[b]1. Socialists want to seize your property and belongings to be given to the state.[/b]
When we purport the abolition of private property, what we are referring to is the socialization (common ownership) of the means of production (all the stuff such as machinery and capital used to generate wealth) so that the lower classes have a better means to generate wealth, and thus diminish inequality.
Socialists have no desire to take your clothes, car and house. In reality, the banks have better claims to your personal belongings than we do.
[b]2. Socialists are anti democratic and want to establish authoritarian rule.[/b]
The two-party system (in the US particularly) is in fact a dictatorship of the rich. Under it, working people create all the wealth, but capitalists (who own the corporations and banks) have all the economic governance and utilise it to control and influence politics, to in turn, create more control, power and influence. That fact never changes, and the truth of the matter is that it never will under capitalism, even if we have the right to vote.
In a socialist system, natural resources cannot be sucked dry by those with swaths of power and money. They are equally distributed in adherence to a plan conducted by union syndicates and their organisations, instead of being concentrated in the hands of the elite. This would create a grounding for true democracy, more so than capitalism could ever hope to provide.
[b]3. Socialism provides no incentives to work.[/b]
On the contrary. Socialism rewards hard work. Capitalism rewards corporatist ethically dubious behavior. Under socialism, the means of production are commonly owned, and thus the person working is compensated accordingly for the work they do.
[b]4. Socialism died with the Soviet Union.[/b]
Socialism was never implemented in the Soviet Union, nor was Communism. When Stalin ascended to power, he wanted complete unquestionable obedience to the state, as well as the state itself (a singular entity, not owned by the people) controlling the means of production, including economic and social policy. It completely defied the key tenets of what socialism sought out to do in the first place.
[b]5. Everyone gets paid the same, regardless of their skill level.[/b]
It's true socialism purports the elimination of the classes to a certain degree. This however, does not necessarily result in the abolition of the wage system. Rather, the main idea behind socialism is that someone will never be compensated more just for owning a company.
Money can also be assigned to your occupation accordingly. However, the people who do the actual work are the ones being compensated, instead of the people who just so happen to own an organisation.
So yeah, just thought I'd clarify and debunk a few myths floating around in the politics threads. I'm sure there are more misconceptions, so anyone who considers themselves a socialist or an admirer of socialism can add to the list if they so desire, and I will amend the OP.
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This is what I'm getting from this thread: 1. "The government won't take your land, they simply control your land. Although they technically won't take it, they do have the power to do so." 3. "There is incentive to work (although that incentive is not stated), but by all technicalities, you don't have to." 4. "Theoretical socialism has never been enacted, so it's unfair to compare the theoretical system to those that have actually been put into place." 5. "Owning an organization is not grounds for making a higher wage, and ultimately the government gets to decide your wages." k
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There's a boom called Animal Farm. You should read it.
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3 and 5 cancel each other out.
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>2014 >socialists thinking they can achieve socialism without an authoritarian and totalitarian government a part of me really wants to deconstruct your whole argument, but im both too lazy and know that it would inevitably prove fruitless, so i'll just leave you with this; why choose the side that restricts freedoms over the side that wants give you as much freedom as possible
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The last one is commonly known for sure.
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You reaffirm my belief that socialism is an unfeasible economic system.
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The best part about it is how easily it mixes with fascism
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Socialism lol
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As a former socialist, the only thing you thing you said that's right was #4
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Resource based economy FTW
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None of this can be implemented without a strong, centralized, authoritarian government. As seen in real life, those tend to get out of hand. So I will never support socialism as a viable form of government, or whatever you want to call it. Is it a social model? Maybe that's a better term.
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>People not realizing that with socialism this site wouldn't exist because it doesn't benefit the state
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This thread reaffirms that I am indeed not a loony for recognizing how great Socialism would be if it would be pulled off. All of that would be better for us in the long run than a lot of other things. +1 OP
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Not to mention that it's not just one policy, but is actually highly adaptable. It's largely about reorganizing the means of production, not equalizing pay. Instead of a few at the top reaping benefits for (supposedly) little work, that profit and power is shuffled down the ranks to prop up the lower classes proportionally, and resources are allocated by the government.
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Reported for spreading the devil's lies.
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Edited by cxkxr: 5/4/2014 12:17:26 AMUtopians... 5 contradicts 3. 4. Socialism and communism CANNOT exist without some form of authoritarian coercion. It CANNOT exist voluntarily, which contradicts 1 & 2.
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capitalism loves me, this i know, for the koch brothers tell me so.
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Disregard the Sir
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inb4 stupid gaara posts
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You're a socialist, now?
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Socialists? On BNET? Not surprised the least.
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Well done...
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4,5 are correct. Everything else? Nope.
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So more or better work still lets you earn more pay?
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You forgot the most important misconception. Socialism = Communism.
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Watch this get ignored by the people who switch off or go into full blown RED ANTI COMMIE DEFENCE MODE at the sound of the word. It's funny that all the USA seems to understand about socialism is the complete opposite to what it really is. Ah well, we can enjoy a nice fair life and they can keep swallowing the shit that people like Rupert Murdoch diarrhoea out into their waiting mouths.