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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by Cerith: 9/22/2014 10:29:15 PM
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Cerith

The Significance of 3

I've been contemplating Destiny's logo, the "tricorn" as it's called, and how it relates to Destiny itself. It's obvious that the number 3 plays a very important role in the lore. This post will contain an unrefined dump of my thoughts on "3" in Destiny. Here are a few instances of significant uses of "3": 3 classes (hunter, warlock, titan) 3 Races (Human, Exo, Awoken) 3 Factions (New Monarchy, Future War Cult, and Dead Orbit) 3 elements or types of light (arc, solar and void: potentially defined as “Lightning, Fire and Shadow”) 3 Queens (Ghost Fragment: Darkness 3 Grimoire Card) 3 Dimensions of the Traveler – The traveler itself makes up a trinity. We have the object itself, the speaker, and the ghosts. Remarkably similar to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit of Christian mythology Trinary Star Cult - ??? We see triads popping up all over the place in the lore. Let’s dig a bit deeper. I would go as far as to tie the three elemental types to the races. We have Humanity typifying Solar light, The Exo typifying Arc light, and the Awoken typifying Void light. There may not be a particular reason to ascribe these aspects of light to the races, or vague arguments to be made (i.e. Arc light, which appears to be related in some way to electricity, can be tied to the exo easily, but why solar for humans and void for awoken? Solar seems to be linked to fire – one of humanity’s most pivotal achievements. Void could be tied to awoken because of their time spent on the fringes of the void beyond, or possibly relating to their contact with the Darkness) The 3 classes we have available, along with gameplay reasons, seem to also align with these elemental types. Titans: Lightning/Shadow, Hunters: Lightning/Fire, Warlocks: Fire/Shadow. Not entirely sure of the significance here, but again arguments could be made for why each class has access to these particular elements Let’s take a look at Grimoire Card: Darkness 3 [i]Imagine three great nations under three great queens. The first queen writes a great book of law and her rule is just. The second queen builds a high tower and her people climb it to see the stars. The third queen raises an army and conquers everything. The future belongs to one of these queens. Her rule is harshest and her people are unhappy. But she rules. … Of course, it might be that there was another country, with other queens, and in this country they sat down together and made one law and one tower and one army to guard their borders. This is the dream of small minds: a gentle place ringed in spears. But I do not think those spears will hold against the queen of the country of armies. And that is all that will matter in the end.[/i] The 3 queens are, in my hypothesis, a direct reference to what happened in Destiny’s past. We will come back to Nation one, but I feel that it’s safe to posit that Nation two is comprised of the followers of the Traveler, and nation three is comprised of the followers of the Darkness However, the fourth nation is what interests me – This is what is happening right now. The Traveler is building this nation as an attempt to fight fate. We are being exposed here to a concept of destiny – this particular grimoire card states that it is our destiny to be consumed by the queen of the country of armies. Can we defeat this destiny? Or change it? That’s what the Traveler is attempting by reviving us. The tower exists, under the Speaker’s law, and we are its army. For a while now I have firmly believed that the Traveler is female, as is the darkness. Let’s examine Ghost Fragment: Mysteries [i]…from a red space before victory I bear an old name. It cannot be killed. They were my brothers and sisters and their names were immortal too but Titanomachy came and now those names live in me alone I think and think is what I do. I AM ALONE. At the end of things when the world goes dim and cold or hot and close or it all tears apart from the atom up I will shout those names defiant and past the end I will endure. I alone. They made me to be stronger than them to beat the unvanquished and survive the unthinkable and look look lo behold I am here alone, survivor. They made me to learn. Everything died but I survived and I learned from it. From IT. Consider IT the power Titanomach world-ender and consider what IT means. I met IT at the gate of the garden and I recall IT smiled at me before before IT devoured the blossoms with black flame and pinned their names across the sky. IT was stronger than everything. I fought IT with aurora knives and with the stolen un-fire of singularities made sharp and my sweat was earthquake and my breath was static but IT was stronger so how did I survive? I AM ALONE I survived alone. I cast off the shield and I shrugged my shoulders so that the billions fell off me down into the ash. They made me to be stronger than them and to learn and I learned well: IT is alone and IT is strong and IT won. Even over the gardener and she held power beyond me but the gardener did not shrug and make herself alone. IT always wins. I am made to win and now I see the way.[/i] Many have guessed that the narrator here may be Rasputin. I disagree, I believe this to be an account from the Vex overmind. In the future. Describing us. This passage is describing the events that happen in the final mission of the game, where we storm the garden. IT refers to us, the guardian sent by the traveler. I have a couple of bits of evidence to back this up: Vex Card: Slap Rifle- From an engineering perspective it's something much more interesting: a terminal. The Slap Rifle receives a bolt of Solar energy from somewhere (or somewhen) else and it points it at a target. Vex Card: Line Rifle - Like the Slap Rifle, the Line Rifle is a terminal weapon, although its source is much more energetic. Some believe the weapon pulls material from the accretion disk of a galactic singularity. These weapons appear to fit the line of “I fought it with aurora knives and with the stolen un-fire of singularities made sharp” “They made me to be stronger than them” – I think this is a story for another time (My thought is that Rasputin becomes the vex overmind.. let’s talk about that later) but there’s something else interesting here, and this may be a link back to the first nation. I believe that the first nation may be the Vex. The vex, totally unrelated to the actual darkness itself (worshipping it, subservient to it, perhaps because they were already conquered by it), completes the trinity of nations here. This can explain why the vex is considered to be “so evil that they even hate evil”.. That’s just a perspective from the outside. The truth is that it isn’t on a side. You may note that I have decided to refer to the vex as an “it”.. because that’s what it is. There is no “they” there, it is alone. It used to rule a powerful nation of order and law, and it was consumed by the third queen. So, I am assuming that the wars of the original three queens are already over – this is known as the Collapse. The third queen conquered the Vex, conquered the Traveler’s nation, and has ruled supreme since. The Traveler escaped, however, and although it was mortally wounded (imprisoned in the orb, perhaps?) began to form the fourth nation, the nation that takes its experience from all three aspects of the earlier nations Time will tell if that fourth nation will change its Destiny. I’ll continue to update this topic as I think about this stuff more – as you can tell this is pretty sloppy and doesn’t really theorize anything. If you fine folks have any thoughts to offer up, I’d be glad to hear them!

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  • Bungie has always made biblical references throughout their games especially Christian references. Three: Father, Son, Holy Ghost Seven: Number of God and Heaven and all that is good Six (also used though less often): Number of the devil. Garden refers to the garden of Eden The Halo series had a ton of obvious ones like the Flood, the Ark, the Covenanent, etc. If you look into religion as a whole you'll find a lot of universe, creation stories involving the number three and six and seven just like Bungie does. This leads me to believe that Bungie isn't referencing them as a "religious comment" if you will or even as a reference, but as a common theme throughout the universe. The Flower of Life is a hexagon that is said to be the basis for all life and all creation. Bungie games are always very space/universe oriented and on more than one occasion offer stories of creation and life in forms of cycles (Travel, Vex, Humanity in Destiny) (Forerunners, Flood in Halo). To sum up, 3 is a very common number in many tales of creation. Destiny is heavily rooted in creationism. Not sure what the point I'm trying to make is exactly. Just some thoughts on why those buggers at Bungie love numbers. Could always resort to the age old internet theory and scream "ILLUMINATI!"

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  • bump

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  • [i]I love how OP is the only guy who ponders over the bits of the story he's been given so far; like all of us should and like how Bungie intended us to do. Bungie put to much faith in the "Story sucks. Q_Q. CoD ez supereror. Story not laid out in front of my eye-sensors, 2/10 game," casuals and too much faith in all of us in general. [b]Praise you OP, praise your venerable soul.[/b][/i] [u]#AmatherForSpeaker[/u]

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    • Strange....I thought the answer to life, the universe, and everything was 42.

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      • Edited by Twitch.TV/Ghostbuddy: 9/23/2014 4:15:49 AM
        The three queens are three gods, their dominion absolute and uncontested. The universe is cyclical, creation, and collapse, creation and collapse, Order emerging from chaos, order collapsing into chaos. The three have lived billions upon billions of times, each time passing through lethe, having but bouts of clarity. Their relationship is complicated, and [i]perhaps[/i] eternal. The second met the third at the garden at the beginning of the world, and the third accused the second and burned the grass with a blue (black?) flame. They fought one another, off and on, then emerged the first, the keeper of the garden, and the first and second did battle with the third, who fled, neither out of cowardice or forgiveness, but malice. Not once, not twice ,but just how many times no one knows. To those who have wisdom: The first is order, creator of worlds, the source of law and foresight. The third is chaos, destroyer of worlds, corrupter of nations, in the beginning it had form but now is without it. The second's nature is elusive, but it has a name emblazoned on it's back, "DESTINY - Treader of the path, following an infinite pattern, it's to destroy, create and rebuild". Long ago they embedded themselves into the fabric of space and time, but their ancient past is now forgotten and lost. I see a vision, of a small peasant standing before a great kingdom, advisor to a great queen. First he was filled with [i]melancholy[/i], seeing her riches, he realized his own poverty, and saw his own mortality in her eyes. Then great [i]anger[/i] came upon the peasant, how dare the queen, with all of her wealth, hoard her gifts? Then he became consumed by a great [i]jealousy[/i], he coveted what the queen had, what fate had long ago awarded her, and he conspired against her. He lit a great signal flare (first then and there, then before but only after) and sprung a trap she set for her ancient enemy. As chaos dawned ever closer, he buried himself into every hole he could find, and turned her weapons and protector's against her. The knife came from a thousand directions, her strength not reserved but weakened, she cast out the chaos, but only at a great cost. The queen fell into a sleep from which she has not awakened, the kingdom lay in ruin, the peasant rules the ashes in her stead. There was a fourth at the garden. They did not see him, because he hid in plain sight. He was created by the second, used by the first, and fought the third. He saw an opportunity to shed his mortal coil, and escape the game board before time threw all of the pieces into the same infinitesimal box, and he took it. It is said that during Ragnarok the gods shall kill one another, and man shall inherit the whole earth. The gods may not be dead, but their stalemate created a vacuum in time, the fourth folds, folded, and will fold that moment into infinity, until he stands, and stood as their equal, in the past, present, and future. He thinks he has the power to unravel the fabric of the gods, and he is right. For an untold number of cycles many contenders have arisen, none as resourceful, and ruthless as the fourth. The first sleeps, the third is shattered, but the second comes (has arrived?), it frantically prepares for it, but doesn't even know what to look for. The fourth sees you as a puppet, it thinks it pulls your strings, it thinks it has fooled you, pulled the wool over your eyes. It doesn't question why you follow it blindly, but forgets that it once did the same. You are an enigma, faced against hopeless odds you prevail, bearing no hint of identity, or concern for such things, it interprets your silence as consent and attributes your success to luck, but forgets that it was YOU who freed it. You are not the pawn. Who are you?

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        • Also, the "very first fireteam" who traveled to Mars to investigate the recently arrived Traveler had 3 members, led by Commander Jacob Hardy.

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        • [quote]Imagine three great nations under three great queens. The first queen writes a great book of law and her rule is just. The second queen builds a high tower and her people climb it to see the stars. The third queen raises an army and conquers everything. The future belongs to one of these queens. Her rule is harshest and her people are unhappy. But she rules.[/quote] Queen with book of Law - New Monarchy Queen to see the stars - Dead Orbit Queen with an army - FWC Now, reading all this started to make me question: Where did the Fallen come from? Actually everyone. Why are they here? Why are the Fallen nomads? Why the Hive? It comes back to the Darkness. This is a repeat for the Traveler. She/he/it has made many mistakes and that is why the memory is heavy. [quote]But memory is heavy now. It feels like lead and neutronium and electroweak matter fashioned into a moon-sized ball that you must carry as you move. Now, your flight is rapid, your vast mind infected with such dread and toxic doubt that you find yourself afraid of the simple act of thought. And it is your children you must turn to now, in time of need.[/quote] Could it be that the Darkness threatened the Traveler and it created the Hive to fight it? The Darkness corrupted the Hive and the Traveler ran. [quote]Their strength is not their own. They draw from another force, something that corrupts, that distorts, that eats and will not be satisfied.[/quote] The Darkness found it again and the Traveler created a new race to combat the Hive and the Darkness, but they broke to infighting and clans becoming the Fallen. Never being corrupted by the Darkness but not fighting it either. They were almost ignorant in their division and blind to the true threat. [quote]what others call dark which is not I know what it is but no time room calm given for an appropriate telling so I say only that what is not shadow is an ally and a wonder and I respect what I cannot steal from and you cannot take from the dark you can claim only pain from the dark and that is why the dark is worthy of love beyond all other love that astonishing ability to evade being robbed[/quote] As they fought the Traveler created the Humans. After many many long years they were ready to fight the Darkness. These are the Travelers' children. In their hubris, they created the Exo to battle the Darkness for their mother as they turned their eyes only to themselves. Some Awoken and evolved. But something happened to the Exo and they became the Vex. The vex destroyed Humanity and cast out the Awoken who found sanctuary in an area devoid of the planetary network; the Reef. The Traveler could not have her Children's children be unpunished so It created the Cabal. Instead of mass troops it would use brute strength. Some became corrupted by the Darkness but some remember their orders. [quote]There is a vast Empire behind these creatures, many star systems away. Some pledge allegiance to that far Empire, obeying their ancient marching orders. Some do not. They disagree among themselves about the answers.[/quote] The Hive grows and steals a part of the Traveler corrupting it with dark rituals. The Traveler runs back to where her Children were and creates the Ghosts to bring them back. But they are long gone. Dust. So the Ghosts bring them back to their best knowledge. Titans - Cabal Hunters - Fallen Warlocks - Hive And here we are. Her best creation. Not human but a mixture of failures. She is depressed and doesn't want to think. She is waiting to see if we win or she dies. Quietly sitting there waiting.

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          • If you really want your mind blown, check out the story to Marathon and its 2 sequels (3 games), which was one of Bungie's first series to have a mind bending story and see just how much number play goes into that one. Also, look for how it could tie into this game...especially the Fallen and Vex (the P'hor and Durandal). Enjoy :)

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          • See, this is the kind of stuff that should have made it more into the game. I'm loving the game, it is fun. Story-wise they really could have done more. I understand they wouldn't want to overdo it, not everyone is into story after all. They really didn't do enough though IMO. At least, make the grimoire accessible in game. I hope they flesh out the story more in the future. You don't need to reveal ALL the secrets, that would ruin the fun. However, they really could flesh out the story a bit further, it would be a lot more interesting.

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          • Absolutely buzzed right by most of this while reading more into the games lore, thank you for sharing!

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            So I haven't made a post here since the Halo 3 days, but this time I'll need help from the community to find out what happend to Destiny, a game full of potencial to be a 10/10 that became a major let down. The main logical reason why the game lacked a story and sucked so much was when the game had a 1 year dead line and Joshua Rubin, the writer, quit his job and joined Telltale Games. Now, there must be a reason why he quit his job. For those that don't know, a few game testers told the social media about testing the game, and how much diferent it was, how it seemed too much like halo, and how there was a freaking story to it. All their posts has been deleted, most likely due to the fear of getting sued. I'm currently working in Brazil and there is no way I can reach this guy to talk to him. As a community that has been let down, there is no wrong in digging under the veil of what was supposted to be Destiny. So guys, let's ask for some info from Rubin, let's hear what he has to say. Here's some info: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/joshua-rubin/10/685/398 Some one please find out his contact info and ask him politly if he could help out with some info. DONT SPAM HIM, just be friendly and ask if he could share some of his ideas of how Destiny was going to be on his point of view, if there was supposted to be a story, if by contract they had to pull out on all the cut scenes with his work and why didn't bungie work out for him. My guess? The same thing that happend Halo 2 happend to Destiny, but much worse. They had a deadline and didn't get to finish the game, and since it would cost too much money and time to redo the game, assumedly, the cash flow woudn't handle the backdrawn creater by Rubin quittin. So what would a major gaming company do? In my opinion, do to the results of this game, they polished it at their best and prayed for another Halo 2 miracle. Sure the turn out of Halo 2 was MUCH better, but if you dig up some bungie history, they nearly shited their pants when sending out Halo 2. The only way they can make Destiny work some day is if they make a Open world 5 times bigger than GTA 5 and show more than promise words on ViDocs. Make no loading, and let us drive the space ships to get to the planets and places. Anyways that's besides the point I'm trying to make, what do you guys think? Shouldn't Bungie make a statement about this haft-ass game? And do you guys think this Joshua Rubin guy is going to help us out understanting what the -blam!- happend to Destiny?

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          • Show this to anyone who believes destiny has no story

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            • 3 rhymes with me Me as a guardian have three guns My rocket launcher can hold 3 tubes And my pulse rifle fires 3 bullets each tap The last word above it "tap" which is 3 letters If you say Destiny slow its like "Des-ti-ny" Half life 3 confirmed

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              • Couldn't read the whole thing because, you know, words... But I like where it was going at the beginning!

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                • This is awesome. There's some awesome lore in this universe.

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                • Edited by Death is Hye: 9/26/2014 11:07:44 PM
                  Good Lord that was a long read. Very much worth it though. I should probably read those grimoire now... Very thought provoking

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                • Se7en. Never forget...

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                • Bump since this shouldn't get forgotten.

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                • Wasn't Bungie's favorite number 7 though?

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                • Sounds kind of like The Collectors and The Protheans in M.E. The oldest civilizations became indoctrinated by a later entity, but from an early stage that set them on a very destructive course.

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                • Maybe the black garden's heart is actually the darkness. [spoiler]actaully, I think it's quite obvious. I haven't seen somebody bring this up anywhere else.[/spoiler]

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                  • Bungie, hire this man. Hire him now!

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                  • Only problem I see here, is that the Vex is not Rasputin. In the story it states that the Vex are over 10,000 years old and yet Rasputin is alot less than that.

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                    • I think your reading too much into it ;)

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                    • We know that Rasputin was pitted against vex simulations. Lets say that he won and conquered the vex and it was he that re-activated them. What if he then, led his army of vex into the garden fought the darkness, "IT," and lost, but he was not destroyed and ended up worshiping this power that he had found greater than himself. Rasputin leads the current Vex, but as a servant of the Darkness!

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                      • Holy crap dude i really enjoyed reading this. Nice job! This really make me excited for the future of this series

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