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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.

This thread is inspired by another: view original post

Edited by MasterBarek: 5/9/2013 4:06:55 PM
10

Why Puzzles Should Define Destiny and Change the FPS/RPG Genre

Several concepts have been ruminating in my head for awhile and I think they've finally percolated into a solid concept. (It's a long OP...but for those that like it short and simple here's the summary: For gamers who are looking for what will make [i]Destiny[/i] groundbreaking to play, I think an answer lies in making problem solving and critical thinking a part of missions and gameplay. Bungie is amazing at creating complex puzzles in ARGs that engage the community. In order to create a more dynamic and compelling game, I think Bungie should incorporate puzzles and mystery aa a core element in [i]Destiny’s[/i] story and co-op missions, not all of them mind you but some of them. The purpose of this to remove the sense of always being on a guided tour of a game’s content by being directed to point A, B, and C but rather having the element of critical thinking to give ownership and value the act of discovery and completion of goals.) [b]THE ISSUE[/b] It seems to me many gamers are looking for a new dynamic in gameplay. You see, ever since [i]Destiny[/i] was announced, I've had this nagging doubt about what's Bungie is going to come up with as far as the co-op experience that will keep me coming back for more. Going on the limited information we have, how is going up against enemy NPCs in variable environments going to keep things interesting? I feel like there's the potential for things to devolve into a morass of: 1) Go take objective A from the enemy; 2) Go find this cool doo-hickey or thing-a-ma-bob; 3) Retake objective A. This time from stronger enemies; and 4) Go find this slightly stronger whatchamacallit. (I am over-simplifying and being somewhat facetious here.) I am thinking specifically of what I did not like about [i]Halo 4's[/i] Spartan Ops. I mean I understand Grognok gives Bungie the ability to quickly generate new content. However, there has to be more to it than just new environments and new scenarios for this game to be groundbreaking. [b]A SOLUTION[/b] However, one of the many things Bungie is awesome at is the creation of puzzles in the form of Alternative Reality Games (ARGs) as a promotion or tie-in to games or as a way to interact with the community. Completing such quests usually result in a reward, Easter Egg, or prize. Bungie has been very creative with these types of endeavors and my thought is why not include these types of problem solving exercises into Destiny? In my opinion, Bungie should take something they do well, create cool puzzles, and incorporate them into Destiny's core gameplay. [b]THE SCENARIO[/b] I think the best way explain what I mean is by painting a scenario: You've been playing [i]Destiny[/i] for a few weeks, going on raids; when suddenly you receive a message: [i]Our faction's intelligence office just intercepted the following transmission: The Destroyer is the eye of the beholder[/i] followed by a bunch of weird looking symbols. You have no idea what any of it means, but you file it away. A month later, you're solo stealthing though a Vex base on a weapon retrieval mission when, lo and behold, you spot one of the symbols tucked away in an obscure corner. You go over and touch it and it downloads part of a diagram into your armor's computer. So the symbols give you more information huh? Maybe the rest are in this base. If not, maybe on the planet or multiple planets. Maybe when I complete the diagram I'll be able to figure out what The Destroyer or eye of the beholder means or maybe it will lead to another clue...I'll let your mind make up the rest. [b]THE VALUE[/b] Having players critically think like this in order to make a discovery or achieve a goal adds significant value to the experience and removes the gimmicky illusion and shallowness of "discovery" that plagues most games today. I am not saying all missions need to be a mystery or puzzle, but I am personally tired of games holding my hand and guiding me every step of the way. Essentially, I think it is much more worthwhile to accomplish and objective because you had to critically think and figured out some clues in a dynamic environment rather than you were told in various ways to go point A,B, and C and completing the mission. (Compare and contrast scenario in the comments) [b]COMPLEXITY AND SCALABILITY[/b] The great thing about missions revolving around puzzles is they are varied and scalable in several different categories: 1) Size of Group Needed (Individual, group, clan, faction, the entire Bungie community); 2) Duration and Complexity, and 3) The Reward (New areas, secret boss fights, weapons, gear, abilities, new pieces of the story). Now I know some are thinking, well what will happen is somebody will solve the puzzle and then publicize it and others won’t have to figure things out on their own? Maybe but what if it wasn’t necessarily expedient to share it with other because it would negate a strategic advantage you’ve gained upon completion. What if that strategic advantage benefited your entire faction in Faction Wars? Who’s gonna want to drop any hints to a rival faction? In closing, I think Bungie should incorporate ARG type puzzles into [i]Destiny’s[/i] story and missions. The purpose of this is to remove the sense of always being on a guided tour of a game’s content but rather have the element of critical thinking to give ownership and depth to the act of discovery and completion of goals. This post is the results of mulling over a couple of post found [url=https://www.bungie.net/en-us/Forum/Post?id=60092791&path=1]here[/url] and [url=https://www.bungie.net/7_What-things-have-you-never-seen-in-a-game-before-a/en-us/Forum/Post?id=60363307]here[/url] and by reading the book [url=http://www.readyplayerone.com/][i]Ready Player One[/i][/url], which was recommended to me by [b]Heart Of Osiris[/b]. I am looking forward to hearing the community’s thoughts and feedback and discussing this idea with you! [Edit: I've significantly changed things to make it easier to read. Hope it helps.]

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  • Oh My God Yes!!!!! This is exactly what i meant in that 1st thread i made. I'm so glad you made this thread. It will definatly promote thorough investigation of areas and will help bring the community together for collaboration like what happens with the ARG's. I think you did an excellent job of fleshing out the idea here and explaining it in a more understandable way than i did, Well Done! P.S. Thanks for the Shout Out.

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  • This could really do wonders in Destiny if implemented in the correct way. I actually think we will see things in the game like this. For all we know they have already put out ARGs into the world without us knowing. I am still think about why they wrote Fallen as "Fa [u]ll[/u] e[u]n[/u]" on their poster. I think anything in game would work similarly to this but with some differences such as having to find the transmission as well. When the Cortana letters were released they weren't popular right away. It took a bit of time to get traction but eventually they took off. However, we already know about Destiny unlike how Halo was unknown to us when the letters came out. I think there are some things that have been secretly let out but most will be found during the release of the game and will hint at future releases and DLC.

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    • Didn't read OP but I did read the part where you said puzzles should DEFINE Destiny, and I don't think that's a good idea. Puzzles in the game, sure but not make it a puzzle game. If you mean like Dark Souls where the game just throws you into the world and you have to figure out what to do on your own then sure, that's not too bad, or learning about the game through context clues or item descriptions, eh I wouldn't mind that too much, but making it full of pure puzzles when I just want to shoot stuff is not a good idea either.

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        Given the posts, I think there is a difference between a puzzle that is a ticky-tack (a Logic Game, for those who bothered themselves with those in HS/College/etc.), and a puzzle which has a more emotional impact (a true mystery). Skyrim's stone turning puzzles were all ticky-tack, except for one: Yngol Barrow. There, you learned of the poem which contained the riddle's answer: "Whale in the sea, so should he be," etc. etc. Even this puzzle was a little hum-drum: the book was immediately to the left of the level you needed to pull, and this puzzle could have inspired more. But Bethesda's effort was appreciated greatly. Puzzles which contain more powerful mysteries could unfold over several chapters of Destiny. Information that was irrelevant to us to win one campaign or defeat one foe may turn out to be incredibly useful on another planet or in another galaxy. Renaissance intellectuals were fascinated by the occult, by mysterious symbols and signs, and the beyond. These things were so striking to them that some made them the foundation for memory and mnemonic devices (as seen in Francis Yates's [i]The Art of Memory[/i]. I know I would love to see a game which gives me material I don't understand fully, or has multiple uses or purposes not immediately evident. That sort of fascination with mystery is alive and well in gaming.

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      • [b]COMPARE AND CONTRAST SCENARIO[/b] Which of the following missions would you rather do: 1) You and three friends have been working this puzzle for a week. You've figured out the next big clue is located at a particular Fallen base, but you have no idea what you are looking for or where to look for it. You load up and are stealthing through the base, keeping a low profile, when you finally happen upon a computer. You boot it up when all of a sudden a hacking protocol (think Deus Ex styled hacking mini-game) you've never seen before pops up, an alien computer voice starts yelling things really loudly, and some alien looking symbols began counting down. You hurriedly began trying to figure stuff out, but after a couple of seconds, sirens began to go off and the Fallen began to descend upon your position. You are making progress but then the system kicks you out and you have to start over. (I guess you know what the symbol for 0 is now). As for your buddies, the first wave was pretty easy to handle, but more and more Fallen just keep pouring in. The mood is slowly shifting from cockiness to uneasiness. Suddenly a Cabal appears too and they start frantically yelling and cursing at you to figure it out because they won't be able to hold out and protect you much longer. It's like the floodgates of hell have opened! At this point you are desperately just trying to complete the hack before everyone is killed...nobody’s even thought about an exit strategy yet. Will you be able to complete the hack on the first try before everyone dies? Will completing the hack help you out of your predicament or will you have fight your way back to safety? What if there are multiple paths to take some of which you haven't explored? Which one will you take? Or 2) A commander in the form of an NPC or cinematic tells you that there's some vital intel located on a computer at a Fallen base. You load up and work your way through fairly light resistance until you find the computer. You interact with it, a cinematic of your character trying to hack it plays and then a siren sounds. The commander dials in and informs you that your automated hacking protocol will take 5 minutes to break through the firewall and you must therefore hold your position against the Fallen. Queue the timer. After a fierce battle, the commander checks in and notices the hack opened up some new doors and kindly sets waypoints to assist a difficult exfil. Upon return, the commander informs you that the intel recovered has led to new clues that result in your next mission.

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        • Physical puzzles like "Make all five squares fit in a space that only fits four" make me want to shoot someone, hence why I stop playing them and go play an FPS. However, you're talking about the best kind of puzzle. The mystery/mindf**k kind of puzzle. I'm all for puzzles like that. Good suggestion. :D

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          • Skyrim's puzzles where you have to find the matching claw and put the three animals on the door in order was fine. The 3-6 3-sided stones were a waste of time. LA Noire's mission where you had to decipher the poems to find the location of the next clue were time-consuming but good. It just depends on 1, if they do it and 2, how they do it. Puzzles can make or break a game.

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          • I like it.

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            • My first instinct is a big resounding Nooooooooooooo. Now, if you actually mean a sort of mental mystery instead of an actual puzzle, perhaps (like in trying to find out history you have to piece together the clues you get. But if you're meaning actual physical puzzles - absolutely not. This is an FPS, and this is an action game. I don't want to have to light torch A, and then run down a hallway, jump a crack, and light torch B in 5 seconds. that kind of gameplay should remain out of an FPS. This isn't a platformer or a puzzle game. I don't want to have Zelda style dungeons. It would absolutely ruin the game game for me.

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              • TL;DR

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