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Edited by Lord Revan:
2/26/2015 8:25:46 AM
91
Auto Rifles and general "Balance". Your ball, Bungie.
In the light of the most recent update meant to improve destiny's PvP, I decided to write a post about the state of the weapons and perceived "balance"- specifically, what the developers are actually intending to do.
First, I'll introduce myself as to lend some credibility to the nature of this post. I've played the game since alpha all the way through the beta and from day one onwards. Since PvP is where my gaming passion lies, I play destiny quite consistently, and have fared pretty well.
http://destinytracker.com/destiny/crucible/ps/PS_TRUDODYR
I'm top 5% in overall score, kills, KDR and numerous other areas. I also use all three classes in PvP, although I usually switch between hunter and warlock. I use a lot of different weapons, although no longer auto rifles.
Auto Rifles.
We all know that in destiny there are three main classes of auto rifles- and that one of these, in particular, has caused much grief and brought the nerf hammer down hard on the class as a whole.
100 ROF/ 2 Impact: Atheon's Epilogue, The Nechrochasm, payback sOs.
88 ROF/ 8 Impact: Shingen, Up for Anything, For the People, Do Gooder V, Hard light, Monte Carlo, Abyss Defiant.
77 ROF/ 28 Impact: Suros Regime, Vanquisher VIII, Grim Citizen III, Shadow Price, Galahad-E.
If you have played destiny for very long and use Auto rifles, you know that the 77/28 class produces the best auto rifles in the game. And because of perceived inbalances we have seen all 3 subclasses nerfed twice.
Shadow Price: Before patch was 27/22 damage. After patch: 23/18.
Suros Regime: Before: 37/30. After? An abysmal 32 critical. This weapon has now seen a huge overall nerf since the game came out. To put this in perspective, pre patch Red Death did 32 critical per hit. Suros, Which has a much slower fire rate, is now at a slower kill time than pre patch red death was... and that weapon, like all other pulse rifles, received almost a 10% damage buff. And this isn't even going into how useless most auto rifles are in PvE now.
The kill times and damage for the other ARs is even worse. I can understand wanting to improve weapon diversity, but you don't achieve this by nerfing an entire class right into the ground.
I'd love to see the most recent weapon stats from Iron banner 5.0. And when IB 6 comes out, I want you to watch how nonexistent auto rifles are. If we are talking balance, why do snipers still have "final round" perk?
I'd love to hear from the dev team about what their desired overall goal is here, because this update is at best an odd step forward for destiny PvP.
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164 RepliesHello! Thanks for the feedback and thanks for playing! We've heard pretty mixed feedback about Autos since 1.1.1 went live. Some people love the changes (probably the people who you were annihilating earlier) and some people think we went too far. We're still listening, still playing everyday, and always trying to deliver a great experience in competitive multiplayer. It was always our intention for the Destiny sandbox to be an evolving game-scape (did I just make that term up?), similar to games like StarCraft and LoL, where balance changes get rolled out based on emerging player trends and play-styles. Not to sound like a broken record, but to address your question of the desired overall goal I think we explained our intentions Weapon Update Devblog that came out a while back. Here's the link in case you missed it: https://www.bungie.net/7_Destiny-Weapon-Tuning/en/News/News?aid=12557 AUTO RIFLES It’s our goal for the Auto Rifle to be a visceral, close-to-medium range chainsaw. It should reward target tracking, and drop in effectiveness at longer ranges. Looking at raw DPS [damage per second], the Auto Rifle is the most lethal primary weapon class across all of Destiny’s activities. That’s not just Suros. If you look at the top ten lethal weapons over a period of thirty days, six of them are Auto Rifles. Note the spike in SUROS starting on 1/13 - likely due to the Iron Banner Auto Rifle bounty. The ratios stay relatively consistent for non-Suros autos when Iron Banner is not in session. It’s extremely effective in most combat scenarios and engagement distances. In fact, it is so effective that it’s intended role in the Primary family is being partially obscured. We want you to be able to deliver a steady stream of precision damage with an Auto Rifle, and you still can, but you’ll need to get a little bit closer. Goals: •Auto Rifle is optimal at close to medium range •Damage, Stability, and Range are tuned such that players desire Stability for reliable close quarters damage, or Range for better accuracy at a distance Changes: •Reduce base damage of Auto Rifles by 2.5% (averaged across Rate of Fire stats, higher RoF took less of a reduction than low RoF) •Reduce effective range values so that damage falloff and accuracy are a stronger factor in combat decisions •Range reduction is less severe in the higher stat values, so now your range stat is more critical to long distance engagements
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Their balance team is garbage. They must not even play their own game, they probably just listen to what people cry about
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I believe there "nerf" because of the glass half full perk, suros is still crazy damage headshot with last round, but I use auto rifles stills from time to time in ib and cruciable, s. Wrath being my fav.
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1 ReplyShameless bump; this post now rings truer than ever. I'm looking forward to bungies upcoming insight into new weapon updates.
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1 ReplyGreat post, OP. The recent patch was too heavy handed on the auto-rifles. Taking the entire class down to address one or two truly out of balance weapons is goofy, and shortsighted. Pair that change with the removal of heavy ammo drops from downed Guardians, and I don't know what they're doing. Would have never guessed the folks that made could make such a wretched PVP experience.
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A answer like a robot. How many gamers are thinking that the last patch was a good idea? That is a question that you have to answer Bungie ! Some started votes says that approx 90% of the gamers are thinking that you Bungie are on the wrong way. An don't tell us you are playing the game. That is the biggest lie. Otherwise you would recognize your owm mistakes.
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Id like the freedom to choose how we place primary and secondary. For example an auto as primary and hand cannon as secondary back up.
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6 RepliesBungie doesn't give a shit.. There PVP players were happy for like 20 mins then found something new to bitch about. I tried to hold out for house of wolves but i would just assume not play it and chalk it up as Bungie got me with there pve advertisements on a game that all they care about is pvp.. Lesson learned...... Money will be spent better in the future and never on a Bungie product again
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4 RepliesAgreed, Bungie took it a bit too far. I don't disagree with their intent, only their method - ARs have been too strong since the Alpha dominating at all ranges in every situation. But now what they've effectively done is rendered only the 1 class as you pointed out usable, and even then that class is hurting pretty badly now even with maxed range. I believe that part of the solution lies in putting back the old 1.5x headshot multiplier. 1.25 is a joke, especially with all the dps nerfs. You may as well not even bother aiming for the head with the 100 ROF weapons. Bungie wants ARs to be dominant in CQB and good at mid range - increasing the headshot values would accomplish this handily while preserving overall balance since as of the recent patch, ARs can't be used to snipe anymore which I am totally fine with. All that needs to be done is to properly compensate them with more damage up close. As for Suros, I would restore the ORIGINAL increased damage from the magazine and ditch the healing mechanic from it altogether - it never made any sense and for the longest time Suros was just a strictly better red death. We don't need 2 exotics that do the same thing either, let Red Death be the precision healing weapon and Suros be the desperation war machine. It won't be nearly so strong even with the old damage boost for the bottom half of the magizine without the chance to also heal. It's either that, or make each bullet heal for a % of the damage but I'd rather the healing mechanic simply be removed entirely as it feels out of place.
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bump. put the assault rifles back the way they were. pulse rifles usage increase is minimal because that archetype is just stupid. players are moving heavily to hand cannons instead because its what works. thorn is the new suros lol.
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At what point are you, Bungie, going to admit this was a mistake and undo the AR nerf? Leave the stupid pulse rifle boost in place if you like but put the teeth back in my ARs...
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SUPPORT THE PVE COMMUNITY, VOTE, COMMENT, SUPPORT, BUMP ETC. BRING BACK AUTO's IN PVE! https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/105279649/0/0
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I liked your post. Can you please support this form post: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/105469487/0/0 [b]#StopNerfingPvEForPvP[/b]
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4 RepliesDo you have numbers for the other archetypes?
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Fuuck bungie and their bullshit. I never thought i would gladly go back to call of duty. Did activision pay you enough to fuuck up your game so you went and destroyed it?
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3 RepliesI agree with you. I always used ARs since the game came out but lately I find myself being *forced* into selecting something different to be able to keep up. Specially if I'm going up against a good player using Thorn or Hawkmoon, I can forget about using the Suros Regime. It was already on the brink before the patch and then they finally put the nail on the coffin. I still use the Suros whenever I can because its what feels more natural to me but when the going gets tough its Thorn for me (hell, I even had games where the stranger's rifle fared better than the Suros for crying out loud).
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4 RepliesI agree with this. Ar's should have been left alone, pulse rifles buffed, and shotties buffed in pve only. Can't say much about fusion rifles since i haven't played enough pvp to get killed by them much but shotguns found me plenty of times. There is a reason auto rifles are popular. Because they are FUN to use. I believe the majority of players would agree they enjoy using auto rifles in most shooters. I have also enjoyed hand cannons in this game so i hope they didn't hurt them too much. Bungie, if you wanted more people using different weapons, then just make those weapons more viable, do not ruin weapons people already enjoy please.
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Bumpity Bump!
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Seems that the ATF is following your companies example for American citizens. Someone was calling for a nerf to the exotic pistol that had to much range.
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Excuse me, but can you please support this form post: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/105469487/0/0 [b]#StopNerfingPvEForPvP[/b]
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1 ReplyConsidering that Bungie completely dropped the ball here, I don't think giving it back to them is a good idea. In fact, I'd wager a year of my considerable salary that I could make better design decisions than they are making at this point, and I don't design video games for a living.
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6 RepliesFirst note that I do not use auto rifles, PVE or PVP. I do think that a pulse rifle buff was necessary, however, the auto rifle debuff was not. I expect Bungie to revert this as auto rifles have been reverted to were pulse rifles were before the patch.
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Bump. This is my question. Why the AR nerf.
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