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Edited by TransAMRaiser00:
7/31/2014 2:01:29 PM
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Definitely not hard. Just taxing. Matchmaking is more efficient. Why would matchmaking make exotics easier to get? What kind of logic is this? If you say nerfing, then it is bungie's fault for succumbing.
I have seen so many posts and attempts that TRY to refute matchmaking. Matchmaking is an option. If I want to play with randoms and fail it is up to me. If you want to play with your buddies, then that is also fine with me. Matchmaking does not make a difference to you joining friends. It's just another outlet.
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whats a raid and was there one in the beta? i dont rememer any
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No, there wasn't in the beta. Raids are over-the-top battles that require skill to accomplish. In the end, if u and ur mates succeed, you will have powerful loot.
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oh! thank you lol
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No prob, bruhhh.
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Matchmaking is more efficient from one perspective: the time it takes to find people if you are looking right this instant. It's less efficient in every other perspective: likelihood of failure is vastly higher than choosing good teammates, time spent wiping will be higher, time spent frustrated will be higher, etc. Basically, all the things that people have been hating about pugging for over a decade.
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All of those complaints just lead to one question: Then why did you go matchmaking if u had so many friends?
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Edited by Guardian1050: 7/31/2014 5:39:29 PMI've only ever pugged a raid once, and it was such a miserable experience that I wouldn't wish it on anyone else as it nearly ruined raiding for me in its entirety. At the time I didn't know any better, though. I thought that this is what people were supposed to do... Thankfully, I met a cool dude not long after in a dungeon, we became friends, and we joined a great guild with whom we raided and PvP'ed! That was a great experience, and in my mind, that is what gaming is all about.
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Without matchmaking, you would not have met that specific guy. You wouldn't spend the time looking for somebody good. You would just find a random player, not knowing the difficulty of the raid. It's the same process. I will say it many times, u reap what you sow. It's ur choice to do matchmaking.
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But there is already match making in the dungeon equivalent. Where you kinda test your metal if you will. He did good in that dungeon and was recognized by said person who then invited him to a group to do raids. The same exact thing will and should happen in destiny.
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Edited by Guardian1050: 7/31/2014 5:52:16 PMI met that guy in the MMO equivalent of a Strike (which already has matchmaking that I'm on board with).
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Yep, so matchmaking helps in communication. If done correctly.
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In easier modes where communication is unnecessary. We became friends because we started cracking jokes, not because we were waxing tactical poetic.
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Who said that won't happen in raids matchmaking? You can probably find some players that are in sync with u by observing their raid-gamestyle. What is a better place to evaluate the players for raid, than raid itself?
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You sure you've raided before? Raids are pretty much always in one of four places: 1. Leaders instructing group on mechanics pre-fight. 2. Fighting mobs or bosses. 3. Wiped. 4. Taking a break after a boss fight or after a series of wipes. Joking is allowed in phase 4 only if you've just defeated a boss. A good raid leader removes people who aren't taking the raid seriously (if it is actually challenging) because it distracts the group and gets in the way of the person whose job it is to call out relevant mechanics and information. P.S. It's worth noting that I wasn't all that fond of raiding after a couple months of it in part because of how seriously it was taken. It's also why I'm looking forward to raiding in a FPS as it should be more fluid and dynamic.
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That question is up to u. I cannot force anything on anybody. If I were to answer ur question, yes I have raided and won with plenty of friends and randoms. Fun times, fun times. I take raiding seriously, but if I do not have some fun in the game, then it's not a game is it? This whole conversation, however, does not relate to the negatives or positives of matchmaking. In order to end this irrelevant conversation, I will end it with a question? Is matchmaking obligational?
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Edited by Guardian1050: 7/31/2014 6:44:32 PMNice try, but I always recognize an argument "reductio ad absurdum." (Reduced to absurdity.) Your question, which I understand and feels very American, isn't relevant (not even in the slightest degree). It does not matter whether or not it's "obligatory" (I know too many words), what matters are the inevitable repercussions raid matchmaking has on games. (Which I have discussed in depth).
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I'm sorry, what repercussions? Who caused the repercussions in the first place? It's the players, don't blame a harmless mechanic in something players should be blamed for. U also sound kind of condescending in ur last reply. If bashing is all u can do, do not post. Actually, u know what? Keep posting. Keep posting so that everybody can see how condescending you r. I gave u a counter argument in the beginning, now counter it correctly.
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We're on an online forum: everyone sounds condescending. Though, I don't understand how countering a fallacious argument is condescending. Logical argumentation "has no feels." Also, I'm not sure which of your "counter arguments in the beginning" you want me to counter. I've responded to all of your comments. In my OP: [quote]On being asked what "my" issue with raid matchmaking is: What does happen, however, is the people who pug the raids generally complain and complain and complain that they can never finish a raid no matter how hard they try and that x, y, and z mechanics need to be nerfed (when in reality they don't as 99.9% it's a coordination issue), and these things then get nerfed. Then, something else needs to be nerfed. Before you know it (and this has happened to every game that has implemented a group finding system for difficult PvE content), content is being nerfed across the board. I seriously despise having to say this because I rarely get along with this group, but the elite and/or hardcore crowd is necessary for long-running games to survive. The hardcore crowd tests all of the new endgame content because they are always the first to get there, they give the best feedback on mechanics as they've been playing for far longer and with much more gusto than the average gamer, and they not only stick around the longest, but they are consistent in that there aren't large gaps in their playing record as is seen in many, many long-running games. (Ask someone how many times they've quit and returned to WoW or other MMO's.)[/quote]
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"Everyone sounds condescending" well you must be one sad person. I am sure not EvERYBOdY has that intention. Anyways, this was my counter argument ( I will help you so that you do not have to re read my posts): If balancing is what you are worrying about; who is the one that balances the game? The company of that game. Why do they do it? Complaints. Why do they succumb? Because they have no trust in their product. Did matchmaking cause the nerf? No, it was all the complainers. So don't blame the mechanic, but the players.
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Edited by Guardian1050: 7/31/2014 7:30:51 PM[quote]"Everyone sounds condescending" well you must be one sad person..[/quote] It's actually the nature of virtual discussions and arguments. I'm in grad school studying social psychology and social anthropology and seeing as how I've quite an interest in gaming and the communities which surround them, I've naturally extended some of my purview in this direction. (Most of which surrounds American gun violence with violent video games being a purported cause, though not by my own choice. The research thus far all but shows this is bunk, anyway.) Suffice to say, the issue lies in that over half of human communication is nonverbal, so we struggle (subconsciously mainly) to decipher meaning in this virtual medium. Anyway... [quote]I am sure not EvERYBOdY has that intention.[/quote] No, definitely not. You should really check out what's known as the "online disinhibition effect," though. Very interesting stuff that will probably look like common sense to you once you read it if you have spent a lot of time in online discussions / forums. [quote]If balancing is what you are worrying about; who is the one that balances the game? The company of that game. Why do they do it? Complaints. Why do they succumb? Because they have no trust in their product. Did matchmaking cause the nerf? No, it was all the complainers. So don't blame the mechanic, but the players.[/quote] Who is complaining if there is no one to complain, however? Cause and effect... Matchmaking implemented, random players grouped, raids failed, chorus of crying that goes on and on for weeks and months, developer caves to the pressure (they always do). You're right, though, and I never argued against your point that the onus is on the developer. This is only the means, however, and the ends are always the same: nerf this, nerf that, hit everything with a nerf wiffle ball bat.
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There are always complainers, always. As you can see in the forums. I agree that I hate nerfs, but I am not in control, bungie is. Thank you for educating me, but I still don't see anything bad about matchmaking if done correctly. I like your recent reply, it's informative.
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Of course, of course. The difference being that most complaints come and go within a day or two. I remember the heated discussions surrounding matchmaking in WoW quite vividly, however, as they went on for months. Last I heard (haven't played WoW in quite some time), the "debates" were still raging. Do please believe me when I say understand your point of view on this. I used to be in precisely the same camp as you back before LFG was implemented in WoW. I also saw what it did to the game... Nerfs became obligatory rather than optional on Blizzard's end because people stopped grouping up for dungeons entirely because of the usual difficulty of finding a tank. They'd sit in the queue whilst question and then find that their "tank" would be a DPS pally, warrior, or DK and would end up wiping the raid over and over. People complained that it was too hard, nerf hammer was thrown at everything. The dungeons are now so easy that you can kill bosses by coughing on them. This is my concern, and it's one that I don't want to see repeated. Anyway, thanks for the chat, and I'm glad you enjoyed the info! =) If you're on PS4, feel free to add me -- iD_HawKeYe (My mother just got into town, and I'm about to go meet her.)
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See, the thing is, destiny won't need specific class sets like wow.(said in video about endgame content) All u need is cooperation and know how to play fps. Anyways, u have your experiences and I have mine. Anyways, have a great family reunion. Oh, I play on the Xbox-360. Not enuff money to buy next gen.
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[quote]See, the thing is, destiny won't need specific class sets like wow.(said in video about endgame content) All u need is cooperation and know how to play fps.[/quote] Wanted to respond quickly to this as I have a moment. Class roles are altogether irrelevant unless you wanted to make an anti-matchmaking argument for Destiny. The LFG idea became popular because of the difficulty involved with finding a tank for dungeons, especially at sub-max level. Destiny, as you mentioned, does not have class roles and therefore will not have this problem. In any case, I said that is altogether irrelevant because class roles were simply the reason LFG became popular. Class roles had nothing to do with why matchmaking was a destructive force with regards to game challenge and mechanics. Regards.
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Well, to counter that, u said people stop grouping up because tanks are hard to find. (Which makes no sense) and they resorted to matchmaking. If so, then matchmaking would still not be the problem. Since no specific class is needed u don't have to go to matchmaking to find them. If this is not what u meant, please clarify.
