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11/22/2012 2:54:42 PM
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Why is the max amount of accounts the eighth Mersenne prime?

What is so special about this [url=http://www.bungie.net/Account/Profile.aspx?memberID=2147483647]specific number[/url]? Why not 2147483648 maximum accounts? EDIT: Apparently [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2147483647#2147483647_in_computing]this is why[/url]. Also, it would take approximately 1956 years and 202 days at the current rate to reach the current maximum accounts. The limit will be reached at 3967 with the current rate of new accounts. [b]Extra info[/b] The daily average accounts made has dropped (become more accurate) to 596.7875 users per day. [Edited on 11.22.2012 7:05 AM PST]
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  • Is anything you all are saying food? Cause it's making me hungry, I could use food.
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  • I have learned so much because of this thread and wikipedia. I think I spent about an hour just reading stuff.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Domi 233[/quote]The concern (AFAIK) isn't with the OS or the computer's architecture, but rather the data types that have been used to represent a UNIX timestamp within the application. Unfortunately there are devices which contain software that cannot be upgraded, especially those with embedded systems (microwaves, calculators, car subsystems, etc...). As far as using unsigned types, they will work, but since UNIX time is measured as the number of seconds from the 1st of January, 1970 (referred to as the epoch), [url=http://ideone.com/GF3K61]any times before then are represented as negative numbers[/url]. Of course, you could alter the epoch to encompass more... relevant dates, but at the cost of interoperability with other systems (which would be a huge problem in regard to web services where UNIX timestamps are often used).
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Bungie Sam [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] lVl e r c u r y Wait, Bnet is getting 600 new accounts per day? That doesn't sound right...[/quote]You'd be surprised. That's an average made from recordings since last October. Roughly 376 accounts have been made in the last 24 hours.[/quote]I want everyone who makes these accounts to say hi to us on the forums. IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK[/quote]This is truly epic, we need more people actually active.
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  • Will the large majority of computers not have moved past 32 bit OSs by the year 2038? Or just use a uint for a few more years of safety. But a 64 bit int, signed, should last until the year 292,471,210,647, which is probably long enough, isn't it? I'm not sure of all the complexities, but simply doubling the size of the value used to store the time would seem to completly solve the problem. Of course, this might be complicated slightly by the fact that you need to do it to EVERY COMPUTER EVERYWHERE. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Muzza777 What I gathered from the post made by Achronos is that Bungie.next will not be building on the current website scaffold but will be an entire new one possibly made by Bungie themselves.[/quote]Could be why it has taken such a long time, if they are rebuilding everything from the ground up. [Edited on 11.25.2012 12:38 AM PST]
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  • I was not even aware of the 2038 thing. So I learned something today, and its awesome this site can still do that for me. Also, good to hear something about the .next, from the source. [Edited on 11.24.2012 8:49 PM PST]
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  • What I gathered from the post made by Achronos is that Bungie.next will not be building on the current website scaffold but will be an entire new one possibly made by Bungie themselves.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Bungie Sam [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] defnop552 So what happens when it reaches that number? Do new members get deleted account numbers?[/quote]Bungie.net won't [i]be here[/i] in the year 3967. Nobody will.[/quote]Challenge accepted. Thread saved.
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  • These kinds of threads make me feel stupid.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CaptKrunch 96 My head hurts.[/quote]I was never much for Mersenne primes myself.
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  • My head hurts.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos Bungie.net's database (and most of its application code) define a user id as a SQL bigint (a signed 64-bit integer). It is signed because sql doesn't natively understand unsigned numbers, and constantly casting it is annoying. However, in the forum software (which was not written by us, just heavily modified by us) defines member ids as SQL ints (signed 32-bit integers). As it was originally created to have its own member database, it is kind of bolted onto our system (which is why you have two ids - when you see "memberID" in the URL, you're using the forum one). One of the many things changing when bungie.next comes along is that silly complexity.[/quote] Since you guys heavily modified the code for the Bungie.net forums from an existing code written by someone else, is the code for Bungie.next nearly written from scratch or is it just another modification (albeit a greater one) to the modified code you have already defined.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] catman6 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos which is why you have two ids - when you see "memberID" in the URL, you're using the forum one[/quote]What is the second ID. Is it our unique username?[/quote] The second id would be the the 64 bit signed version of your member id. It's used for querying the database for whatever data is linked to that ID.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos Bungie.net's database (and most of its application code) define a user id as a SQL bigint (a signed 64-bit integer). It is signed because sql doesn't natively understand unsigned numbers, and constantly casting it is annoying. However, in the forum software (which was not written by us, just heavily modified by us) defines member ids as SQL ints (signed 32-bit integers). As it was originally created to have its own member database, it is kind of bolted onto our system (which is why you have two ids - when you see "memberID" in the URL, you're using the forum one). One of the many things changing when bungie.next comes along is that silly complexity.[/quote] the database should use bigot for that kind of thing. It is a type that will change form based on its own flawed beliefs.
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  • That's pretty interesting, I never knew about that, or rather, never realized.
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  • **Does not computes**
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Bungie Sam [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] lVl e r c u r y Wait, Bnet is getting 600 new accounts per day? That doesn't sound right...[/quote]You'd be surprised. That's an average made from recordings since last October. Roughly 376 accounts have been made in the last 24 hours.[/quote]I want everyone who makes these accounts to say hi to us on the forums. IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK[/quote]Clearly it is.
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  • Imagine if the science behind this followed Bungie's and the community's obsession of the number 7. There would only be 524287 maximum accounts permissible before problems would occur. [Edited on 11.23.2012 3:01 AM PST]
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos Bungie.net's database (and most of its application code) define a user id as a SQL bigint (a signed 64-bit integer). It is signed because sql doesn't natively understand unsigned numbers, and constantly casting it is annoying. However, in the forum software (which was not written by us, just heavily modified by us) defines member ids as SQL ints (signed 32-bit integers). As it was originally created to have its own member database, it is kind of bolted onto our system (which is why you have two ids - when you see "memberID" in the URL, you're using the forum one). One of the many things changing when bungie.next comes along is that silly complexity.[/quote]Before you figure out what happens when we get up to 2 shmillion members on the site in the year 3057 and it all breaks, can we have a working search bar? plzndthx. ©
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos which is why you have two ids - when you see "memberID" in the URL, you're using the forum one[/quote]What is the second ID. Is it our unique username?
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  • Bungie.net's database (and most of its application code) define a user id as a SQL bigint (a signed 64-bit integer). It is signed because sql doesn't natively understand unsigned numbers, and constantly casting it is annoying. However, in the forum software (which was not written by us, just heavily modified by us) defines member ids as SQL ints (signed 32-bit integers). As it was originally created to have its own member database, it is kind of bolted onto our system (which is why you have two ids - when you see "memberID" in the URL, you're using the forum one). One of the many things changing when bungie.next comes along is that silly complexity.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] dazarobbo [url=http://ideone.com/mpS9U7]It's not like C++ where bits rollover[/url], which is going to be a problem in the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem]year 2038[/url]. Interestingly, [url=http://techcrunch.com/2009/06/12/all-hell-may-break-loose-on-twitter-in-2-hours/]Twitter also faced this problem a few years ago[/url] too.[/quote]So basically the world will end. Sweet. Way to destroy the world, daza. I always knew it'd be an Australian who did it. ©
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  • I feel bad cause I knew the answer but didn't get to answer. I'm going to go cry now, bye.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] funkbrotha10 Int32[/quote].NET defines that, but SQL Server does not. It is only int. Although that raises another interesting point. The reason you might end up on a dedicated error page after specifically requesting it through your browser is probably because each profile is defined as having an System.Int32 as the memberID [i]in the application logic[/i] (ASP.NET codebehinds/DLLs). So (if and when) validation being preformed in there on the memberID after being pulled from the GET line is unsuccessful in parsing it to a .NET Int32, it would be more efficient to fail early then and there without touching the database. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] defnop552 So what happens when it reaches that number? Do new members get deleted account numbers?[/quote]After someone tried to sign up, they would likely end up on one of the dedicated error pages like the one Iggy linked, or the Database Exception one. Accounts wouldn't be deleted or overwritten since when the field set to increment (IDENTITY) reaches its max value (2^31 - 1 in this case) + 1, the INSERT statement would throw an exception back to client application (which is how you'd end up on an error page). This is more likely if the INSERT takes place within a transaction as well. [url=http://ideone.com/mpS9U7]It's not like C++ where bits rollover[/url], which is going to be a problem in the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem]year 2038[/url]. Interestingly, [url=http://techcrunch.com/2009/06/12/all-hell-may-break-loose-on-twitter-in-2-hours/]Twitter also faced this problem a few years ago[/url] too.
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  • As you can see, this link produces erroneous results. [url=http://www.bungie.net/Account/Profile.aspx?memberID=2147483648]One member ID too much[/url] Most likely an overflow and/or parsing error. [Edited on 11.22.2012 5:38 PM PST]
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] defnop552 So what happens when it reaches that number? Do new members get deleted account numbers?[/quote]Bungie.net won't [i]be here[/i] in the year 3967. Nobody will.
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