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11/2/2013 9:21:20 PM
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Reading this only engendered further questions in my mind. Specifically: how does difficulty selection Work? I don't want people joining my game and suddenly it's on heroic. Im sure there are also people who don't want me joining them and bumping it up to legendary. Conversely, I would love to meet up with randies and have an adventure the way bungie advertises, but I would be reluctant to do so if joining meant bumping down the difficulty. Having a static difficulty could solve this problem, but if the bar is set too low It could become easy and boring to veterans; too high, however, and it risks becoming to challenging and inaccessible to new comers. Solution?
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  • [quote]Reading this only engendered further questions in my mind. Specifically: how does difficulty selection Work? I don't want people joining my game and suddenly it's on heroic. Im sure there are also people who don't want me joining them and bumping it up to legendary. Conversely, I would love to meet up with randies and have an adventure the way bungie advertises, but I would be reluctant to do so if joining meant bumping down the difficulty. Having a static difficulty could solve this problem, but if the bar is set too low It could become easy and boring to veterans; too high, however, and it risks becoming to challenging and inaccessible to new comers. Solution?[/quote] I hope that there isn't a difficulty setting, much like the system in borderlands, but if there is, it should be host based.

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  • Edited by bmatt17: 11/2/2013 11:44:50 PM
    I'd prefer just one difficulty setting, if you're good you can get through an area lower level and if you're not so good level up some and it'll be easier. For Strikes and raids there can be the normal difficulty and a more challenging legendary version for those that want greater challenge and greater rewards.

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  • This points out exactly whats wrong with games, too easy

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  • There will be no difficulty setting

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  • More fundamental question: Will difficulty even be a thing for this game? Halo difficulty settings were created to allow scalability of challenge for single-player campaigns. Once you hit multiplayer, either the firefights were mutually agreed upon or there is only one damage setting shared for all players. MMOs generally scale difficulty by location. Enemies are leveled according to what you are expected to have grinded to by the time you reach an area. This creates walls for where a new player can enter, which detracts from adventuring. Borderlands does something similar, except that the levels are determined by what you entered an area with for the first time (and only when the plot allows you to). Then, levels don't scale unless it's one of the last areas, such as Lynchwood. The bigger problem with multiplayer co-op in that game, however, is that newer players are essentially useless if they join a session where the hosting players are interested in an area that is too high a level for them to keep up. The number-based damage system leaves the low-level characters unable to use their skills to perform significantly (barring slag, phaselock, unique enemy weaknesses, and static explosives). It isn't a very considerate leveling system, and it makes some locations too weaksauce to return to for anything other than target practice and ammo-hoarding after leveling so much afterwards. Bungie wants an invested player to be able to play alongside a new player. This presumably also applies to different levels of skill in the case of co-op. The answer lies in what the significance of leveling in Destiny is and whether or not difficulty settings are a thing. If difficulty setting isn't there, the answer is that you don't have the problem and your consideration of static difficulty is correct. Enemies will presumably present a challenge at first, but the challenge will be accessible and may not be at your speed for anything but relaxation. Later levels in the campaign may be designed to be more difficult to overcome, but the numbers are the same in terms of damage and health. Your niche as a hardcore player may have to be found in other activities such as competitive multiplayer or challenge modes in the form of raids and strikes (which may be made more difficult by design, unlike the campaign and general destinations). Presumably, though, if there were difficulties, you could be matched with only people who are playing at your level. It still employs the same seamless matchmaking, but adds an additional parameter for the system to consider before matching you to other players. Yes, you shouldn't be made to sacrifice your desire to push limits, and others shouldn't be forced into a position beyond their comfort zone if that's not their speed. Your randies will be people who also play legendary like you. This question then brings up the next question of how will leveling affect the gameplay. We have seen in the E3 demo that enemies have levels, as does equipment and your character. Bungie doesn't want there to be "number-shooting" like Borderlands, but it leaves you wondering what the significance of the leveling system will be.

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  • I always kinda figured that the each enemy would have a base level and then grow in scale to the difficulty that area is supposed to have in terms of your level. Then as you add more players they would add more enemies. Some enemies would inherently be weaker then you and just be a nuisance while there would be a couple in a pack that would be much more challenging. I thought that each mission would have an inherent difficulty, like say the first mission on the moon is 3/5 difficulty and then attacking the depths of the hellmouth would be a 5/5. The enemies inside each would grow as you grow and number of players in your fireteam grow to accommodate and to always keep the game some what challenging instead of being able to just farm in certain areas once you have grown to a certain level. Obviously some areas would still be seen as farming areas relative to the harder areas. I know that this would make it difficult for "a new player and a player six months down the road" to play together but this just seems like the most logical way a game that is supposed to have the longevity and replayability as Destiny would be. I'm also sure that if this is how difficulty would be, that Bungie would have some sort of algorithm to balance out the high level player with the brand new friend. Maybe they would add more of the low level minion enemies that the low level player would focus on and then make the captains or higher grade enemies a lot closer to the higher level players level and in order to prevail the high level would have to take out the captains while the new player focused on the shanks or dregs instead of the higher player just mowing down the entire hoard. Maybe not the smoothest game play in that case but I feel a structure in this way would benefit the whole playerbase and replayability. Let me know if I overlooked something or you disagree though.

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  • Non-uniform enemy capability is a good idea. While I, too, desire the old days of unapologetic games with hard-to-overcome hurdles in their stories, I feel Bungie's emphasis may be in more social aspects of the game and will tend towards accessibility in story missions (the Hellmouth may not be a story mission, who knows), not that I necessarily want that myself. The sky would still be the limit outside of that category, though. The flexibility that the formula for Destiny offers to Bungie is that they can raise the stakes and load the scales in other activities, such as their mentioned strikes and raids that exist apart from the story. If there is a static difficulty, the story and outer environments must accommodate a general level of skill, but a challenge mode can be more challenging than the norm. How Bungie would achieve that is as vague as how they indicate private spaces and public spaces, though.

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  • And I apologize for how ugly and long that is.

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  • Try paragraph breaks every three or four sentences, separating with whole blank lines the way I do. People will still call it a wall, but that will give the reader time to breathe between segments.

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  • Yeah, the match making seems like the best solution, but I can see that becoming problematic as the population starts to wear thin. I've never cared for the tiered by area model because I feel it detracts from immersion for me. It always had me wondering things like "why is this species so pathetic, and if they are then how did they survive to the point that I can hunt them for xp?" Or in the destiny case it would probably have me saying something like "wow the cabal wreck so hard and the fallen are so sorry, why don't the cabal just Own the whole system?" (Just an example). Im curious to see how bungie balances all these spinning plates they have going.

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  • The launch on four platforms may impact the developments of player population and distribution. We have only seen their period of exclusive console development in terms of those population charts for Halo games, but now the environment is different. We'll have to see how that plays out along with what sort of acclaim the game receives. After all, this game and the one's that follow in the series are apparently structured to be habitually played and revisited through a decade. I'm not hot about a tier by area model either. I hope they consider the matchmaking or static difficulty options seriously... which I'm sure they are doing right now. Alpha testing has, of course, been an emphasized part of the game's development. They want to make games that [i]they[/i] want to play as well.

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  • They probably pair people that are relatively close in level. But one of their videos had a level 5, 6, 11, and a couple 20's I think so I honestly don't know.

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