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#Community

6/3/2013 8:10:14 PM
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Bnext: The Loss of Community Both Public and Private

When Bnet turned into Bnext, a lot of us were scared. The site is now unrecognizable from what it was previously. It was this change in features we had all grown accustomed to that upset most of us. However over time, many people began to accept this change- as we all knew we would. Yet the things we cried out for were not the things in most trouble. The biggest issues with Bnext were the long term effects- two of which in particular led to the death of the feeling of community. On Bnet, we were divided into forums. Sure we have tags now, but I for one no longer think of them as forums (largely since I search by 'all topics' and nothing else). This separation led to a sense of community with the others that shared your forum. For a large part of my Bnet career, I counted myself a member of the Halo 3 forum, and not to sound cocky but anybody visiting that forum any time before 2010 probably saw me at some point. After that point, though I mixed forums quite frequently, the Halo 3 forum died down and I went to the Community Forum as my main place. Then I counted myself as a member of the Community Forum. A large number of users count themselves as Floodians as they ventured primarily into the Flood forum. Each place had its own atmosphere and set of 'what is and is not acceptable.' Each place had something for someone to feel like they were in a distinct community, though we were all part of the Bnet community. Then there were Private Groups. These groups let us customize our experience akin to how we can customize public forums now. We had the ability to make our own rules and decide who we see and interact with. We could become parts of smaller communities and become much closer to those people. Private Groups sustained many users over the Darkness and became a home to rest in as we waited it out. Some groups suffered from the drought of activity while others became simply secluded, providing their members with a 'close environment.' Both the sense of individual public communities and private communities disappeared with Bnext. When Bnext arrived, I felt like I was in a sea of people. There was no way to filter the carnage, no way to simply talk with the forum community I had grown accustomed to over the years in the Community Forum. With Private Groups, I felt like many or all were dead to me. The darkness hurt many groups, but Bnext struck the final blow. Groups lost tons of features that made them worth going to, and were pushed out of the way. People stopped going to groups and many of them died, as I'm sure most site veterans can attest to. Some are returning, and some hung on by a thread and are still on the edge, but both of those numbers are pitiful compared to the number that fell. I had hoped, over time, both these senses of community would be restored. They have not. I still feel like a blank face in a sea of people. I barely ever see the same names as I did on OldBnet. Private groups still lack features and prominence needed to bring them back. And this kills me when I have invested so much time and effort into some groups. I pray Bungie can do something to bring back this sense of community. ________________________________________________________________________ On its own, that would easily be enough for a thread. But I am not done yet. I feel obligated to try and fix the problem myself, and I make this thread also in the hope many of you will feel the same, having hated the loss you felt when your community was stripped from you. I like Bnext a lot more than I did five months ago (it was January, right?). But I want to feel like I'm part of something again, and I hope you all do too. So what can we do to fix these two losses of community? For Public Community, we need something to make people feel like more than just a face. Months ago we were told veteran site users would be recognized, and many of us took this to mean member titles would return. I feel like that would be a great thing to have back. It would restore a sense of identity to those of us that have outlasted the darkness. We need[i] something[/i] to make people feel like they are involved. Member Titles were for fun, and the elitism was near all satirical in nature, but maybe that is the answer. I feel like dragging it out until Destiny would be harmful to the community. Not only do people here still feel like they are just one of many, but surely new people coming to this site would see such things and thing to themselves that this something they can strive for. The longer we wait, the worse it is, I feel. What else could we do? We could give burritosenior his spinning mustache bomb. Continue, what are our other options? I feel like the ability to customize tag searches would be invaluable. It might sound silly, but I would love the ability to customize what forums I see. I don't mean one tag at a time though, like we have now. For instance, I would like to be able to search for all tags except '#offtopic' and '#destiny' in one search. Then I could search for #Flood to find threads by more veteran site members (since people that have been here a while to form a sense of community undoubtedly use the old forum names as tags- in this case I use #septagon to signify where this thread would have gone before) and #offtopic to look through the entire Flood, all the while searching for gaming, community, support, etc. without having to see the flood of offtopic and Destiny threads. This little bit of extra customization would, I believe, go a long way to making me feel like there's a sense of community again, as I would see a lot more of the same faces when I went into certain groups of tags instead of having to single them out one by one or have the flood of 'all topics.' Private Groups. I believe they really need their member titles back for sure. That was a way to personalize groups and make them feel unique. I don't really feel I need to explain that one. The big thing for me is... Private Groups having public threads, which also ties in to people 'following' groups. I simply disagree with the direction Bungie went with this. OK yes, it is a remarkably cool idea in concept. Private Groups can advertise while also appeal to people that follow groups instead of joining, etc. But the whole 'limit of 10 groups and follow the rest instead of joining' just completely killed things for me. I left groups I wanted to stay in just because I wanted the option of having other groups in an evolving community. And yet I don't feel any more involved in these groups. On the contrary, I feel like a stranger. With groups having the option to make threads public, it's always a debate between... do you want to make people aware of the group, or should there be a reason to join at all? If groups make most threads public, then there's no reason to actually become part of that community. You can just browse the forums like normal and see those threads. Why would you even follow a group at this point when you can see everything they do without the effort? On the other hand, if they make few to no threads public, there's really little way to discover groups now. Furthermore, you don't know if a group is really worth joining since you can only have 10 groups and many people probably don't want to waste a slot on a group that is only a 'maybe' when your 10 slots are full. Essentially, what it comes down to is that following a group is more or less pointless now, and public Private Group threads have helped kill inner-group activity and discouraged membership. This thread consists of thoughts I have had on the matter of the sense of Bnet Community disappearing. If anybody has thoughts or stories of their own, I would be grateful if you would share them. I would adore it if Bungie would somehow restore our senses of unity, as I still feel like dust in the wind. Thank you.

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  • Edited by Cryptic: 2/23/2014 12:15:23 PM
    [quote]When Bnet turned into Bnext, a lot of us were scared. The site is now unrecognizable from what it was previously. It was this change in features we had all grown accustomed to that upset most of us. However over time, many people began to accept this change- as we all knew we would. Yet the things we cried out for were not the things in most trouble. The biggest issues with Bnext were the long term effects- two of which in particular led to the death of the feeling of community. ... Essentially, what it comes down to is that following a group is more or less pointless now, and public Private Group threads have helped kill inner-group activity and discouraged membership. This thread consists of thoughts I have had on the matter of the sense of Bnet Community disappearing. If anybody has thoughts or stories of their own, I would be grateful if you would share them. I would adore it if Bungie would somehow restore our senses of unity, as I still feel like dust in the wind. Thank you.[/quote]Good thread burrito. Bungie.net will get better over time. The reason groups don't seem to have much meaning now is because they're lacking some features needed to promote activity. I wouldn't be surprised if Bungie plans to integrate groups on Bungie.net with Destiny. Wouldn't it be cool to have group challenges and stats for Destiny? Being able to schedule a time to get together for a mission or multiplayer gameplay with friends in your group from the Bungie mobile app would be a step in the right direction. In regards to not seeing familiar faces, it may not be Bungie's new website. I can't speak for other members, but I just haven't been able to allocate as much time as I used to for posting and playing video games. I got a new console and haven't played more than a few hours on it. In fact, the guests that have visited my home have probably played more than I have. At the moment, I'm working two new jobs Monday to Saturday, taking 16 units in school, and taking care of my grandmother. I also started a fitness program so I'm at the gym four days a week as well. I have a Bungie related project/website that I wanted to launch a while back for the regulars, but it keeps getting delayed. I'm hoping to get that launched down the road, which I think will help community interaction.

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  • Gather ‘round, lovelies. Let me preface this by saying a few things: First off, generalizations will be made. That’s how this works and I think that many of you are capable of putting two and two together. Regarding the idea of groups and the small communities within, I understand that real people are involved. Relationships are forged and lives are changed. I’ve been going here since I was a child. I credit my getting through some very dark times in my life to this site. I understand how strong these bonds are and I’ve maintained friendships originally forged through groups on this site. Some groups dissolved before the darkness or .next, but those relationships remain. Here’s the thing: many groups are created to be some sort of “refuge from the public forums” during the later years of Bungie.old. People wanted that because the public forums had ridiculous amounts of rules and many people who didn’t heed them anyway. It was quite a bit chaotic. Yes, they had character and they had an identity (see: Flood), but people still wanted that controlled environment. Groups provided that. And sometimes the outlined purpose would be a bit more specific: forge discussion, sci-fi, etc. But the point was to control the discussion area for whatever the group founder wanted. And for Bungie.old, that was fine. But it also pointed out some severe issues with Bungie.old that would not be acceptable for Bungie.next. So now, that controlled environment or “safe haven” is now available in the public forums and groups are redesigned to serve a new purpose, although that detail is still in the making. Granted, it’s difficult to figure out how to utilize groups for their new purpose without having the product they’re designed to accompany (Destiny) available. Remember, this whole place is under construction. Objectively, this explains why many groups are gone. The group system and public forums are no longer compatible with the ideas of bungie.old groups. There are other factors for people leaving, the main one being not wanting to deal with the new site/holding out for improvements (each to his own). But there are some very specific groups that even before the darkness evolved outside the confines of serving the purpose of fixing what people didn’t like about the public forums. So, let’s take slightly different direction from my original reply for this one. Let’s not go with leaving Bungie.net completely, but a group evolving in to a community that is no longer dependent on the design state of Bungie.net to exist. Groups that survived managed to do this. Groups that remained dependent on Bungie.old to exist died. They could not, in theory, serve their purpose any longer. Keep in mind that this encompasses several types of groups that were meant for discussion that was difficult to have on the old public forums, but are now possible. The purpose of many groups became irrelevant with Bungie.next, but the relationships and people remained. And I honestly think that if a different website was enough to drive a group apart in such a dramatic manner, I would question the stability of that little community. Maybe it had its glory days at one point, but, as I’ve stated previously, maybe it wasn’t meant to stick around and remain relevant in the face of a public forum that now has massive amounts of potential for being the haven that members once sought in private groups on the old site. I’m not going to argue that this is the best situation for the Bungie community as a whole. If more groups had survived, it would have meant that maybe they could have grown to accompany the Destiny community wonderfully. And I feel that the groups who did survive have great potential to do so. Granted, the vast majority of groups that have survived aren’t buzzing with the activity they were once used to. This is likely due to the mass confusion and general slower traffic the site is seeing. Additionally, these groups need evaluate where they want to go in the long run, especially in the face of the new faces and community culture that Destiny will bring in. I feel that there are things that desperately need improvement in these new systems, and many groups can feel a bit lost using a system that’s meant for a product that we don’t understand yet. That is going to put us all in a situation where everybody is going to lose. And remember, groups have come and gone long before Bungie.next and it hurts to see these little communities disassemble as a casualty of time and change in Bungie.net format & culture. This situation was on a much greater and drastic scale, and it’s jarring for many of us. Now here’s the meaner part: I work as a director for an offsite organization that relies on the presence of a stable community to keep sponsors around. In order to entice new people and keep current members, my organization needs to offer a unique and relevant incentive for people to join. Originally, the organization was to be an online refuge for players to form bonds in a safe environment safe from rampant sexual harassment online. But as more organizations started to pop up and the online atmosphere began to improve, we realized that we wanted to remain as a relevant community. So we evolved our purpose. We started programs to teach people how to work at industry events like PAX or MLG. We’re still around today. The point is we had to evolve our purpose in the face of a changing platform and culture in order to stick around. I feel that the things that we went through rings true for groups here. Many groups had a great thing going, but were objectively no longer necessary with the advent of a customizable public forum. I understand the OP’s sense of loss and expressed grief. I grew up here and I’ve seen groups of people leave altogether that really stung. As a community, we need to drop our continual refusal to accept this kind of change. Better yet, we need to articulate what we need to improve upon a system that needed to change for this new game. It’s not going back to what it was like on the old site. But if we communicate beyond a dialogue of nostalgia and pleas to revert things back, we can revive the sense of belonging that works with a new platform that was needed. I stand by what I previously said, but perhaps now that I’m not sleep deprived, my point will be clearer.

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    • I agree with mostly everything you said, burrito. And I remember you from Bungie.old. I have gotten used to the new site, but that is obvious and to be expected since it's been 5 months, so that really doesn't mean anything. Bungie killed private groups, gave us a broken website and told us to wait to get something actually complete (similar to what 343 did with Halo 4............................), lied, promised us more members but only drove people away, made the 2 worst topics on the mains (religion and politics) allowed, shut what was left of the community off from itself by allowing users to mute anyone for any reason (even if it's simply because of a difference of opinion), trashed what was really the only thing even keeping this site alive during the darkness (the flood, obviously), gave us hashtags (.....), gave us a ton of broken features that still haven't been really fixed yet, didn't even bother to address the issues (simply telling people not to leave would have helped....), it's not even a forum anymore, and I could go on for ages.

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    • Eh, it's not too bad. Bungie just needs to keep giving us tools to work with and we'll find a new use for private groups.

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      • Give me back my blue hat and I'll be more active.

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      • I love everything about this website except the actual website. I hate this.

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      • I joined the community about post H2 and I can tell you I like the site a whole lot more now. The traffic changed because of Halo not being owned by Bungie and then the update happened and people just ran away. At first I didn't like it but now I really enjoy everything we gained. The only thing I dislike is we can talk about religion and politics on The Flood which opens up huge flame wars and two topics I'm really not interested in. And the second one is the ignore feature, don't get me wrong some people get annoyed very easily but burning a bridge is completely separating the community itself. And IMO I always thought member titles were just really silly because people thought there opinion meant more if they were a Mythic Member while quoting a regular member or whatever title they're higher than.

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      • I somewhat agree. When I used to visit the Community Forum, things were simple and it was like talking to your real-life friends. After B.next, I just feel as if that's changed. Not sure how or why, I just do.

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      • I remember you from the ol' Halo 3 forum..... those long winded debates. I considered myself a Floodian and Community forum goer since Halo 3 died. I guess I've kinda adjusted now but I still only go on those forums, there are many new faces - but still many I know. Some, if not a lot have vanished. Groups, well what can I say? I never spent much time in them but they have been..... well destroyed as some would put it. I guess you're still feeling a bit of nostalgia? I still haven't totally adjusted, but change is always difficult. Maybe once coup returns B.next will feel more like home.

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      • - [i]"But, [burrito], look on the bright side. You have [b]us[/b]!" - "Not your most persuasive argument..."[/i]

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      • Edited by LnP Delphius: 6/5/2013 3:49:27 PM
        I certainly stopped dropping by after the overhaul, but that is likely due greatly in part to my lack of technical competence in all things hashtaggable. I'll just keep lurking til Destiny hits the shelves.

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      • Edited by Commander Tempu: 6/5/2013 3:53:17 PM
        Well after reading through some of this i understand how many feel. Many left due to the changes seeming too drastic and the site being like "Other Sites." Old B.Net had a smokey atmosphere. B.next sorta, little better but some feel including my self that the changes were too drastic. That there were not some options or even resons that they could stay such as saved threads or Uniqueness ect. As for any group. Its the Regulars and Members that make it up who stay regardless of what happens. While features have declined and title bars are gone it would not matter too much as they might have left anyways. While it is sad to see them go. Some were stuck on the idea of being Elite. Others it did not matter but hey it was cool. On the Flip Side there were things that make old B.net Unique. Bungie.Next while updated is not unique in the regards that the old site was. This being said many were put off buy the fact the changes were drastic to affect the community as a whole. Not only in groups but across the board. I think we lost more than we will recover even if Destiny came out right now some might drift back but its a few years even a year before the community gets its legs back. Some changes were necessary others not so much. Hashtagging is a waste of time. I would rather see a more powerful search engine. I would like to see the things in the past that made people want to stay here. Like posted topics, Stickys ect. Some things from Old B.net should migrate back. While Sub-community's are nice some just sit in that bubble. Not every one sometimes they venture out but there are good reasons why bungie made the changes to groups. Not saying all the features ect should have left but they wanted to bring them closer in and prevent some groups from not having some oversight due to the Group Admin doing what he or she felt like doing. Pro's cons to everything. I do agree that allot of changes drove people away and stripped groups bear. The real problem was that they were used to a whole different format. Many of the things they had before are gone and [b]STILL GONE[/b] that made it seem like every other site now. Things are happening at a slow pace till E-3 and Destiny picks up speed. Things were optional like the title bars but the whole point here was to have fun and be Unique. I think in time this will happen but the plastic came off the couches not long ago so things are settling in. I do not see a return for allot of things. Hope as i might. I suspect Bungie is waiting on title bars till Destiny launches. Allot of things are going to have to wait as they are too engaged with getting out the game and putting the final touches on the game. In the end the strength of anything small or large group is the members with some leadership. A good leader listens but it seems hectic now as we are stuck in a weird place. Many felt the changes were too much for them and that bungie.Next lost that loving feeling. Like anything new it takes time to find its identity. When some one strips that way it can be a good bad/thing. You just have to make a bad thing into a good thing. Stay positive. Eventually i am sure changes will be made again. Might see more next year. For now we just have to put up with a smaller community. We need Tiger-Man to be the B.net spokesmen and give us more of a uniqueness thus shaping our identity. Its here still, just its going to take time to get it back. Bungie Loves Us All.-A bewildered Brother Fishbowl.

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      • [quote] I still feel like a blank face in a sea of people.[/quote] It's more like a lake now. The lack of games the past couple years as well as the site overhaul drained the pool so to speak. Destiny will bring more people in once it is actually in fruition, but for now I doubt anything will change much, even with E3. The Community is dead and gone. It has been absorbed by the 'All Topics' forum search for me. That said I wish still there was a hide tag function to eliminate all Destiny threads from my view. I know I can search by [Off Topic] or [Community], but the I want to see everything [i][b]EXCEPT[/i][/b] Destiny. All it is now is completely pointless speculation of speculation and repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, polls on things that DON'T MATTER until the game is actually viable. Groups were floundering before, and are all but ghost towns now. That to me is the real shame here.

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        • Edited by Cortana Five: 6/5/2013 6:49:07 AM
          Here's the thing about [b]private groups[/b]: (hey kids. See what I put in bold? This is only about private groups) Many, if not all, private groups before the darkness and early on in the darkness were there to compensate for restrictions that the public forums had. In a private group, forum rules didn't matter or you could filter out who'd be in a discussion entirely. Most will disagree when I say that Bungie.net fixed all of that shit. These features didn't kill your group. Your group was no longer relevant in the face of a public forum that was now less restricted and newly customizable. Your private group was just that, a private group, not a true community that that served enough of a purpose to evolve out of the group system and in to something better. And trust me, there are groups that did originate on Bungie.net and left to grow: My favorite being the CaveGirls, not to mention numerous sites dedicated to clans that originated here or even sites dedicated to stuff like forge. The purpose of those two groups were more than just "a haven from the public forums" as so many now dead groups claimed to be. The groups that have survived or evolved in to some place offsite were centered around something unique or important enough to merit people staying around. If there was a strong community that cared about its own existence as a whole that formed in a group, those people would have either stuck around or found refuge elsewhere. But your group dissolved completely after Bungie.next if the darkness didn't get it first, didn't it? It failed. It couldn't stand up against the test of format and time. It wasn't a community that was truly built to last or it likely even served such a fleeting purpose that the appeal of your group no longer existed. And that's okay. Maybe your group served its purpose and its time is up. It's not your fault that you didn't foresee such drastic changes, and it can also be difficult to accept. Groups are no longer going to serve the purpose they once did. Anyone remember what they were originally for? Organizing LAN parties. Look at how far they've come with how they've been utilized. Right now, it's going to be hard to really utilize this system without a released game to back up the new group format. Things suck right now. It's confusing and tough to understand. But instead of whining about your shitty private group that died because it wasn't relevant enough to your members stick around, why not take off your rose glasses and get to work improving a platform where you have more of a voice than you realize? *puts on flame suit*

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          • Miss you b.net :(

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          • I agree with some of the things you talk about here, but in all honesty the... "motive", if thats the right word, is not really in the right place. I feel as though the Bnext may not have all of the great aspects that the old site had, but the truth is being part of this community and part of the evolving life inside Bungie is adapting to some the changes that are made on Bnet. This does not imply that criticism isn't important to help build the Bnext of the future. But as one of our faithful ninjas said, a true member of the community and someone who posses the soul of the original Bnet would not be talking about separating or even attempt to leave, or further others from this community. That should be the last thing on your mind

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          • Dear God! China called, they want their wall back! TLDR

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          • I read 95% of that lol, and have to say I agree with you on 95% of it. ;) Titleses... We needses them precious!

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          • Edited by squirrel dude: 6/5/2013 2:03:12 AM
            Yeah, I'm not someone who would miss The Flood forum. Not at all. Nope. Everyone who knows me knows I'm totally dispassionate about that. Yep. I had absolutely no emotional investment in that place. Absolutely none. No investment in the BEST FORUM ON THE WEBSITE -blam!-ING DAMNIT. .... Jesus, I'm getting angry at myself for even making light of how upset I am. But yeah, I've had some trepidations about the new site.

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          • I was part of the old community but I never felt like I fit, now as Ive become older I'm starting to make sense of it. I get your nostalgia but things happen. The world will constantly evolve and it won't wait for you, so you either force yourself out into the forms or you don't. You know what I mean, if you stop you will be forgotten. And if your friends stop their memory may also be forgotten.

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          • Edited by VIC: 6/3/2013 9:46:25 PM
            8
            Identifying with individual forums was always silly. Looking back on it, I regret doing so all those years ago. We're all members of the 7th Column and that's the tru7h. Identifying with private groups is cool and the lack of features doesn't affect whether you can identify with those private groups are not. There are three groups that I "identify myself" with. HFCS (#wheremyninjasat), The WorkPlace (m), and Chapter (other thing here). These groups are all great because of the people in them and the friendships I made with those people. You don't need a special title or "forum safehaven" to stick out. I mean that in both the general sense, and you in particular burrito. You already make good posts and are a thoughtful member; the other stuff is just extra. Sure, titles are nice and it would be great to see them return but the lack thereof does not "kill" the community or private groups. tl;dr: I don't disagree with you 100% and while I agree that it would be great to see some group features and titles return, they aren't necessary to the point where the community will die without them. Don't be so dramatic, broham. :)

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            • I liked the old forums because of the sheer simplicity and the sense of community which was offered by every forum and group.

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            • Is this why you don't post as often?

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            • Edited by ALI217: 6/4/2013 4:10:51 PM
              That was a big wall unfortunately [spoiler]TL;DR[/spoiler]

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            • I like that we're one big ole community. It's how it should be. Doesn't matter where you post more times than not. We are all individuals with our very own experiences here. As it should be. There are only a few groups that I frequent and one has lost damn near all activity. That doesn't change how I feel about the members or the groups as a whole. Doesn't change my place in each group.

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            • Edited by LordMonkey: 6/4/2013 7:41:45 AM
              It's honestly been long enough to where I have forgotten what b.net looked like. Then again, my memory is something of an enigma.

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