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originally posted in:The Spiker Garden
3/12/2013 4:34:13 AM
10
The class divisions being based directly on the class' statistics (agility hunter, energy hunter, etc) would not be cool. Too basic and not enough room for the type of intricate customization that Bungie will be going for. Besides the Hunter will likely be the highest DPS; there will be no shield hunter, that is absurd.
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[quote]there will be no shield hunter, that is absurd.[/quote] I thought that the shield hunter would make a great vanguard, and in that completely eliminate the need for another class.
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[quote]Besides the Hunter will likely be the highest DPS; there will be no shield hunter, that is absurd.[/quote]Like I said in the thread:[quote]And as the reader might have already guessed, not every stat is probably worth investing in depending on the class.[/quote]As for the inner-class divisions, I'm just not seeing them going for a super complicated "Invest in this perk at level 10 to get a +10 hit ratio against insects" skill tree sort of game. This system, coupled with being able to choose from different variants of class abillities, seems elegant enough for a first person shooter.
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I have to agree with Hylebos. This isn't a full on RPG. While yes the four stats Hylebos has listed is a bit scarce, and probably is either incomplete or even completely wrong, I don't see the need to unnecessarily muck up the mechanics with tedious class building. Bungie has stated they want to make Destiny fun, yet simple to understand and grasp. Because of this, I don't see skill trees like those in Elder Scrolls popping up, however, I do believe that these Modules, unless they're implemented in a way none of us would have seen coming, will have a high degree of malleability to the classes Bungie creates. I would personally like to see Custom Mod blueprints. Players would have to find exceedingly rare bluprints, along with the required Mods and extra materials in order to craft a mod that preforms better than it's generic cousins, though either not by much or have restrictions on their use(I went in-depth about this on Hylebos' sub-posts).
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Rather than be outright better, couldn't the custom mods simply perform differently or mess with stats more exotically? Say an extremely fast, very accurate counter-sniper hunter made of paper? A nearly always invisible, slow as sludge The End? I'm thinking for fun in non-regulation PvP here. Regulation would be whatever applicable vanilla classes of course.
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Edited by XiYen: 3/12/2013 7:46:57 AMThey could viably do some exotic things as well, I don't see Bungie shying away from paper soldiers. :b These Custom mods would have to be exceedingly rare, items of grate worth. I think it would add an interesting struggle point for PvP if a group of players defeats a dungeon, find the blueprint, and then squabble over it, even resorting to violence to determine who gets it (if that's allowed). Like you said, Custom Mods could either be strategic, or they could be fun. Either way, it adds a great mechanic to the game that can drive player interaction (even if it's a bit bloody. ;b)
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Edited by Sir Kenneth: 3/30/2013 3:18:38 AMI agree that shields, energy, discipline, and agility will vary depending on your class choice. Modules or Implants that change your character's statistical abilities is a good idea, and surely is already a part of Destiny. For having each class defined by four simple traits. Personally I think that sounds foolish. When you play a sports game is each position on the field defined by four stats? For example, if FIFA soccer players only had four stats they would all function about the same (agility, ball skills, defense, strength). Same would be if all the characters in Destiny only had four stat bars. You say that a skill tree system which encourages specific goals that offers specific rewards for achieving said goals would not work. Super complicated and would be hard to balance, but offers a much better opportunity for players to feel invested in the characters that they have created. Character investment by the customer does not happen by having shield hunters run around thinking they are miniature Titans. If you honestly think that a system defined by only four variants of class abilities is enough, then I say that you must not be talking about an open world game made by Bungie. If the classes are based around agility, shields, discipline, and energy; each of the four categories rightfully would require extensive skill trees or some matter of personal customization that encourages players to be invested in the characters they have grown attached to.
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[quote]If the classes are based around agility, shields, discipline, and energy; each of the four categories rightfully would require extensive skill trees or some matter of personal customization that encourages players to be invested in the characters they have grown attached to.[/quote]To be fair, there's the class abillities that would help to define a class's role. In my mind, the class abillities are the things that define the core identity of the class, the four stats exists to help modify the class's default gameplay and also to help balance out a class that has a particularly powerful / weak abillity. Trees of customization are definitely possible. The reason I've been emphasizing a more simplistic approach to classes is that from what I've read, Bungie has mentioned that they want Destiny to be enjoyable by all skill levels. Having a customization system that is simple enough for casuals, but deep enough for invested players, seems to be the best (though difficult) way about accomplishing that, and I know that many players are turned away from navigating complicated skill / perk trees. Not to mention, I personally feel it adds a measure of "Invisible Power" and second guessing that I feel shouldn't be emphasized in an action first person shooter. I'm very interested to see how this turns out, only time will tell exactly what Bungie feels is the right balance between simplicity and depth.
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Edited by Sir Kenneth: 3/12/2013 6:56:26 PMBorderlands uses skill trees, and casual gamers surely can figure out how to use their system. I feel as though you are mistaking Bungie saying that they want to appeal to casual gamers for they want to appeal to casual gamers with no problem solving abilities. [quote] Having a customization system that is simple enough for casuals, but deep enough for invested players, seems to be the best (though difficult) way about accomplishing that, and I know that many players are turned away from navigating complicated skill / perk trees.[/quote] What I am arguing is that the extent of the simplicity for your approach would turn away invested gamers more than it would cater to the casual market. Sorry to rain on your parade, but do not be surprised if you are way too far on the simplicity side of the balance between simplicity and depth. Using four skill bars and a few armor abilities has no merit, and this will not be enough to "turn the first person shooter genre on its head again."
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Edited by Hylebos: 3/12/2013 7:17:58 PM[quote]Sorry to rain on your parade, but do not be surprised if you are way too far on the simplicity side of the balance between simplicity and depth.[/quote]There's no need to be sorry, I may very well be thinking about this in an entirely too simplistic way. What sort of things would you expect in these skill / perk trees to add depth to the game?
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Edited by Sir Kenneth: 3/12/2013 8:07:19 PMI wouldn't call them perk trees, because it would sound too relative to CoD. That would however be a decent description of what I am hoping for. The classes will about definitely have separate capabilities that differentiate each class from the others, whether that is through active abilities, such as armor augmentations, or actions that are encouraged by skill sets. So for example the Hunter class, which is going to offer some kind of advantage for sniper rifles. Players will be constantly seeking some way to improve their character's discipline (so they can deal more damage with a snipe). Reward the player for some specific utilization of that discipline, such as headshot ratio. If a Hunter maintains a strong ratio of kills by headshots to kills by body shots, then give that player a reason to focus on maintaining that trend. ie: Hunter gets 80 out of 100 consecutive kills by a headshot, then unlocks a challenge. This challenge is that if the player can get the next 10 kills all by headshots, then he gains some new passive ability upon completion. Such as increased accuracy or damage with snipers, or just with the sniper that he/she used to complete the challenge. This would be a simple two step skill tree that requires a specific task which is based upon something that player (who chose a sniping Hunter) enjoys doing. Players who are invested could focus on completing the task, and casual players who randomly start ripping it up with a snipe might complete it also. Both groups would be doing something that they find to be enjoyable.
