of 6 sweaters lol
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1 ReplyHave you tried a netduma router? I use one, and it does help to match me with players in my area which results in fewer red bars. I will say that the duma is not a very good router for general networking, though. The best solution would be to implement ping based or region based CBMM, but Bungie seems far too stubborn to ditch their failed social experiment that is SBMM.
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I've played since beta, but due to the lag and SBMM is a part of the reason it's so laggy I've had to stop playing, it's just not fun anymore. If destiny 2 doesn't have DEDICATED SERVERS I will not be getting it or any other so called AAA game.
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139 RepliesEdited by kellygreen45: 8/31/2016 3:52:19 PMhttp://destinytracker.com/destiny/overview/ps/Summer_05 Elite player...complaining about SBMM......coming through. Like Lars was saying in that interview, YOUR idea of "fun" and "relaxing" comes at the expense of other people. Usually new or lower-skilled players. The problem with Top 1% players like yourself is that you often have forgotten what it is like to be that low-skill player...or you are so talented (The Natural) that you never really WERE that low skill player. Going up against someone like you IS NOT FUN. If you think its not fun to play against someone of your skill level when you are AT that skill level....I can ASSURE you that its a nightmare going upon against someone like you when you aren't. Let me tell you. Players like you move so fast that you have to be a pretty solid player (K/D 1.17, Top 18%) to even FOLLOW the action. You aim so quickly and so precisely that even SMALL mistakes, or missing a single shot in a gunfight means you die. As a lower-skilled player, you can do everything right in setting up an encounter...and still lose. Because that elite player fights his way out of it based on just raw twitch speed.....or anticipates the move and beats you to the point of cotact. Bottomline.....without SBMM....EVERY match is "sweaty" for new or low skill players. And "ranked" play litsts create an ass-backwards situation for them. Because YOU get to beat up on lesser players in the social playlist for "fun"...and only get a "sweaty" match (If) when you match into the ranked list. Whereas the low skll player gets pub-stomped and used for target practice in the social playlist...and can only get a match with someone NEAR his own level and have any hope of success..... ...in RANKED play. The solution to the lag problem isn't pure CBMM. That is simply a recipie for chasing new playes out of the game. Fortunately some lower skilled people who came back to the CRucible only after SBMM made it a tolerable experience for them are strating to speak up. What Bungie needs to do is LOOSEN the algorithms. Prioritize SBMM for the average player (as a Top 20% player I experience NONE of what you're talking about, unless I'm playing at a really strange time of the day). But for outliers like yourself....monitor connection times. If those connection times get long enough to impact the play experience? Broaden the pool of acceptable matches, and start to prioritize connection quality. As for not liking going up against players of your own elite level? No sympathy there dude. None.
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3 RepliesThe only problem is can I play with a friend who had less than a 1KD, nope because they'll provable come out with a score like 3-10 every game. And I have a few friends like that but it's frustrating for them. And when I play with friends a lot better than myself then it's the other way around. So what am I supposed to do? It's not fair no matter what because everyone plays in fireteams of varied skill and it often ends up with 1 guy getting ruined especially in 3's This is what makes the most sense to me, let the game search solely based on connection and then if it control for example have a skill rating number and split the 12 players in to the most equal teams possible. That leaves a fairly equal opportunity to win or lose. If some one on the team went 5-10 but you still got the win because the teams were split equally and they're still upset they need to grow up.
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1 shitty lagfest, it's pathetic that people aren't even getting fired for creating such horse crap is beyond believe.
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1 ReplyHere's how I'd implement it. You won't like it though, because while it gives you what you purport to want (Better connections) it may not give you what you actually want. https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/212173487?page=0&sort=0&showBanned=0&path=1
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This nonsense encouraged me to stop playing months ago.. I don't even bother with Iron Banner anymore. Battlefield 1 is coming out. I expect to get my multiplayer in there unless by some miracle Destiny goes back to year 1 matchmaking, which was actually fun.
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I generally tank around 5-8 matches on purpose by using shitty guns. So I both A keep those gun play styles up to date and B: the matchmaker throws back into the previous pool of players so I can relax while I play. Which normally lasts around 20 games before I have to tank it again
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I really just play, focus on what you want to achieve, forget about the system and just play your game your style, don't follow, make them follow you, be smart, think before you do
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I want the year one match making system. The current one is equal to that of a sweaty, smelly, no good, poo stained, butt licking, fart faced, rotten little stinker of a squeaker who always wines.
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16 RepliesStupid theory (really stupid don't bother reading): New player: wow I just bought this game, I can't wait to try everything! But first, I'll try the crucible because I want to see how good I am, I'm a blast in call of duty so I'll definitely do awesome! Universe 1 (SBMM): wow look at all these noobs! I'm wrecking the sheep out of them woohoo this game rocks! Universe 2 (CBMM): o may gad I'm getting destroyed by these 335 cowboy hunters with the high noon thing and these 335 palpatines this game sucks! I'm not good at this game so I don't like it! Waaaah destiny sucks! *Moneyvision senses intensifies" (read with robot voice) We are loosing players No players no money Eliminate community wishes Increase brainwashing *bzzztzzwiu wiu wiu* The end
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7 RepliesI feel like I've read this before... [spoiler]dejavu O_O[/spoiler]
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"SBMM Rant" From your posted videos, it would seem you are running up against what a lot of us are seeing. Indeed, I have the same kind of videos and there are thousands more on YouTube. Since we really don't know what's in Bungie's 'secret sauce' of gaming network architecture, it's a little hard to say what really going on here. Is it bad connections, cheating and or both.... What ever it is, it has gotten much worse. So bad I don't think skills have anything to with the out come of the match anymore.
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Not to worry fella, in 19 days you can play with whoever you want in your private match! That's exactly how I plan to get away from this because you are right about one thing, it really isn't that fun anymore.
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Wonder if stat tracking should have a fixed reset. Monthly or something. It might put less pressure to conform to the metas. People could play fun loadouts with less concern for their permanent record and SBMM would cater to a players' intent, during that timeline. I'm negative k/d. Solo PvP I play positive. With my much better buddies, average about my current k/d. All good. Just a thought anyway.
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Make pubs cbmm (including IB). Create new ranked 6v6 & 3v3 playlists & give those the sbmm (while fixing a few things about trials). -blam!-ing done. Bo3 does this well, CoD in general regularly has good matchmaking (excluding the atrocity that was AW). Often games will have 2-4 high skill players, 4-6 mid skilled players, & 6-8 low skilled players. Sbmm was implemented in Bo3, the community went ape shit, & Treyarch removed it within 24 hours. Sbmm might help some but that doesn't justify how it hurts players who generally put more time & effort into the game than anyone else.
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8 RepliesSBMM is fine... trust me. The only ones complaining are the high K/D players who feel competing against players of their own skill is somehow too "sweaty" for them. Really?
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5 RepliesDoes SBMM really exist? I'm a returning player and have always enjoyed trials. Last week we went 6-0 and had some fun. We then lost 4 on the bounce (I know it matches you with people who have the same amount of wins on their ticket right?) BUT we were matched with teams who have been flawless literally 100s of times between them. We vary from about 8-10 times and KDs in trials around 1.0. Their KDs and ELO scores were much higher. We were obliterated, it was like we couldn't even compete. Not fun at all
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1 ReplyHey! [spoiler]carry me tru trials plz[/spoiler]
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I'm a average crucible player and I don't get why people care so much about winning over having fun. For me I play crucible to have fun either by constantly using different guns and setups each game or doing challenges with my mates( like fusion nades rumble only) and if I do well I do well and if I don't I don't winning really doesn't take over for me(unless its competitive like iron banner and trials were I get winning over everything). Also usually if you do end up coming first this game will give the good loot to everyone but you.
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[quote]So I know there's obviously already a ton of posts about sbmm. But I just wanted to go over my experience playing destiny pvp since day 1 till now and why I and many people think sbmm should be removed or at the very least we get given ranked playlists. With the upcoming update, Hopefully Bungie can see this and constructively put something together to fix these problems down below. Year 1 pvp was a blast, matchmaking in orbit was quick, the connections were ok (still way better than currently), the game was a lot more fast paced but that's another discussion. You also had a mix of decent, avg and poor players which was good because you had variety. I didn't care if 1or2 people dominated because I knew someone on our team was going to be just as good or better, in most cases. The best thing about yr1 was I knew whenever I decided to play pvp it would match me up quickly with good connections and I could try out different weapons if I wanted to. I didn't care about KD or stats I just wanted a pleasant experience. Now since TTK dropped introducing sbmm my experience is extremely frustrating and overall a terrible experience. After the latest update where Bungie claim it is now more connection based but still partially skill based, this only feels like they very slightly decreased the skill gap between players, meaning matchmaking times should be quicker. In my experiecne rarely is the matchmaking quicker and I'm still getting put up against redbar sweaties. Here are a few reasons why I think sbmm is a bad idea in regular crucible. - Matched up with sweaty people from different countries or in my area so I have to try like all f**k just to get a kill, not to mention winning and I'm forced to use decent pvp weapons such as tlw or hacksaw for eg. - If the people I get on the same skill level are from different countries the connections will be absolutely atrocious (we've all seen the lag gods on YT) - If the game can't find me sweaty people than I'll be stuck in orbit for >5mins just waiting only to eventually get mongoosed or put into a match half way through or just finishing - Getting matched in a 6v6 or 3v3 playlist will most of time put noobs on my team so I'm expected to rack up 50 kills, 10caps with a 5kd just to scrap in a win (ok I over exaggerated here but you know what I mean) - I can't play with my friends who are new to the game or not as skilled in pvp. As they will have a terrible experience by getting destroyed 24/7 from sweaty players. - I'll run into a 6man fireteam while I'm playing solo :( - People like myself that work (that are in the top end of skilled matchmaking) >38hrs per week that are tired at the end of the day and want to enjoy a regular game of crucible is impossible. Overall I don't enjoy pvp anymore anywhere near what I use to for these reasons above. I'm not against sweating or competitive game play at all, I like sweating from time to time against other decent players in classic 3v3. But I can't stand to go all out and try my hardiest 24/7 in every playlist. So Please Bungie give us ranked playlists in ROI or remove sbmm all together! EDIT 1: Thank you for everyone's input whether for or against. I'm currently at work so I'll try and reply and add more detail later today I've read a few comments with some saying that's this is just another top1% player who only cares about himself and just wants to destroy scrubs and screw everyone else. What I was trying to say above is I don't mind playing other decent players or doing sweats. Whether it's organized sweats or playing decent players in crucible playlists. But what I don't enjoy and I'm sure there's a lot of other ppl out there that would agree is that who can stand sweating every single match. Just try and imagine that if you were/are a good player. It's not enjoying The reason I get mongoosed and long waiting times for matchmaking is because I live in Australia and I guess we don't have as big of a player pool as the US. Edit 2: Here's a couple of extreme examples of what I'm talking about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJkQPhel3y4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSbW6YzqkLs[/quote] Rappo000 has been summoned...
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6 RepliesEdited by ManeVeezy31: 9/1/2016 8:39:06 AMI can mostly agree with you I would say I'm alittle above average but hate getting into every match and I have to play all out every match it's annoying and when I'm playing trials I'll get matched up with some of the most top tier players with platinum or diamond ranking with 1800 or higher Elo I'm only gold tier with 1300 Elo explained to me how this is sbmm because this info alone is telling me I'm playing against people way pass my skill level I don't understand this at all
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16 RepliesEdited by Ness: 8/31/2016 9:30:42 PMI can totally relate, man. My stats might not show it, but I'm starting to play with top tier players at least every week, now. I'm not asking to necessarily make the game easier for me, but when I play against top players frequently, it gets a little tiring. Yeah, it might not be fun for an average player to play against a top tier player, but SBMM essentially punishes good players and rewards bad or average ones. I don't see why good players should be punished for actually taking more time to get better at the game. I still think CBMM is much better. I might play against amazing players every once in a while, but at least I don't have to sweat just to have a chance of winning.
