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Feedback and suggestions for Destiny.

Edited by PsykoticDrummer: 8/10/2014 7:40:42 PM
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Raids: What you need to know

[b][u]What a raid IS[/u][/b] - Very difficult - demands strong teamwork and communication - an investment - extremely time consuming - requires extreme attention and focus - sometimes can be less fun than work [b][u]What a raid IS NOT[/u][/b] - Short - Easy to clear - soloable - carryable (meaning a couple good players can't carry a whole team through) - Something to decide to do on a whim - relaxing What Matchmaking encourages: - Lone wolf mindset - individual focus on individual gain - carrying - Leaving out of frustration or boredom Why Raids should not be matchmade: 10% of the time, maybe, you'll be able to clear a raid without advanced planning. Raids demand thought, planning, strategies, roles to play, extreme focus, and a LOT of time. Raids are not something you decide to do on a saturday because you have nothing else to do. Raids are something that you plan with other people in advance, planning out a strategy, assigning roles, and making sure everyone can communicate clearly. What matchmade raids eventually leads to: Matchmade players complaining about the difficulty of the raid because they tried X number of times and never cleared it. By the nature of matchmaking, there will be far more matchmade raids than there are normal, planned raids. Bungie sees this as the majority of their audience. Bungie decides to nerf raids to satisfy the majority. Raids stop being challenging for who they were designed for, and eliminate the most challenging, hardcore component of the game. Destiny loses replay value, more players will stop playing after the level cap because Raids do not challenge them anymore. If you want Raid matchmaking, that means that you want to play a raid without planning, without a strategy, without knowing who you're playing with beforehand, and out for personal gain. If this is you, you are not raid material. You do not belong in raids, you should not be allowed to raid. Raids are high-level endgame content designed for the players looking for an extreme challenge, not of individual skill, but of teamwork. If K/D is the most important thing to you, you are not raid material. If you're just looking for a few laughs and a good time, you are not raid material. If you think you can carry your team through a raid, you are not raid material. If you're a team player and focused, you ARE raid material. If you're serious about clearing the raid and have hours to spend, you ARE raid material. If you can play a role and stick to what you need to do, you ARE raid material. If you are a casual gamer, raids were not designed for you. That's a simple truth. Stop assuming everything in the game was designed just for you. "There's something in Destiny for everyone" [b]IS NOT[/b] "everything in Destiny is accessible to everyone" What people are complaining about would be like if you complained that Recon wasn't immediately available to everyone in Halo 3 (which many of you actually did). Recon was something to be proud of having, and not just anyone could get it. The same thing applies here. Raids are not things that anyone can complete: they're reserved for those with the perseverance to conquer them. They require a lot of effort, which translates in to why they require you to form a team on your own before going in to one. If you can't be bothered to seek out other players looking to do a raid properly, then by all rights, raids demand more effort than you're willing to put in.
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  • Jus one thing.. 10% chance to clear a raid on a random party? Edit that in 0%. Don't give false hope to have a fair shot at it. It's downright impossible to be faced with raid's puzzles and figure them out and beat them that easily
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    • Wow. We have ourselves an expert. So, just how much firsthand Destiny raid experience do you have? Oh, and before you go and mention other games besides Destiny, I don't care about them.
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      • The thing with Raids in a New Game nobody knows what to expect so matchmaking or not if u go in for the first time u probably fail. but i hope u learn from your mistakes. Anyone who knows the Comic Storm The Last Fighter, google it in there Storm together with a group of Fighters went into a unknown alien ship but it was full of Traps so it came to good thinking and following order to get to the Tower/Bridge if not u did DIE. i am also not a Raid expert i did do some Raid/strikefoce in City of Heroes and there u also had to do different task. and we faild a lot but like in Dark Souls where u die a lot the quitters wil never make it and the hardheaded persevere make it at the end. So what i am saying everyone is a casuall Raider at the beginning in Destiny We have to give it some time i am 100% sure that after some weeks there will be people wo made it and getting good in it and some of them are going to help others by waiting at the Start point where u get the Raid quest or at the entrance of the Raid (not sure how we do get the Raid in Destiny) but u get my point. but at the moment where other Destiny Raid Experts are offering there help to others the Casual Players are able to do Raids also. as long as they follow strickt rules. Also there will come playtroughs on yourtube after some time i am sure of it. so don't worry anyone will be able to do it at some point.
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      • Raids need to be made so everyone who payed for Destiny can achieve the same items and gear, no matter how much time you have to play. Bungie made a game for everyone who bought Destiny, right???????
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        • A very sad elitist attitude !!! Matchmaking is a must for every mode . If you don't need it then don't use it and stop moaning about people who can't get a group together!!! Raids in Destiny are hard and Bungie have said so many times and they offer the best loot. Denying people the chance to play for these items is wrong. I've meet some of the best, most hardcore players on the matchmaking lists of Borderlands 2 over the years and had great fun killing raid boss after raid boss, so your argument about people on these lists not being up for the challenge just doesn't stand up!!
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          • Don't like it don't use it. We also have no confirmed hard facts on raids. Yes they've said they're super duper hard but that may be an exaggeration, a marketing tactic.
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            • all is accessible to everyone match making will not effect you or me if they put it in. also only role in the raid is dps, and you can have fun doing them.
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            • "If you're just looking for a few laughs and a good time, you are not raid material." reading your story i think that at the end of the Raid i will here you Yell 'I DID IT' but that is not the same as 'I did it and had a good time doing it.' Destiny should be a game with real challenges, that not everyone will or can do. but for all it is a game were all the players should have a good time with each other, and have some good laughs. and we still have to see how difficult a raid for a FPS game is comparing it too other games with raids in it.
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              • Most of us just want our moneys worth of the game tbh. Not all of us can plan and muster up a make shift group because were not in high school anymore. I mean yeah joining a clan ups your chances to have raids but clanmates will want to cruicible up, complete their bounties and do story which leaves you scrounging for raid partners. Why make a game component only a 3rd of your audience is even going to experience? Personally I see mm in the future when the precious replay value you mention is plummeting because it became repetitive to those few it caters to.
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                • I am pretty sure Bungie thought about this subject for a long time. If they decided no MM, I am pretty sure they have a very good reason for it. It's one Raid, we have MM for Strikes, the Nightfall missions. Does anyone really see a group of randoms completing a 3 hour raid? If your lucky 1 or 2 have a mic on.
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                  • It's good Bungie was being inclusive by giving the unemployed, the agrophobic and the socially incompetent a little bit of the game all to themselves XD
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                    • You need to ground your thinking in some reality. You're only hurting the games longevity with this attitude. Matchmaking would never affect you. As far as people whining about "Nerfing" Raids, please remember that most players will not even visit the forums. They might get a bump from the whole clan BS but the vast majority of people could care less. You also seem to forget that many people are still moving onto new consoles, some people switching console brand for the first time in 8 years. This is already a problem for a lot of people. Then there's the fact that, after almost a year of no AAA games being released, they're suddenly flooding the market this fall/winter meaning the player base will drop further as people move on to other games. That's the thing you really need to understand here: The amount of people playing Raids at the beginning is only a portion of the people who bought the game. The overall number will drop once the average buyer learns of the restrictions to even access the mode. The player base will drop even further once the other titles begin to drop. It's almost comical to think about what it will look like when games like the Division start to populate the market. The point here is the player base is only going to go down, not up. Restricting access to your game at the start is a bad business move if you want it to have longevity and continued support. Players WILL move onto other games that allow them to play the way they want, with the friends they have. It's absurd to think Luke Smith is the end all Emperor of Fun Gameplay Design and that only playing it his way (or yours) is fun and rewarding. Given Destiny's lofty goal of "a 10 year game" and Luke Smith's "We hope the gear is what keeps you coming back to Raids", restricting access in any way flies in the face of these two statements. It really doesn't matter to me, simply because there are tons of great games on the horizon and if Bungie decides to screw over longtime fans (Marathon on Mac) by restricting access to paid content, I'll move my money and support elsewhere. A lot of people will. And if you and Bungie are happy with only the "hardest of the hardcore" playing the game, then that's great. Maybe they always intended it to be a 10 year game for a small group instead of everyone who's interested in it. The only thing its doing at the moment is alienating long time fans of the company.
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                      • 3
                        ands2
                        ands2

                        Randal is too Vandalous - old

                        So, why would I buy a game that has an incredibly good source of gear, only I can't play it because I don't have enough people, or I'm not "elite" as you suggest? If I don't have access to everything non-DLC in a game, that seems like something that will turn away so many people so fast. Plus, what the -blam!- do you care if a bunch of people you don't know and will never play with have their matchmaking? [b]If you don't like it, you don't have to use it.[/b]
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                        • I really don't see how difficult these raids can be with only 6 players in a game with such limited mechanics. Shoot the enemies till they die; maybe shoot different body parts with different elemental weapons being the most complex mechanic which is not complex at all.
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                          • For everyone saying 'just don't use the match making for raids. It won't hurt you if they add it.' I'm sorry but then the forums will be rife with 'Nerf Vault of Glass' threads instead. And the they'll make the Vault of Glass easier to make the same people happy that wanted the match making system. If finding 5 other people to play with is too difficult for you, why do you want to play the hardest thing in the game? [b][i]The developer is trying to prevent you from getting discouraged by forcing you to be prepared for the difficulty of the challenge they've created and half the people are whining that it'll be too difficult to find people to play with. Seriously. If it'll be difficult for you to find people to Raid with, then the first step for preparing for the Raid is to find people to Raid with. [/i][/b]
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                            • QFT nice post. WoW is a prime example of what you described
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                            • I LOVE YOU!!!'
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                            • Edited by Logos: 8/10/2014 7:05:03 PM
                              I'm confused. If matchmaking is added, then raids will be nerfed. This is a constant theme I've been seeing in a lot of posts. I just don't understand it. So if Bungie does not add matchmaking, then does that mean raids will not be nerfed? No. Also, I'm no expert at MMOs - although I have played quite a few - but can someone give me some examples where matchmaking has led to nerfed raids? Finally, I just want to point out that the OP has made a lot of absolute statements that just aren't true.
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                              • I agree only because Bungie intended to have no MM for a reason and that reason is teamwork. Bungie should stick to their guns in this.
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                              • Keep in mind that this is a first person shooter. Bullet sponges everywhere. I can't wait for someone to solo this because all this hype is blinding everyone. I want to see gameplay of this raid. They have small clips, but I want to see it all not 3-5 seconds.
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                                • Ur kinda taking this too seriously, if u don't want to do match made raids, fill your fireteam with your friends, and then queue for a raid. However, I do believe that in order to queue for a raid, you need to be a certain skill level for that raid, and mics have to be on, and you cannot be in a chat party, meaning you have to talk to your fireteam in that raid.
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                                  • Well said
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                                  • I think I can carry my team and I am raid material
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                                  • That's an awful lot of assumptions. First off, you're comparing a raid in a FPS, one YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED, to raids in MMOs. That's beyond stupid. Destiny doesn't have roles. Everyone's goal is to kill everything. MMO raids require planning because you need a tank, off tank, at least two healers, and about 8 DPS for each group, and usually you have multiple groups. There are clear, distinct roles that need to be filled. In Destiny, everyone can fit every role. No planning required until you get to the part where people have to actually do stuff. "What matchmade raids eventually leads to: Matchmade players complaining about the difficulty of the raid because they tried X number of times and never cleared it. By the nature of matchmaking, there will be far more matchmade raids than there are normal, planned raids. Bungie sees this as the majority of their audience. Bungie decides to nerf raids to satisfy the majority. Raids stop being challenging for who they were designed for, and eliminate the most challenging, hardcore component of the game. Destiny loses replay value, more players will stop playing after the level cap because Raids do not challenge them anymore." 1. Let them. I have no problem with raid difficulty just because I can't complete it, only if it's truly imbalanced. Eventually I'll find a good MM group and we'll finish. 2. Well yeah, THAT'S THE POINT. 3. Because they are. They are the VAST MAJORITY of their players. To alienate them makes no sense from a design or business perspective. If people can't play raids, they won't buy raid DLC. This means both Bungie and Activision lose money, something neither is comfortable with. 4. Calls for nerfs to content has NOTHING to do with matchmaking. Mark my words. Even if Bungie doesn't implement matchmaking, people will STILL ASK FOR NERFS. Bungie does not need to listen to them unless the content is truly imbalanced. 5. This is a forgone conclusion even at the current difficulty level. Major raid groups will eventually get raids on farm mode, just like any other content. 6. See above. That's why they need to consistently release new content.
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                                    • Raid: You haven't played it yet you think you are an expert. I'm just going to say that, raids in general are hard only at first when nobody knows the fights but you are wrong in a lot of the things you say considering after a while raids do become much easier and it's possible to carry peoples.
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                                      • Raids: Why should you care if matchmaking is implemented? If you already have group why are you so friggin worried about it? All of the arguments for no matchmaking are flawed at a basic level.
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