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5/23/2016 7:49:56 PM
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The Truth about SBMM in Destiny: How it affects the community

After researching stats / testing out PVP on a new account, simply turning SBMM off isn't the answer. Far more people will be hurt by the change than we think. I'm not saying every gaming being ultra competitive is right either.... but we need to look a the greater good instead of what is best for the top players.

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  • Sounds like a lot of butt hurt people. The hard truth hurts sometimes. All it needs is a ranking system to work properly. But I agree it needs to stay. No more easy button for the top level players.

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    • Doesn't anyone remember just how much lag there was in Y1? Trying to say lag is somehow a new thing due to SBMM is a flawed argument. Lag was rampant in Y1. Probably worse than it is now. You too tier players wanting an "easy mode" need to realize that you ARE the minority. If you push casuals out of PVP then you are only going to be left with hardcores and try hards.

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      • Nice vid, thanks for seeing the other side.

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      • But what is it based on? I can tell you for a fact it's not kd. My old account struggles at .8 always getting stompers so a made a new account. It's ranking up and has about 24 hours on it. I'm staying around 1.0 now and having tons of fun. Why would my old account get matched harder than a newer one? I'm thinking its a mix of Gilmore score and kd and gear or something on that line

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      • I get matched up against red bars occasionally I hate sbmm simply because I feel like my stats are get skewed. I put wayyy more time in the crucible now then I ever did in year 1 and my stats have been on a constant rise I had a fraction of the time spent my stats are 1.37 average when sbmm is implemented what's my true average lower higher I want to know

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        • Edited by Thatmg7: 5/24/2016 8:05:14 PM
          I think the vid missed the fact. Higher KD players are placed with a lower pool of players = larger search radius = More lag/poor connections Under SBMM. What can directly effect games, due to lag shields. More importantly in modes like trails or IB who do not have the entire player base playing in.

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          • I'm not asking for connection based matchmaking so I can wreck newbs. I'm asking for it so I can have matched with the best possible connections. I want 100% cbmm.

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            • Edited by Teb40: 5/24/2016 6:22:38 PM
              I watched the video but I don't buy the logic. I never played an online PVP game before Destiny and struggled in Y1. I got better by playing more and watching better players. SBMM is the gaming equivalent of "no scrub left behind". It is a race to a 1.0 KD and a 50/50 win/lose ratio when your skills plateau. Without some sort of visible skill ranking system (ELO or whatever), PVP becomes meaningless. If I have a 1.5 KD, it's meaningless without knowing the rank/quality of opponents. Bungie could really do the community a favor by exposing their skill ranking algorithm and turning it into a visible stat. We need bragging rights and a way to see where we rank. The other issue that is critically important is consistency. Lag is the biggest factor here. Every match should feel the same. Guns, melee, supers should all feel right. Too many matches are broken by red bar players and they feel "off" because timing, radar, and hit detection are so dramatically affected by connection quality. I applaud the crackdown on red bar gods, but a better solution would be to restrict people to their own geographical area if they have poor connections. I have seen posts where people self-restrict themselves from crucible because of bad connections. Some people are buying routers that eliminate connections to players outside a specific distance. Why can't we choose whether or not we want to play against people on the other side of the world? This is a much more complex issue than just wanting to prevent pub stomping and allowing newbs a chance to win some matches. It is an oversimplification and insulting to players since it prevents everyone from knowing where they rank and whether they are improving. It is even worse when the inconsistent experience leaves you guessing whether it is you, your load out, or the lag that determined the outcome of the match. SBMM exacerbates the issues with connections and consistency. This is why the community as a whole is grumbling. Edit: According to Destiny Tracker I am ranked top 5% for time playing crucible. The percentage of matches that feel right seems frustratingly low right now. As an example, this morning I played a couple matches of mayhem rumble. I was killed multiple times by primaries before a player came around a corner. Multiple players never showed up on radar until I was dead, not even a blip from crouching. Players were showing as right around the corner but grenades couldn't hit them. When I came around the corner the radar was showing them right next to me but they were way down a long hallway shooting me with their doctrine well out of reach of my shotgun. This is why consistency is important. The experience is dependent on the connection lottery. I'd rather be grumbling about my stupid mistakes than getting angry at the red bar god who took three fusion blasts and ran through my grenade untouched to melee me to death just before the fusion kill finally registered. When connections are good, PVP is awesome and it feels fair. I just want more matches like this. I want to be able to play a ton of matches without reporting anyone for a bad connection.

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              • destiny should choose whether they want to be casual oriented or competitive. during the week make it casual and have a overwatch style match making. during weekends crank the sbmm and let the best go for the light house. that is the bootleg ranked and unranked version. ranked is trials in weekends with sbmm on and unranked would be cbmm during the week with KD turned off so no ego trips.

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              • Simple solution; give players the option to choose between ranked and unranked playlists.

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                • I can't help but wonder how much of what people see as lag, thinking its due to a purely skill based matching, is actually the damage referee. Whether it's working as intended or not. I know since its come about some really strange lag would occasionally pop up despite connections showing green. Didn't really happen before. Of someone was lagging they were usually yellow or red bar. Not green all the way.

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                • Edited by Mystic Knight: 5/24/2016 8:09:55 PM
                  Go watch some of the streams on twitch. Streamers pair up and mercy every card until they are streamed sniped and lose and listen at them talk crap. Saw that first hand on nds talons stream yesterday while playing rift some guy in his fireteam named Vulcan (something like that) was throwing a fit (not exaggerating). That's the kind of babies that don't want sbmm...nothing to do with lag they just like pub stomping. Don't believe me go watch his video from yesterday talon removed him from the chat and then invited him back. He was whining that much

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                • How many times are you gonna recycle those clips I've seen the same 3 clips in 3 different videos

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                • You're getting the predictable hate from the pubstars and assorted Bungie bashers but I'm glad to see a top tier player approaching the issue this way. Particularly your part about mid-tier players getting better with SBMM because they can actually figure out what the hell is going on and work on their game incrementally. Too often I see the sweaty crowd claiming that SBMM is paradoxically bad for newer players too since getting roflstomped is [i]obviously[/i] the "best" way to get better... completely ignoring that the old crucible could be [u]very[/u] punishing and people like me stayed the hell away for much of Y1 because it just wasn't fun. But you are opening yourself up to some very fair criticism by completely ignoring the lag component so that's something you really should at least briefly address in any future vids - I can already hear the screams of "[i]zOMG lag killz f*ck you and your SBMM Bungo[/i]".... Lag is obviously something we all want less of but if SBMM went away tomorrow there would still be lag and people tend to forget that if lag makes you die after getting behind cover [u]you still would have -blam!-ing died[/u] without lag, it just would have happened quicker. I've played a number of games with dedicated servers and CBMM and I can assure you that those things don't guarantee a lag-free experience.

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                • Edited by Rebellis: 5/24/2016 7:38:00 PM
                  Problem is there isn't really anything to do in Destiny's PvP except shoot or be shot at, so hit detection and who is lagging and who isn't means everything. It's a consequence of having a handful of players on a tiny map. A la CoD. Maps need to be bigger, player count needs to be higher, new game modes added, but most importantly there needs to be more roles to play. Players that aren't good at shooting might do great as a support class (like healing, hacking, infiltrating, etc.), if the game had them.

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                • I agree with a ranked and unranked argument.

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                • Everybody in the community bitches no matter what and its funny XD

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                  • Notice me, Senpai!

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                  • Respectfully, you're wrong. Having SBMM on a p2p connection is the most moronic setting a game can have. Especially when the technology exists to prioritize connection. The only solution is to have a ranked playlist with better/unique rewards that will entice good players to stay in that playlist.

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                  • Edited by schoat333: 5/24/2016 3:40:47 PM
                    I spent more time playing regular pvp modes last night than I ever have before. Usually, I only play PVP when IB comes around, and it's pretty consistent. Probably because I am on a full team of 6. Last night was all over the place for me. I literally would got from having a 2.33 k/d, to struggling to get 3 kills the very next game. It was literally up and down all night. Some matches it would seem like my weapons wouldn't do any damage to the other players, then all of the sudden, half way through the match, my guns would just start melting the other team. I don't know if this is because of the matchmaking, servers, or some other balancing that Bungie is doing, but it is really inconsistent, and in turn it is not fun.

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                    • Everyday this game gets worse. Sometimes crucible is fun and fair. Most of the time we wonder why cant i damage opponents and spend the whole game complaining. After a short time of playing crucible our moods change to angered frustration. So much time and money put into a game that repays us with misery because bungie refuses to fix the problem they created. Soon we will join the others who have left the game for good, ceremoniously snapping the disc in half and burning it. Bungie, you have one month to fix your game or we turn our backs on you forever.

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                    • Fair points

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                    • Connection based, skill based... Hell, I'd take browser history or favorite color based match making if it meant there was no lag.

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                    • Reply for later please. Only need a couple hundred.

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                    • The Truth [spoiler][quote]...is where you seek it...[/quote][/spoiler]

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                    • Skill simply has to be a part of the matchmaking algorithm. People won't stay if they never do well. Besides, how can the ninjas improve if they play weaker players? However, since 2.0, I've noticed a lot more lag, which ruins some fraction of the games. As a mediocre player, my best experience in properly matched games occurred during the first half of 2015. My k/d slowly rose to nearly 1.2, and was still climbing when Destiny 2.0 released. Now, it's 1.1, due mostly to lag and losing the guns I liked. You can see the connection problem when looking at my daily/weekly/monthly game history. When the network is good to me, I see 1.0-2.0 k/d games. When the network is bad, I get 0.5 k/d games. Bungie should just go back to whatever the matchmaking was in early 2015....

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