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Edited by PsykoticDrummer: 8/10/2014 7:40:42 PM
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Raids: What you need to know

[b][u]What a raid IS[/u][/b] - Very difficult - demands strong teamwork and communication - an investment - extremely time consuming - requires extreme attention and focus - sometimes can be less fun than work [b][u]What a raid IS NOT[/u][/b] - Short - Easy to clear - soloable - carryable (meaning a couple good players can't carry a whole team through) - Something to decide to do on a whim - relaxing What Matchmaking encourages: - Lone wolf mindset - individual focus on individual gain - carrying - Leaving out of frustration or boredom Why Raids should not be matchmade: 10% of the time, maybe, you'll be able to clear a raid without advanced planning. Raids demand thought, planning, strategies, roles to play, extreme focus, and a LOT of time. Raids are not something you decide to do on a saturday because you have nothing else to do. Raids are something that you plan with other people in advance, planning out a strategy, assigning roles, and making sure everyone can communicate clearly. What matchmade raids eventually leads to: Matchmade players complaining about the difficulty of the raid because they tried X number of times and never cleared it. By the nature of matchmaking, there will be far more matchmade raids than there are normal, planned raids. Bungie sees this as the majority of their audience. Bungie decides to nerf raids to satisfy the majority. Raids stop being challenging for who they were designed for, and eliminate the most challenging, hardcore component of the game. Destiny loses replay value, more players will stop playing after the level cap because Raids do not challenge them anymore. If you want Raid matchmaking, that means that you want to play a raid without planning, without a strategy, without knowing who you're playing with beforehand, and out for personal gain. If this is you, you are not raid material. You do not belong in raids, you should not be allowed to raid. Raids are high-level endgame content designed for the players looking for an extreme challenge, not of individual skill, but of teamwork. If K/D is the most important thing to you, you are not raid material. If you're just looking for a few laughs and a good time, you are not raid material. If you think you can carry your team through a raid, you are not raid material. If you're a team player and focused, you ARE raid material. If you're serious about clearing the raid and have hours to spend, you ARE raid material. If you can play a role and stick to what you need to do, you ARE raid material. If you are a casual gamer, raids were not designed for you. That's a simple truth. Stop assuming everything in the game was designed just for you. "There's something in Destiny for everyone" [b]IS NOT[/b] "everything in Destiny is accessible to everyone" What people are complaining about would be like if you complained that Recon wasn't immediately available to everyone in Halo 3 (which many of you actually did). Recon was something to be proud of having, and not just anyone could get it. The same thing applies here. Raids are not things that anyone can complete: they're reserved for those with the perseverance to conquer them. They require a lot of effort, which translates in to why they require you to form a team on your own before going in to one. If you can't be bothered to seek out other players looking to do a raid properly, then by all rights, raids demand more effort than you're willing to put in.
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  • Raids: Why should you care if matchmaking is implemented? If you already have group why are you so friggin worried about it? All of the arguments for no matchmaking are flawed at a basic level.
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    • Edited by Mandingo: 8/10/2014 9:30:00 PM
      But you never played the game Developers : the game is hard Hardcore gamer : that's it ? where is the hard part ?
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      • I think the bottom on all this MM bullshit is BUNGIE doesn't want MM in raids. They've come out and said it, everybody complaining for or against is just wasting their breath. Raids WILL NOT have MM at launch. This may change down the line, who knows. But right now that's just how it is.
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        • Edited by DEZARATH: 8/10/2014 10:16:42 PM
          That's really interesting. Have you ever played the Chinese fortune cookie game? It's the one where you read your fortune and then say " In Bed." at the end of it. Well you can apply the same to every time you said Raid by just changing it out to PVP. Surprisingly when loosely applied another game mode in Destiny could be saved.
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        • Wallotext
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        • The biggest complaint.. "I won't have access to ALL of the gear if I can't raid" .. This is a problem with the younger generation.. They all feel self entitled to everything. What would be the point in top-tier gear if EVERYONE was just given it? There would be no distinction between players.. I personally, would love to raid for rare gear and go back to the tower and rub it in your softcore faces.. Bungie agrees.. Remember they want players to be jealous of other players. Well mission accomplished Bungie and the game isn't even out yet lol Go ahead and chew my head off ladies and gents :)
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          • Edited by DawnBlue: 8/11/2014 3:32:08 AM
            Naah, you don't know anything about Destiny raids, just another MMORPG elitist If Destiny's raids are not fun, then the game will have failed so miserably you will regret buying it.
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          • I feel Bungie will eventually give in to a complaining community and allow a MM option for raids. Those match made teams may fail horribly; they may not. Who knows? Honestly who really cares. Those of us serious about it already have a dedicated fire team put together and ready to put in the time required to train together and fine tune our strengths and work as a team. If that's truly what it takes, eventually the people wanting MM will get a clue. Let them try it. Let them fail. Let them learn.
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          • Edited by Honorable Sniper: 8/11/2014 6:42:24 AM
            I like this thread I disagree with "you should not be allowed to raid", but.. details details If you want serious players, who will take most aspects of the game seriously, have years of experience playing on teams, have all the qualities to be a strong raid teammate and you want to join a clan filled with people looking for the same thing, maybe join our clan. http://www.bungie.net/en/Clan/Forum/129938 Xbox One, North America
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            • No matchmaking? Fine. But then there needs to be a better way to get a group together IN-GAME. It's as simple as a typical MMO group finder, or just better, more convenient methods of communication. Thats all I ask. I don't wanna have to deal with the uncertainty and inconvenience of putting a group together outside of the game. I mean it's not even like a 25-man raid that requires extensive effort. It's 6 people, an in-game group finder would be so easy
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              • [b]Thank you for clearing this up, Raids [u]DO[/u] require lots of strategy to successfully play im sure many other players will appreciate this post[/b] [b]Feel free to add on psn: caldwellz[/b]
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              • I wonder, for all the people who are complaining on this thread...I wonder if the OP has more Likes or Dislikes? I agree with you whole heartedly. This almost feels like it was written by a staffer at bungie who's job it is to read the forums and post officially, but couldn't post officially because if the "bungie" tag (a la DeeJ) popped up under something like this, it would be a PR nightmare. Kudos, bro. I've been trying to state the same thing over and over, in different words, but you did so eloquently and succinctly.
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              • Dude u suck at this game then. Yes raids take awhile and a little more difficult,but u couldn't beat it? I beat it with a full fireteam of 3 and it was harder and we died more but it was so long. But it's worth it because at the end u get so much co and so many different engrams and armor and weapons and you get a lot of glimmer.
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                • Im a hard core gamer. But I realize that others dont play 4- 10 hr at a time like I can..I do most of my fighting with 3 different players but not normally at same times....am I raid ready but dont have 5 hard core gamers to plsy with...the option to go into a raid with less then 6 should be an option. And matchmaking also..... maybe I can't beat it but ill try like hell and have a lot of fun doing it. Match making could help to find that perfect 6 player team to actually complete it.
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                  • Its sad u have to explain it this deep to ignorant people. I hope one day they add MM so ppl can just shutup. They will never clear it with MM but maybey find other decent players to party up with after a raid fail.
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                    • Good post man go check my last one it's called READ THIS: a solution to raid matchmaking
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                    • Edited by Thumper0069: 8/11/2014 7:40:26 PM
                      Hell yeah!!!! Agree 100% Your going to make friends and find good players that work well with you during strike missions. I mean the strike mission in beta with some randoms went well while others.....not so much. I would hand pick my players vs doing a random anyday. I did the beta strike mission with randoms and it took probably 30 - 40 minutes. I did the strike mission quite a bit and when I did the mission with friends or a good cordinated group it was about 15 - 20 minutes. I am glad bungie is not allowing MM for raids, a hand picked group that cordinates with each other is a requirement. I want to show off the sweet loot from raid drops and not just get it handed to me. As stated already there are going to be roles that need to be filled. Perfect example, your going up against a boss and only have 1 titan. The class is striker and thats the only way he likes to play, but the problem with that is the boss has an attack that maybe blows up the entire room killing everyone.....unless of course if you have a defender that can use his special to protect the group. Now you have to argue that point and have a titan that does not want to play that way because maybe he does less damage (rambo players that only care about themselves). Each player will have a responsibility in the raid and it is important that the people playing those roles know what they are doing because if they dont it can cause the whole team to die. As I have played games with raid mechanics before and there ususally is a concept where there is a raid wiping attacks and instant kills.
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                    • You sir have a head on your shoulders, I agree with everything you have said. I only wish others could see why in the long run match made raids would be a bad idea. 07
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                    • Edited by OneLove: 8/11/2014 8:48:56 PM
                      Agreed. But on another thread I made a comment attempting to find a middle ground that would still let the hardcore gamers have their hardcore raids while also being more inclusive. Would love to hear what you think. http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/67552837
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                    • Edited by Muertoweirdo: 8/11/2014 9:11:20 PM
                      You're an idiot. Not to mention pompous. Where do you think all those bad players are going to go if they don't have matchmaking and people willing to deal with them . Is an elitist prick like you who's way far ahead of them going to help them to do the raids in your clan are you even going to let them in your clan? I'm talking about new people new to the raids. Let's say after two more raids come out and you don't want to do that raid anymore. I succeeded in much end game material via communication and working with people even when they suck. You teach them they learn to get better. Be prepared to fail in raids. Someone like me who is a good player and still believes in matchmaking is willing to take the time out to communicate with a bunch of randoms. You don't want that your an elitist; you don't want them even in your game, cause it's yours right? Matchmaking doesn't get things on nerfed people complaining gets things nerfed. And people are going to complain because they won't have people to help them. Clans will fill up and the next day, once people are not at the same point anymore that clan will be empty. Then you have to find a new one and do it all over again over and over.
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                      • You listed a bunch of reasons why Raids suck and don't sound fun. It shouldn't feel like work. It should be fun. Instead of locking content out from people who may not be as skilled or who don't have friends the matchmaking SHOULD be there. It's a stupid idea to not include it. It doesn't harm the game in any way. Except the idiot elitists who think it does. Content shouldn't be locked out for people who can't get a group. And a easier mode with lesser rewards should be available for casual gamers or people who want to group with randoms. league of legends is the best example. It has random matchmaking and requires intense communication and teamwork. Matchmaking doesn't harm it.
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                        • Yeah it's crazy tht I assume that everything in the 60 dollar game I PAY FOR should be designed for me... Crazy.
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                          • explain to me what possible roles could be assigned in destiny? you have three classes all with very similar powers. i think all the major mmo players will be very disappointed in the destiny raids.
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                            • I agree 100%
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                            • I would play them, but I won't have 6 friends who are getting the game
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                              • It's kinda hard to get a raid team without proximity chat in game... right? So how you gonna put a team together if you don't know anyone, especially if you're on a next Gen console? I doubt you will message each individual person In game asking if they wanna do a raid cause honestly by the time youre done messaging everyone, you'll probably be to tired to raid. So unless bungie puts in chat I'm all for matchmaking for raids cause I do not want to message everyone especially if they are randoms. With possibly no mics
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