If they hadn't even announced Raids, would you have said you weren't getting your money's worth? With Explore, Story, Crucible, Strikes, and Nightfall can you honestly say you don't think you're getting 60 dollars worth of content? And that's only using one character. Can you imagine leveling all 3 classes and doing all of those activities? I'll bet there's well over 60-80 hours worth of content right there. Raids completely excluded.

personally what if is never a good deciding factor in any argument. Lets play fact of the matter instead =] fact of the matter is they announced raids. Fact of the matter is Bungie is a company set out to please the majority of their audience not just a few people. Fact of the matter is if they hadn't announced raids we wouldn't be having this conversation, the majority of the forums wouldn't feel so neglected, and since raids are announced it should be fair for everyone to get a chance to experiene from the busy working family man to the after gym class high school kid. Not everyone has a set schedule and it's not possible for everyone to locate 6 people to play with which will result in people searching the tower for people to raid with which seems to me like forced matchmaking just to muster up people to experience it. Why not just give us the option to matchmake? note option like mass effect 3 if you had the people you did a private game with just your friends if you didn't have the people you matchmade. I think Bungie should implement mm into raids and I think since the majority of their fanbase is upset they will in time.

It was the announcement of restricted access that irks people. The timing is irrelevant, people don't like finding out that content they're paying for is restricted to them. They don't like being dictated to either. It's a really simple concept. Unless your an Apple fan, then you probably enjoy being told how and when to use products you've purchased.

Are you also upset that you can't play the game on PC and that it's not available until 9/9? Because those are also limitations that they set on being told How to use their content and When you can use the product you're purchasing. These "restrictions" as you refer to them are in many games. You have to attain a certain Key to progress in the game. You have to have killed X boss to move on to the next boss. This is a different type, but it's still a "restriction" nonetheless. It makes you take 5 people with you. It's not like they've said "If your name has more than 6 characters in it, you will not be allowed to raid". Everyone is allowed. It's a matter of effort to form a team that is the restriction, if you consider it one. It comes down to what are you willing to do to enter the raid. If forming a group with 5 other people is too much, then Bungie has determined that the raid will require more effort than you're willing to give. That's not me saying it, it's Bungie by putting that small, easily-toppled wall in place.

You, like Bungie, completely misunderstand console owners and why consoles are purchased in the first place. It's nice to see that these forums are made up of the same 20 people, commenting on everything lol. It might be a ten year game but it'll only have 5% of its player base attached. Then you all can feel real special about how hardcore you are. And not one of you can explain how searching a web page for players is any different from matchmaking. You're really reaching in those counter arguments btw. I could argue the benefits of mm with Borderlands and it's Raid Bosses but I won't. You're too caught up in your WoW mentality. Enjoy being elite. Good luck to bungie covering that 500 million production cost catering to the 1%.

Whew, you're my favorite kind of poster. I enjoy this. [quote]You, like Bungie[/quote] Mmm. I'm flattered, but I don't put myself up there with people who created the Halo and now Destiny IPs. They're an extremely creative and successful company to be where they are right now. If anything, I think dismissing them before seeing what they have in store is a bit presumptuous. My opinion though. [quote]It might be a ten year game but it'll only have 5% of its player base attached. Then you all can feel real special about how hardcore you are. [/quote] And it very well can be a 10 year game. If you would like, we can compare longevity to the current 10+ year game that's been very successful, World of Warcraft. Now, what you're saying is that Destiny is not going to make a 10 year game with what they currently have. I agree wholeheartedly! I don't think World of Warcraft would still be around if they still only had Vanilla World of Warcraft with 1 40 man raid that didn't have any kind of matchmaking anywhere in their game. But, they added expansions (one that completely changed the graphics and upped them for newer PCs) and changed the ways their game worked to continue being a money making endeavor for the company. To assume Destiny will stay the way it is and not gain DLCs over the years, or evolve and change as time goes by, would be silly. But yes, Destiny as it is right now can't last 10 years. But can the IP if they keep adding to it and evolving it with the daily evolving game industry? Absolutely. While keeping more than a measly 5% of players ;). [quote]And not one of you can explain how searching a web page for players is any different from matchmaking.[/quote] I'll gladly field that. Lets say you're searching the forums for someone to raid with, and you see 2 posts. Lets compare: Example 1- hay guys im a awesum playr. i want to raid who wnts to fk up dat raid wit me add me xXNEWBKILLERXx Example 2- Hey everyone. I'm a 28 year old father of 1. I have a mic and can play in the evenings after 8pm CST after I put the little one down, just looking for someone to raid with when I'm free. Feel free to add me: TreysDad1990 Now, which would you prefer to have in your group? Who do you think is more likely to stay in your group? Which of those 2 do you think would be more concerned with the group succeeding than just his own gain? Personally, I'd pick Example 2. If you go MM, you could get 3 Example 1s or even 1. Or worse. I'm not very good at imitating idiocy, and my spell check was going crazy or I would've gone farther lol. That's just one example of why searching on the forums can prove to be better than MM. You said there were 0. I could keep going, but lets move on! [quote]I could argue the benefits of mm with Borderlands and it's Raid Bosses but I won't. You're too caught up in your WoW mentality. [/quote] I actually spent hundreds of hours (if you combine my Borderlands 1 and Borderlands 2 time together) in Pandora, and loved it. I joined an online forum of people who also played, and that was some of my most fun times in Pandora. A big difference between this and Borderlands is the lack of glitched/duped weapons since Destiny is servers that Bungie runs. In Borderlands 1, pretty much all the bosses were Find Weak Spot, Shoot Weak Spot til Dead, Collect Loot. Can you agree? In Borderlands 2 they ramped up the variety and need to work together. I honestly hated farming Seraph Crystals with randoms. Why? Either they duped and glitched weapons to cheat and kill the boss that way. Or we would lose and they would yell at me like it's all my fault. Although I could run with my group (the clan I found online) and we would rock. Those were my most fun times. And no, I didn't meet them in game. I went online in search of them and found them on the Borderlands forums. Great group of people! I'll be playing Destiny with a few of them I'm sure :). [quote]Enjoy being elite. Good luck to bungie covering that 500 million production cost catering to the 1%.[/quote] I appreciate you classifying me as elite, but I don't think I fit that bill anymore. I used to hardcore raid in WoW, and I played MT for years. Then I switched to a raid healer. Back then, I would've considered myself to be an elite player, playing in some of the top guilds on the server I chose to be on. Those were some incredibly fun times! But, I don't have the time to dedicate to be that kind of player anymore. I think Destiny is a great middle ground between having to farm that equipment necessary and having to grind, and having the ability to go raid with friends and beat them in a sit down FPS action game style. I honestly can't wait to see what they throw at me. So, I dare you, try to be positive about Destiny. Find the good things and focus on them. Try to make the best of your game, instead of focusing so hard on the few things you may dislike. Have a little faith in people who are well compensated to make a game consumers will enjoy that they will deliver :) they have in the past! Thanks for the calm discussion on the topic! Edit: Typo

Man you're long winded and opinionated. No real facts but I respect your opinion without sharing it. Like I said and you just proved: WoW mindset. I plan on purchasing Destiny but I think they've set themselves up for failure. Don't really care, I don't take gaming that seriously. Just trying to help you people understand the customer blowback that will likely occur. Good day sir.

I wish you had read my post, because judging by your response, you might've skimmed it but didn't really read it. I wanted to respect your post with something that I took time with to carefully explain why I felt differently. There are facts in there, not just opinion, but if you're going to ignore it that's fine, totally up to you. Although I did show you my opinion on comparing it to Borderlands and WoW. I've played Borderlands the past 3 years. My WoW years were before that. Meaning it's been a long time since I've been an MMO player, and I'm more based out of Borderlands than WoW now. "You people". What do you mean by "you people"? People that share my opinion? If you've seen my other posts on matchmaking you'll see I've actually supported it after the raid is on farm status and it's common knowledge on how to beat it. But hey, you do you. Ignore what you want :D Good day.

Yeah... Unfortunately I did read that wall of text. You had a valid point about the game evolving and becoming what they envisioned. I just don't see it being supported that long when they lock out a large player base at the start. PC is whole different landscape. I really don't mean to be disrespectful but it's honestly mind boggling why "you people" (adamant about friending, clans, etc) are so vehemently opposed to mm when you'd never use it anyways. I'm not ignoring you, I'm tired of arguing the point and hearing opinions about raids and clans and whatever. It's a bad business move when you need to move 15million+ copies just to break even. Anyways, it's been interesting. Good day.