This entire post was originally posted as a response to another person's thread. After many messages requesting it, I have made it its own thread to add to the discussion. Maybe it will cause Bungie to realize the destruction they've caused in their own IP and to their own reputation as a professional game developer. Most likely it will have zero impact as Bungie has shown repeatedly through their lies and obfuscations that they really do not care what the community thinks/desires. But for those people who were here for and have enjoyed Gaming alongside Bungie.old, maybe we can help Bungie.new get back on the right track. A good start would be getting rid of Luke "you don't know what you want, I know what you want" Smith. But I digress. So, to the topic at hand; [b]Has Bungie removed more content from the game than they've added?[/b] Simple answer: Yes. Long explanation: Let's look at what Bungie has done with their DLC and updates. - [b]Vanilla Destiny:[/b] Raid, Strikes, many weapons and armor. The weapons and armors are great to play with (your Guardian actually [i]feels[/i] powerful, and the weapons are useful and varied for many situations). The areas to explore (while small) are great, good enemy spreads, timed events are great, the vault of Glass is a blast, and there were something like 10 or so PvP maps. The game is awesome, if a bit small on the content side, but we have hope for the future of Destiny. - [b]The Dark Blows releases:[/b] Add in less weapons and armor than we had with Vanilla Destiny, but they take all of the vanilla weapons and armors (except for Raid gear) out of the game. The new weapons don't perform as well as the vanilla weapons, which makes those hard-to-find vanilla weapons that we grinded our asses off for, even more valuable; but since they've removed all but the Raid weapons/armors from the game, they cannot be found/acquired and are thus obsolete in favor of a smaller number of worse-performing weapons/armors. The further kick in the nuts is that most of the "new" weapons are simply reskinned/colored versions of vanilla weapons... Add in one new Raid, not as contiguous or smooth-flowing from one area to the next as the Vault, but it's still good), add in three new Strikes, but they take three vanilla Strikes out of the rotation. In the TDB story, we get one new area, and a previous area had a previously closed off section opened, other than that we're running previously explored areas just in reverse. They added in a couple of new currencies and upgrade mats, which made things a bit more confusing, but we're still holding out hope even though the game just shrank by a bit. But Bungie says that "they hear us" and assure us that it will get better. Not worth $20 USD, but we grit the teeth and bear it. - [b]The House of Disappointment releases:[/b] Even though all of their marketing to this point (and community troll messages in the Weekly Letdown letters) promised a new Raid, we got an Arena. the promise was made though that Bungie was just "polishing up" the Raid for a later release a month or two down the road. We got a new social area in The Reef, but find out that it holds far less players per server than the Tower did (nine (9) players max in the Reef at a time...). Aside from a previous area in the Cosmodrome and on Venus finally having the rest of it unlocked, we get zero new areas. In fact, we're running even more already trodden ground in reverse. Again. Add in even less weapons and armor than in The Dark Blows (after flat-out removing all weapons and armors that existed beforehand from the game...), but now [b]every[/b] weapon and armor added in is a simple reskin that they probably had the interns do in their spare time. The weapons raise the damage cap again, and after some Gamers howling in rage, Etheric Light is added in that allows you to upgrade Vanilla and TDB weapons and armors to the new maximum. This goes a long way with Gamers to make up for the game's shortcomings and that fact that the game has shrunk remarkably by this point. Bungie also adds in [b]more[/b] currencies and upgrade mats, because our general confusion levels just weren't where they should be according to Bungie's precious spreadsheets. The grind gets lengthened even more, but we've got our Vanilla weapons and armors at the new max, so we're willing to suffer through it for a bit more. Another $20 USD, but we're holding out hope... a very, very small amount of hope as Gamer ire/rage continues to rise. Bungie says that they're still listening, but Gamers are starting to see that while they may be heard, they are also being summarily ignored. *** Oh, yeah; remember that Raid I mentioned, the one pushed back for "polishing"? Never. Arrived. Apparently the definition of "promise" means something different than I thought... *** *** The infamous "you'll throw money at your TV" statement is released by Luke "may he burn in hell" Smith. *** - [b]The Taken King releases:[/b] Bungie: "We've taken everything you know and have explored in the game, and either removed it entirely, or made it obsolete." Sure, The Dreadnought is a new explorable area, but it's far smaller than anything released before. There is a brand new slate of weapons and armors released, but at the cost of every single piece of gear that came before this being removed from the game entirely or made obsolete and weakened by an update just a month before TTK drops. New weapons seem great, until you find out that most of them are completely worthless and cannot be upgraded. They streamlined the currency and upgrade systems, but it's worse than what existed in Vanilla Destiny by most accounts. This time, the entire DLC is made to increase and lengthen the grind. Though how much damage your weapons deal was completely retooled, overall all weapons do less damage than before, and the enemies got a HP upgrade that makes killing even a small pack of Dregs an interminable slog. Elemental damage is removed from all TTK weapons, leaving only older Raid weapons with elemental damage. While that might seem great for older Weapons, they're so far behind on the new damage curve, they may as well just fire harsh language at your enemies... This change was made to "increase weapon diversity", but it does exactly the opposite. Rather than carry several different Primary Weapons with you for a variety of situations, now the one Primary that you're most comfortable using will handle [b]every[/b] situation. This means you have no reason or cause to ever switch one Primary weapons out for another. One weapon will handle everything. Mix in that Bungie is now selling a level boost in their cash shop that makes everything in the game before TTK content obsolete and pointless to even run through, and the game shrank by quite a lot with the TTK release. Add in that throughout this entire process; updates were made to "balance" weapons in PvP, but those changes generally made all the experiences worse in PvP (quickly rotating Meta...). Worse still; updates meant to enhance the PvP experience are also applied to the PvE side of the game, generally neutering Guardian power when roaming the wilderness. Bungie says that they're still listening, but it's obvious that Bungie is listening to what the Gamers want, and doing the exact opposite of that. Player population drops lower than thought possible, and it was already dropping rapidly to begin with. So yes, Destiny has shrunk quite a lot since the Vanilla game released. It's sad, especially if you go back and watch the game we were supposed to get before New Bungie forced out Joe Staten and Marty O'Donnell. It's a shame. But New Bungie has none of the Talent, Imagination, or Integrity that Old Bungie possessed in spades. Why anyone still plays this sham of a game is beyond me. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [quote]Posted by: Pelo McSoy Note that anyone who didn't buy the TTK can't access any of the Heroic Strikes or Nightfalls anymore, making it virtually impossible for them to get Strange Coins for the [needlessly] expensive Legacy Engrams from Xur.[/quote][quote]Posted by: Hektik Ignoring that TDB and HoW are cut content, Y1, because of etheric light, had 2 raids, 1 PoE, 1 NF. Y2 ripped all that away and gave us 1raid. Y2 has left this game empty. The management team is doing it's deadlevel best to kill this game. The community's fervor is the only reason this game is still alive, and that has an expiration date.[/quote] Here's another fine point to go along with all that they removed. Content you've [b]already paid for[/b], but can no longer access/play/adjust if you don't buy TTK.[quote]Posted by: BizzerkerBauer Hey, don't forget that they removed all of the old difficulty levels for missions in favor of the new 240 Light difficulty. Players without TTK can't even adjust the difficulty levels of the old missions anymore, which is something that they'd previously been able to do since day one of the game.[/quote]Also; Nightfalls, Entire Strike playlists, PvP, etc. All content you've already paid for, all now blocked to you if you don't pay even more money for TTK. The consumer abuses practiced by Bungie are approaching Legendary status. Sadly, that's the only thing in this game that is legendary...