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8/10/2014 4:47:14 PM
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So, why would I buy a game that has an incredibly good source of gear, only I can't play it because I don't have enough people, or I'm not "elite" as you suggest? If I don't have access to everything non-DLC in a game, that seems like something that will turn away so many people so fast. Plus, what the -blam!- do you care if a bunch of people you don't know and will never play with have their matchmaking? [b]If you don't like it, you don't have to use it.[/b]
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[quote] [b]If you don't like it, you don't have to use it.[/b] [/quote] Exactly!!! That's why raids just aren't for you. They're available but you have to find people to play with. So, [b]If you don't like it, you don't have to use it.[/b].
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Edited by Blakimus: 8/10/2014 5:46:38 PMI would buy the shit out of that game. This system is what i like to call "you get what you put into it." Kind of like the this weird thing called life. Except, sometimes this is controlled by other people as well, in a great attempt to conquer something tough. Something seemingly impossible. Working by yourself, you impress yourself sometimes, and maybe the random kid running by that just started playing the game. Working together as a team, to beat the odds together, working as one... that is something special. Something that should be reserved for those willing to put their own needs behind them, and in some cases, take one for the team. I may do a little bit of raiding myself, but im so hyped about watching something beautiful happen via twitch or youtube. Don't get me wrong. In no way am i a spectator. Just like many of you, i will be going deep into the vault of glass. White knuckles will be my only exterior anchor from the game, as other than that i will not exist in any other universe than Destiny. Masocist as I may seem, I seek not riches, not fame, not any gun or armor piece. I seek the glory of overcoming the odds. Bungie, i beg of you, for the sake of humanity, for the sake of bringing people together, for the sake of competitiveness, make these raids painful. Make them frustrating. Make them something that makes Halo on legendary look like childs play. Don't do it for us. Don't do it for you. Do it to push the bar. Do it for the legacy.
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Edited by Immense Potato: 8/10/2014 4:57:59 PM[quote]Plus, what the -blam!- do you care if a bunch of people you don't know and will never play with have their matchmaking? [b]If you don't like it, you don't have to use it.[/b][/quote] He explained why he(and others like him) cares if you get your match making: people will complain they can't complete the raid. Then instead of 'gives us match making' threads, there will be 'Nerf Vault of Glass' threads. If Bungie gives raids a match making system they will have made it easier to try to raid. Part of the reason there is no match making system is to prevent the people that aren't ready for raiding, from raiding. If you can't be bothered to get 5 other people together, why do you even want to raid?
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Um.... Because they give you awesome stuff?? And you also wouldn't be affected by complaining because bungie would not nerf raids, it just doesn't make any sense. 5 people are hard to get online at the same time, and especially hard if they live in different time zones. Also, that's a lot of effort. I have about 3 friends that are usually online, only 2 of them and I will get destiny. The matchmaking I want would put 2 fireteams together, so they could go into one party or be seperate and still have some planing and tactics.
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You seriously think that if you can't be bothered to find people to play the raid with regularly that you will be able to get any of the 'awesome stuff' in the raid? You're going to spend hours getting killed over and over again not getting any loot. The first thing you need to even think about starting a raid is 5 other people to play with regularly. And the people that don't have that minimum requirement immediately don't think, 'Maybe I should get some more people to play with?' Instead your first thought is, 'Bungie should find those people for me.' Give Bungie some credit. If they are telling you that you'll only want to raid if you have 5 friends to play with regularly in order to have a chance at success, why aren't you listening to them?
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Boohoo for me if I get killed over and over again, why the -blam!- would you care. This is what I've said to so many people, that it doesn't affect you if you don't use it.
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Edited by Immense Potato: 8/10/2014 5:28:26 PM[quote]Boohoo for me if I get killed over and over again, why the -blam!- would you care. This is what I've said to so many people, that it doesn't affect you if you don't use it.[/quote] Because the easiest part about the Raid is going to be finding those other people to play with. If that's a problem for you, the actual raid is going to be too difficult. You wanted it to be easier to raid, the next step after that is getting Bungie to make it less of a challenge. After all, why have it in the game if you can't handle the difficulty? So again, if finding people to raid with is a problem for you, that should be a hint you shouldn't be raiding. It's step one. Step one is find people to raid with. Go make some friends while leveling up. Every other group mode has match making. Add some people you worked well with to your friends list. Get enough people together and then raid. It's called progression. Take it one step at a time instead of demanding things be done for you.
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Edited by D382H: 8/10/2014 7:33:06 PMI applaud your ignorance... I've played a fair few games that have Raids in them, I have participated in PUG's and organised groups... in my experience... finding 4 other players or 5 other players or 15 other players to take on a raid is difficult because of time zone issues... Guilds can't even organise Raid groups effectively... I'm often perplexed by the groups I've been in because there are people willing and good enough to do the raid but, their speed isn't the same as the rest of the group so they either fall behind or run ahead causing the inevitable "Whipe" scenario. Bottom line: stop being such a 7337157 455H073!!! Let people enjoy the game their way and so what if they want to PUG/Matchmake and Whipe several hundred times as long as they enjoy it? I hate you 7337157 types who think "Yeah I'm -blam!-ing hardcore because I successfully did the most amazing co-ordinated raid with other hardcore assholes!!! I win" See how it feels when someone attacks you for the way you play? not nice is it? But, your "Egomania" can take it right?
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I'm not saying I'm hardcore. I didn't even imply it. I doubt I'll even get into the raiding aspect of Destiny simply because I don't have the time to invest in it. I'm trying to help people understand why there is no matchmaking system for raids. Most people seem to think it'll be a high level strike they should be able to just jump in, grind out a few hours and beat it. They think Bungie is trying to prevent them from participating out of some elitist, 'filthy casual' attitude. They liken a raid in Destiny to ones in other MMOs so we'd have an idea of the challenge involved. Many people that enjoy shooters aren't necessarily going to be the same type to enjoy an MMORPG, so many don't have the background in raids that some do. I'm not trying to be ignorant or elitist, and I'm sorry that it has apparently come off that way. I just want people to understand that raids aren't meant to be the casual undertaking they seem to think they are. If people want a quick, match made challenge then the Nightfall missions are probably more their speed. Raids are designed in a much more different way. They can't be beat in one sitting. Or two. Or ten. It will be weeks before even the most hardcore of Clans are able to complete the Vault of Glass on a regular basis. The first hurdle is getting a regular group together to try. It's been designed that way by Bungie.
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Which is basically saying "thanks for the money, now here's a part of the game you'll never be able to see except in youtube videos and... oh yeah... you have to sit there and watch as a select few manage to obtain the most valuable loot in the game..." That sucks for at least 90-98% of people who really enjoy playing the game, only to find out that the best part is inaccessible to them. STO (I have issues with that game but, have been told to check it out again as it may have improved) resolved this issue very simply... Raids with varied difficulties... i. e. if you are in it for the experience and are time limited you can opt for the Easy setting (still quite challenging) and if you are 7337 then you choose the Hard mode... this has also been done in SW:TOR
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Edited by Kardain: 8/10/2014 6:01:30 PM2 questions 1) How would you vet an individual's ability in a raid? Sure, strike, explore, and whatever other playlist that has matchmaking is one thing. But when it comes to the time that counts, all of that could mean nothing. What you perceived as ability in other playlists could have been nothing more than mindless button mashing. 2) Difficulty aside, why does it have to be 6? A related question, what would happen if 2 people in your pre-made group leave and the remaining 4 decide to continue? Based on currently available information, there is no valid reason aside from difficulty (in itself that is debatable, difficulty is a matter of perception) why a smaller group can't attempt and possibly complete it. If Bungie had said "Hey, there's something in the map that will require all 6 players to be present. We're not going to say what or where, but you'll know it when you see it" the requirement makes sense. But, unless I missed something, they haven't.
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[quote]A related question, what would happen if 2 people in your pre-made group leave and the remaining 4 decide to continue? [/quote] These people against MM seem to believe that it's impossible for a pre made group to have any early leavers. I'm for MM but whether I was in a pre made group OR a MM group, if my son suddenly woke in the night he takes priority over a game and I'm sure anyone else with a family or similar situations would be the same
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1) By playing with them. During strikes, do they listen to feedback? Do they follow instructions? Are they quick to anger? Do they know when they should attempt a revive? Do they know how to take down special enemies? Are they constantly dying by standing in the wrong spot? Does their gear and ability tree make sense? Do they have the proper gear? 2) Bungie made it so that you need 6 people to even enter a Raid. Take the hint. It's designed for 6 people. Unless it takes you to orbit when someone drops out, you probably [i]can[/i] attempt to continue the raid. But if my experiences with other Raids are any indicator that's a recipe for disaster. Your damage output drops 1/6th with one less guardian. That could very well mean you won't be able to kill mobs fast enough.
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Why are you on these forums when you said that you don't have the time for them
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Huh? I said I likely wouldn't get into raiding due to the time investment required.
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Edited by Kardain: 8/10/2014 6:42:51 PMSo your answer to 1, could the same not be achieved with matchmaking? And for number 2, the only "hint" is an arbitrary value, speculation, and some PR nonsense. The remainder is based on your own observation, as again, difficulty can be debated. What one person finds difficult another may not.
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[quote]So your answer to 1, could the same not be achieved with matchmaking?[/quote] No. The investment in time is huge. I'm not sure anyone that hasn't raided in other titles will understand just how much time you will sink into preparing yourself to even attempt to raid. Not counting the time spent learning the raid itself. Hundreds of hours. [quote] And for number 2, the only "hint" is an arbitrary value and some PR nonsense. The remainder is based on your own observation, as again, difficulty can be debated. What one person finds difficult another may not.[/quote] They brought in an elite guild to attempt the Vault of Glass. They invested 16 hours into it before they gave up trying to complete it. Again, unless you've experienced endgame progression in a game before, you can't begin to guess how much of a challenge raiding will be. I'm basing my assumption of difficulty on what Bungie has told us and my previous experience with raids in other titles. It's the final challenge of the vanilla game. It requires 6 people to attempt. You need to be at least level 25 to attempt it. You will need to be several levels higher than that to complete it as the challenge level increases the more you complete it. This is what Bungie has told us. It's not my opinion or speculation. It's straight from their mouths.
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[quote] No. The investment in time is huge. I'm not sure anyone that hasn't raided in other titles will understand just how much time you will sink into preparing yourself to even attempt to raid. Not counting the time spent learning the raid itself. Hundreds of hours. [/quote] That doesn't answer my question. I wasn't asking how to prepare myself for a raid, I asked if vetting someone else could be achieved with matchmaking. [quote] They brought in an elite guild to attempt the Vault of Glass. They invested 16 hours into it before they gave up trying to complete it. [/quote] Yay. This again... Not a valid sample size. [quote]It requires 6 people to attempt [/quote] You evaded addressing why it has to be 6 by using difficulty as a crutch. So, I'll rephrase my question: if difficulty were not a concern, why 6 players?
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Edited by Immense Potato: 8/10/2014 7:18:14 PMDude. I'm not evading anything. And you're not listening to the points I'm making. The 'vetting process' is a time consuming process. You don't want to have to 'vet' someone [i]during[/i] a raid. You vet them prior to the raid. In the time you spend getting yourself ready to raid. The weeks of prep time beforehand. Bungie told us we can't enter a raid without 6 people. It's a requirement. I don't know what would happen if someone left during a raid. I don't know if there are elements at play that require 6 people. I just know that Bungie told us that you can't enter the raid without 6. Of course one top guild is a tiny sample size. The point of it is to give you an idea of the challenge involved. Same reason they called it a 'Raid'. So anyone that has experience with Raids could extrapolate from their personal experience.
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[quote]Dude. I'm not evading anything. And you're not listening to the points I'm making. [/quote] I read your points, found them irrelevant to my question, so chose not to address them further. That and I use the app exclusively, so it's a pain to cut/cancel/reply/paste. [quote] The 'vetting process' is a time consuming process. You don't want to have to 'vet' someone [i]during[/i] a raid. You vet them prior to the raid. In the time you spend getting yourself ready to raid. The weeks of prep time beforehand. [/quote] Time consuming? Nah, I can accurately gauge someone in 5 minutes or less. How I spend time beforehand getting myself prepped is not relevant to the question, nor are the minimum level/gear requirements. [quote] Bungie told us we can't enter a raid without 6 people. It's a requirement. I don't know what would happen if someone left during a raid. I don't know if there are elements at play that require 6 people. I just know that Bungie told us that you can't enter the raid without 6.[/quote] Now that answers the question. If all you said was "I don't know" from the beginning, I would have accepted that answer.
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When have I ever said I don't like a challenge? Stop putting words in my mouth, asshole. And yes, it is going to be too hard for me, but it's supposed to be. It will be too hard for everyone
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Edited by TargetPractice86: 8/10/2014 5:43:59 PM[quote] 5 people are hard to get online at the same time, and especially hard if they live in different time zones. Also, that's a lot of effort. [/quote] You just stated it's "a lot of effort" to get 5 people together. So you said you like a challenge but see it as a lot of work to experience that challenge. As the op said. Maybe raids are not for you. Your friends list is not limited to only people you know now. While playing destiny make a little effort to make some destiny friends. When I raided in other games I knew 0 of the people I raided with in real life. I met them and did stuff with them in game. Through those experiences I was blessed enough for them to invite me to raid. So if you not afraid of "challenge" as you say. Sounds like your only road block to raids in destiny is a little effort to make new friends.
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[quote]When have I ever said I don't like a challenge? Stop putting words in my mouth, asshole. And yes, it is going to be too hard for me, but it's supposed to be. It will be too hard for everyone[/quote] Woah, chill man. I didn't say you don't like a challenge. I said you're complaining that finding people to play with is too hard. The finding people to play with part will be the easiest part of raid. Literally. And it's too hard for you. You want Bungie to do it for you. That should be making you think to yourself that maybe you shouldn't be raiding if finding the people to play with is something you're not willing to do. I'm not being an asshole man. I'm trying to explain to you why Bungie isn't putting a match making system in for the raid.
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I'm not saying it's too hard it's just extremely annoying, I could organize everyone to get on a raid at one time, or I could just invite everyone that's online, then fill the empty spaces with randoms. Much easier
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[quote]Much easier[/quote] ...you really aren't listening to what I've been saying are you? That's exactly my point. The first step is getting a group to raid. The easiest step. You want it to be easier. You'd rather fail at the actual raiding part, as long as the finding a group part is easier?
