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#feedback

Edited by Raider TCK: 12/10/2015 8:37:28 AM
64

Incorrect damage numbers for buffs and nerfs to autos and pulse

High impact pulse rifles like the lyudmila-d were stated to have a 9% damage reduction. The actual damage was nerfed by 19.4%. It used to do 31 damage per shot. Now it does 25. That's a high impact pulse rifle doing the same damage per shot as the hawksaw... This actually now makes them the slowest killing primary weapons in the game by a considerable margin and not viable in competative gameplay. The messanger used to do 38 to the head. So it should do 34.58, or round it down to 34. It does 33. Which is more than a 13% nerf, again, more than the 9% nerf that was originally stated by the patch notes. Auto rifles in the mid tier range were supposed to receive a 7% damage increese. EG, Zhalo & monte carlo. The damage numbers are identical. Fusion rifles were supposed to receive a nerf to hip fire stability and a buff to ADS stability. It just seems that all round stability was nerfed across the board and they are even worse than before, and they were awful before. The heart was in the right place with this patch but the brain took a day off. This one could have used some play testing guys. Edit 1: Some numbers for you, showing what was originally stated in the patch notes to what they should have been, comparing them to what they actually are. 3 round Burst Archetypes Messenger/ Spare Change: 38 Critical Nirwen’s Mercy/Red Death/NTTE: 33 Critical PDX-45/Hawksaw: 27 Critical 4 Round Burst Archetypes Lyudmila-D: 31 Critical Herja-D/Apple of Dischord: 25 Critical Now, all archetypes of Pulse Rifles were nerfed in the 2.1 December weapon patch (rightfully so) From the Patch notes: Reduce base damage. Low RoF (The Messenger, Spare Change): 9% base damage reduction Med RoF (Hawksaw, No Time To Explain, Red Death): 8% base damage reduction High RoF (Bad Juju): 8% base damage reduction Highest RoF (Grasp of Marok): 2% base damage reduction Note I think they miscategorized the Hawksaw in the patch notes it should be in the Bad Juju category I believe So applying these nerfs using math we see some big inconsistencies [b]What we should see based on the Patch Notes:[/b] 3-round burst pulses: Spare Change Archetype: 38 x 0.91 (9% nerf) = 34.58 → 35 (rounding) Red Death/Nirwen’s Mercy Archetype: 33 x 0.92 (8% nerf) = 30.36 → 30 (rounding) Hawksaw/PDX-45 Archetype: 27 x 0.92 (8% nerf) = 24.84 → 25 (rounding) 4-round burst pulses: Lyudmila-D Archetype: (Here I assume this is in the high-impact group) 31 x 0.91 (9% nerf) = 28.21 → 28 (rounding) Herja-D Archetype: (Here I assume med-impact) 25 x 0.92 (8% nerf) = 23.00 → 23 (exactly) [b]Here is what we actually see in game:[/b] 3 round Burst pulses: Messenger/ Spare Change: 33 Critical 33/38 = 0.864 = to roughly 13% nerf Nirwen’s Mercy/Red Death/NTTE: 29 Critical 29/33 = 0.879 = roughly 12% nerf PDX-45/Hawksaw: 25 Critical ← (This is perfectly consistent with the patch notes) 25/27 = 0.926 = roughly 7.5% nerf 4 Round Burst pulses: Lyudmila-D: Critical: 25 Critical 25/31 = 0.806 = roughly 19% nerf ← (huge nerf, [b]well over twice what was stated in the original patch notes[/b]) Herja-D/Apple of Dischord: 21 Critical 21/25 = 0.84 = roughly 16% nerf ← (huge nerf, [b]twice the amount of damage reduction stated in the original patch notes[/b]) Edit: The patch notes have been revised... to something that is even more baffling and even further away from the values we got. '0.9% reduction from previous base damage'. So less than 1% damage nerf is what they are claiming that they meant to do? Yet they nerfed High impact pulses by almost 20%... Even if that's a typo and they meant to say 9% (which is what the patch notes originally stated), the damage reduction nerf is over twice that amount. AND the new auto rifle patch notes are even further off. Before the patch, Necrochasm did 17 damage to the head. But see, now with the 0.04% damage increase, 148 consecutive critical shots will get you one extra point of damage dealt.

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  • The lead guy on the game, Jon Weisnewski. Even stated on his Twitter account that he literally DID NOT do his job n test the numbers and he release them improperly. Datto even called him out saying the update made no sense, and seemed like a joke. But of course Jon and Bungivision's PR people made sure they said it was just a typo and everything was still fine. Well if you look far enough back to 11/20 n see that the notes are the exact same as they were later described in the more recent update. So it wasn't an accident, they didn't release TWO patch notes with wrong typos and just didn't correct them within THREE WEEKS... They just straight up LIED to us.. TWICE! And they will continue to lie to us, bcuz they think we'll forget within a few months time. I loveeeeddd this game, but now I see this game is just snow balling downhill to s.hit. Bungie will try to salvage and pullout every last penny they can from people outta this game until collectively we all realize we are better than this. Reused, reskinned, rehashed garage. Bungie can't keep a single promise, with each "EXPANSION" they're literally making the game smaller. It's sad when the Feedback forum has more content than the actual game. Get ready for Destiny's candle light vigil, death is upon it.

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  • So we are just straight up getting lied too?

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    • I'm beginning to think that Bungie does no actual testing before releasing stuff.

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      • That sandbox guy has to be the worst person at his job, ever. How can you keep a job after getting something [i][u]this[/u][/i] wrong???? Anyone else would get fired. You get people excited for auto rifles and then secretly go back and change the notes after the fact to basically [i][u]zero[/u][/i] change?

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        • They nefed base damage. You're stating critical hit damage. Obviously they're going to have different percentages.

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        • Your right, pulse rifles gets shitted on by every gun in the game now, they are utterly useless now...

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          • Great post. Maths...its elementary.

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          • Because hiring real testers is too expensive for Bungie's taste. Make the players do it.

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          • the nerf was damage to base stats not damage

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          • yeah i saved a lot of autos for this patch , and well i didnt see any difference

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          • Did you take your target's armor into account?

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            • Bungie Devs failed 4th grade math bro. Quit being so harsh.

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            • The only thing you can say is that: 1. Either lied to us given that the community has been discussing/anticipating these percentage changes for weeks. Or 2. They monumentally ducked shit up and squirmed out of it with the lamest excuse ever: 'oh, ha ha, were sorry guys, it was a typo'. A TYPO. Yeah. Sure.

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              • There was no change to auto rifles.

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                • Edited by Dano2point0: 12/11/2015 8:09:41 PM
                  Thanks for sharing your observations on the pulse rifle damage values. Hakke has to be treated as its own case because of its four-round burst. It gets a greater reduction because the overall goal was to prevent a two-burst kill from happening. I suspect that the percent reductions listed by the Sandbox team were for a standard three-round burst pulse rifle. Accounting for the additional projectile the numbers end up relatively the same in the required number of hits needed to take out an opponent. In other words, we're still looking at three bursts to kill in the best case scenario (i.e., all precision hits) with either a three or four round burst pulse rifle. So yeah the math doesn't quite add up on our end. But I think Sandbox is accounting for more variables like Weisnewski attempted to explain in the most recent update. Also, I think the chart that they published in the November update still illustrates and captures their overall goal in shifting how pulse rifles perform. It's a subtle difference but still raising the requirement on the user to land consistent precision shots to get the fastest kill. You just aren't going to see two or three burst kills anymore, which is how you slow down pulse rifles overwhelming superiority in engagements.

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                  • honestly i have not had any issues with the pulse rifle damage falloff from the patch at all, though what bugs the crap outta me is that the damage got bent over a hand rail and rode into the ground, i have a lyudmila that can still do full damage near half a map away but if i try and take some one out with it they run away before i can finish them, i mean im not a bad shot but come on man, all i ask is that they go back to the originally intended numbers id be fine with that

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                  • I just want to log on and have fun, not really happening with all the crap nerfs and buffs gg.

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                  • Edited by Phreezer: 12/11/2015 6:35:52 PM
                    Oh I agree.. The changing the patch notes AFTER the update. The inconsistent stories. The B.S. about how.. You won't see the difference in the damage numbers you do but over time it will show more damage over the course of a year.. what? huh? Fine, whatever... You lack the integrity to just say.. Yeah we screwed up and we can't seem to get it fixed. How about apologizing to all the people like myself who have been holding onto and infusing their better gear into auto rifles expecting them to be better because THEY told us they were going to implement these numbers? What they should have done was just went ahead and kept their word and made the damage adjustments like they said they were going to be weeks ago (They themselves commented in posts were the damage numbers were discussed.. let alone the fact that they are the ones who told us these numbers to begin with). Why not just go ahead and do the damage adjustments they promised? And if they can't because they can't figure out how. how about just saying.. "We made some mistakes and we're working on getting those numbers corrected.. just give us a little time"? Why not go that route instead of the quietly editing old patch notes.. talking down to us about how the numbers are too complicated for us to understand but not complicated for them to understand.. just regular old deception. I know it's minor but come on.. you have to have some kind of integrity.. even if it's just on the small stuff. Just fix it.. If you made the mistake you eat it. Don't tell the customer that he's getting 10% more food and then when you give him his food it's only .04% more food and then tell him it may seem like less but over the course of the year it will really add up.. Just go back in the kitchen and give him his extra 10% more food like you told him you were going to do...

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                  • My red death does 30 damage though? An the only update I saw was fall off for pulse rifles now.

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                  • My hawksaw does 25 Reflection Sum does 29 or 31 Haven't tried red death

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                  • Edited by alvin2503: 12/10/2015 7:51:46 PM
                    Bungie: allright, this update will bring a little balance and fun to crucible. WAIT! No.... what am i thinking, this is stupid. *proceed to destroy the gun in destiny

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                  • Yes, thanks for testing! Hopefully a hot-fix hits soon. They sure fixed that boot exotic engram glitch fast.

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