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8/30/2014 7:05:35 AM
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It astounds me that people defend the lack of matchmaking.
Do you really give a **** if someone has the chance to try a Raid with a pickup group? Does it somehow diminish your gameplay?
In reality, objecting to matchmaking is a simple superiority complex. People think they somehow deserve to play more of the game because they are willing to populate their friend list with random people to get around an artificial barrier to gameplay.
The truth of the matter, is that having a potentially bad experience with a pickup group, is a better option than restricting the ability to do Raids entirely. It's my choice to try a raid with random people or not - at least it SHOULD be my choice.
After all, I paid the same amount of money for the game experience as someone with 200 "friends" on their list.
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It is honestly hilarious how few get the concept of choice. Don't want it? Don't use it. Need it? Well then go for it. Options can only be beneficial. So far, though, the message from the devs has been to play the way they want, whether we like it or not.
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Have you seen the people you get in strikes? I'd rather try and solo the raid then deal with that shit
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I dont want no scrubs.
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Sooo you think Bungie had a superiority complex?
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I agree 100%. MM is an independent feature. It will not impact those who have extensive friends list to do raids with in any way, shape, or form. To not allow MM is an elitist mentality at it's core. Furthermore, the only argument I can see people making is that the Legendary gear will be more common in the game world because MM will allow more people. Well if MM is going to make raids far more difficult (and thus gear not obtained) problem takes care of itself, doesn't it. I just don't understand why people are advocating a large chunk of gameplay (which we all have paid for) to be inaccessible to someone, even though that accessibility doesn't impact them whatsoever. Sounds like elitism to me.
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Edited by TSK Sefier: 8/30/2014 5:03:30 PMIn reality the truth of the matter is that's your opinion and a poorly supported one at that. I have not seen a superiority complex and i certainly didn't display one in my writing. This is the way the game is [b]intended[/b] to be played hence why Bungie intentionally left it out. Yes I obviously care about the issue and for a variety of reasons I think it's a bad idea as do Bungie also. I believe everyone deserves to play and it is easily accessible for everyone. I hope everyone makes the effort to play the mode. You paid the same amount of money as every other gamer and you're getting the same options. Nobody is getting exclusive match-making abilities. You have a choice in whether or not you want to play it.
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People are "matchmaking" already via random invites in the tower. Suggesting having this more organized (by Bungie) would diminish the [b]intended[/b] experience is naive.
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The tower method is better than matchmaking. The inviter is selectively choosing who he wants to play with instead of having a system force a random with him. DestinyLFG is the best current alternative to matchmaking. The cons of matchmaking outweigh the pros. We can list them and I would have a legitimate list that 1'up yours.
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Edited by Xenomorph: 11/7/2014 3:40:20 AMMaybe your list would 1up mine if it were a traditional matchmaking system, but I wouldn't propose such a thing. I would adopt the same system as used by Mass Effect 3... You have a means to start matchmaking, and as such you are the leader of that fireteam, there's a voting system, and it's done simply like ME3, or you search for a fireteam and let the chips fall where they may. Of course voice would need to be enabled automatically in this scenario. So there's that.... Its as simple or as difficult as you want to make it. Most people can't think past their bias.
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I look at things objectively not subjectively. My bias doesn't play a role in the facts of the number of pros vs cons. I'm the case of searching for a fireteam and letting things "fall" which is the traditional matchmaking method, they will do just that fall apart. How would this "voting" method work in a raid since you're not voting on different raid maps and difficulty.
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Look, I said before I see both points... You just seem intent on not doing the same.
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Not really because i was willing to listen to you and hear you out but I'm not going to agree with a bad idea. I'm not going to co-sign adding a feature that will bring a onset of new problems. Matchmaking would have to be tested through tons of trial and error with a think tank to work out potential problems. There would have to be enough features and options to tailor the matchmaking to player types and calculations made on the backend to prevent being paired with people that are unsupportive. Since this game doesn't believe in penalizing players for unsportsmanlike conduct there will stone measure taken into place for them as well.
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I do agree there should be penalties in place for habitual quitters, bad sports and general poor social form. Look man, I'm not looking to pick a fight here with you, I enjoy a good debate... But come on, give people a choice... By doing so doesn't mean you'll be affected.
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I would've inevitably be affected if a want to 5-man or 4-man the raid. It would automatically matchmake me. It can't turn it off once it's on.
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Edited by Xenomorph: 11/8/2014 9:55:27 PMI'm sorry, I must be missing something. You'd have the current system of how it works... Nothing changes there. But you'd have a matchmaking option. Like with ME3 you can open and close whether it's private or public. This mechanism allowed you to choose the size of your group manually.
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Like ME3 you vote to kick... Not going to spell it out...
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That's no more helpful than picking up people at the tower or v from destinylfg. That is a very inefficient way in finding a quality and like minded group of raiders. Your suggestion hadn't been fleshed out and is amateur at best. Voting to kick people should be a matchmaking default which is needed in regular strikes. There are many problems just due to not having it.
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So ME3's matchmaking feature was amateur huh? Funny, I never had any issues with it. You're making a lot of assumptions that there would be no logic behind the matchmaking model I proposed. What's the issue anyway? If you don't want, or need to use matchmaking, don't use it. Why is having more choices a bad thing? I was pretty sharp in ME3 multiplayer, and often went into, and started Platinum matches with randoms just to challenge myself. I met great people there that I still play with today. Yes, there were total wipes, and the occasional bad egg, but it worked... All I'm suggesting is that Destiny could benefit from a similar model. No-ones asking you to use it.
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I played ME3 extensively even the dlc. That model was amateur and a basic horde style but it worked and was fun for THAT game. Every MP game should have a vote to kick player. Destiny is completely different from that game and raids are completely different from that mode. I'm not going to sit here and outline why more isn't better in this case as I along with other have already gone into great detail about it in other post. Just look through the comments.
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I have plenty of friends who I raid with on a regular basis... I don't [b]need[/b] matchmaking... I just don't see why it's so much of an issue for those against it.
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Edited by Xenomorph: 11/8/2014 10:13:34 PMI think you're missing the point. You don't have to use matchmaking if you don't want to. The current system remains. Matchmaking just augments it. Edit: I'm not going to read through every post to find the minority of posts that are against matchmaking. More posts here are for rather than against. No one is discussing "Horde" mode vs "Raid"... What I'm discussing is the means of connecting players, for Horde/Raid/Slayer/Tiddly Winks... There was nothing wrong with, or "amateur" about ME3's matchmaking. You suggesting so makes it seem as if you didn't use it very much.
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It's not a superiority complex. If I told you that you had to wait by the entrance of the Vault would you do it? Nope... How about if I told you that you needed to do it so as to unlock the next door? Don't believe me? Ahhh... and therein lies the problems with pickup groups. If one player knows info the others don't and they refuse to believe him then the pickup group is going to be unable to progress. A raid team need to rely on each other. Pickup groups have no links to the other players. Don't whinge about not being able to find 5 friends, just look around the forums.... LOADS of players who are interested in making clans work.
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How do you know someone would not listen in a pug? Because that's the only way your argument works? What makes someone more likely to listen just because they've been on your friends list for 5 minutes? Perhaps again because that's the only way your reasoning seems valid. Bungie has done nothing but implement an artificial barrier to gameplay. There is not a justifiable reason for a lack of matchmaking. People who don't want to use it wouldn't have to. People who understand the challenge of a pug would be able to make that choice. Adding someone to your friends list solely for the sake of destiny raids does not somehow make that person a "friend" with voice comms and coordination. It is just overcoming a lazy choice by developers.
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To be honest, if I quickly organise a ragtag group on here what link do I have to them? Why would I believe them any more or any less than any other random? I don't know them, we're just using each other to get loot or experience the raid..
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By the time the group have gone through a few strikes to learn tactics and then gone through a raid or two, that group will begin to bind into friends.... or not. And if not they leave and find one that suits them better. Same thing happens in the Army... how many of a trainee squad know each other? But by the end they are working in coordinated teams... and most are even friends. Fieldcraft.... hmmmmmm... used to love doing fieldcraft.
