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11/16/2012 2:59:19 AM
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My take on Halo 4 multiplayer

So I just copy/pasted a bunch of my posts from multiple threads... didn't feel like summarizing (with detail) everything all over again. This stuff mostly has to do with Sprint, instant respawns, and ordinance drops. Other miscellaneous analysis scattered throughout, as well. Also, I am editing this OP to add in everything I say in replies to rebuttals, even within this thread. [quote]But I will tell you what's exciting. It's exciting to know that if you die, you will wait 3 seconds before you spawn. If you die, you are giving your opponent the chance to grab weapons, to create a counter offensive in an objective based game, to seize control of the map and effectively make it harder for your teammates, whom are now down to 3 players as you are still spawning, to keep a cool and stay alive. What matters is that you're dead, and your teammates need you more than ever because of this.[/quote] [quote]sprinting slows down the game and is a "Casual mechanic." People will try to sprint away from aggressors whom they believe have an advantage over them (either because they've had the first shot, you're screwing up, or they've caught you by surprise, etc). So in the end you try and escape - you try and prolong the inevitable. Sprint slows down the game in this sense. Sprint would also be completely stupid to use as an offensive method. Rushing into the enemy won't give you any sort of advantage. It'll get you killed. There's a higher chance the opponent has an ally next to him. Not only that but when you sprint you're offense-less and in most cases, especially in gametypes with radar, you will get shot first as you sprint. Sprint is a horribad addition to the series. Also, AA are most definitely not substitutes for Halo 3's equipment. You had to grab the equipment from its spawn area. Here you spawn every time with some ability. Two different things.[/quote] _ [quote]Weapons don't spawn on map and only at the beginning with signs telling you where they are for everyone. Ordinance drops rewards players. Not only that but it creates randomness and chaotic matches. Map control becomes irrelevant at this point. Sprint for the casuals as well. Armor abilities, you know the deal: they need to be eliminated.[/quote] _ [quote]Also, the incentive for teamwork is to win a match, not to scrap "points." This is some superficial aspect forced on Halo since Reach (with all the glorifying of medals and -blam!-). Selfish ambition doesn't always equate to mutual efforts. In fact it really is the other way around, encouraging players to do things on their own in pursuit of personal satisfaction. Winning? Who cares about winning in Halo 4? All you need to do to advance is to play.[/quote] _ [quote]the new game design since reach has encouraged players to give their teammates the middle finger when asked to play cooperatively. I remember saying this in a thread about hating Halo 4 if you disliked Halo Reach. It's so sad. Halo 4 went even further into this direction. As a long time admirer of Halo, I can't help but say that I was right at the time, and that I am right today. Halo 4 has the potential to be good, just like the review said. It just needs to take away and/or severely tweak these new game designs. Ordnance drops...instant respawns...no weapon spawns....armor abilities. People who think this is good don't know what Halo was and why it was praised.[/quote] - [quote]Revisit Halo 2 to check on that run speed. There's an unnoticeable difference. I don't even think it's faster than CE's, and if it's faster than 3's, barely. And that's not enough to warrant some incredibly game changing mechanic like sprint. (Honestly it just doesn't belong in this series). And what genre are you trying to take Halo as? It's a motherucking FPS. You don't need to be next to the opponent to be "in the action." You spawn at Banshee on Ascension and you are visible from both towers of the map. That's the great thing about Halo multiplayer. The maps are well designed in that you take advantage of its layout and what's in it. Constantly engaged, but constantly just arms length away from protection. Sprint is totally unnecessary.[/quote] - [quote]Sprint increases the pace of the game, meaning that things are happening very quickly. "Rushing" occurs very often (run-and-gun). People are constantly heading in and out of battle and things are chaotic. That's what I mean by fast. The sense of slowing down is in the case of chasing/dueling. Solid dueling encounters (better man wins scenarios) are less frequent and kills in this regard are prolonged. Without sprint, the pace of the game is slower. Coordination as a team becomes more prevalent and engagements are a steady pace.[/quote] - [quote]What people don't seem to understand about what made Halo Halo was the fact that everything was a fight. With regards to AA's, these are not found in the map to be picked up and used by the player. In stead, you are free to use it at almost any time at will to give yourself an advantage over your opponent - this is, to the very core, unfair. What would make it different is that you had to fight for that advantage. In Halo 3 you had equipment scattered in various maps such as bubble shield, or power drainer, or regenerators. Yes, if you have them, you have an offensive or defense advantage, depending on what you picked up. But what must be understood here is that that piece of equipment wasn't given to you, it was fought over by you and your opponent (generic case). You both have equal opportunity. It's the showdown of personal skill and/or team work. Assessment of the map and grabbing the upper hand is all in the process. That's the skill and hence the balance that makes Halo as a FPS triumph.[/quote] P.S: I have just bought the game today and finished playng 6 hours worth of multiplayer. Everything I said stands even truer now :( [url=http://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst145303_My--ongoing--take-on-Halo-4-multiplayer.aspx]The waypoint copy[/url] which is getting positive comments, too. [Edited on 11.19.2012 3:49 PM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] jondoe4362 The gun, grenade, melee, play is very solid IMO though.[/quote] I agree with this 100% (besides my opinion that I dislike the large hitboxes). This is why Halo 4 has potential to be great, and that's why there's hope if 343I [i]is[/i] taking these community analyses into consideration

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  • Kindof agree with OP. Fighting for weapons and equipment and map control was what made halo halo. 4 is still much much better than reach and I enjoy the multiplayer alot but it really does just feel like a colorful COD with shields at this point. Not that that isn't fun, just it seems to take away the entire cooperative element. Also is it just me or are the vehicles weak as hell? I seem to remember explosives being needed to take down a tank. The gun, grenade, melee, play is very solid IMO though. [Edited on 11.19.2012 9:07 PM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DeathSkills My only complaint is that you cant invert the flying controls[/quote] That BURNED me, you don't know how many times I crashed into walls when I trid to just have an epic flight to stop the destruction of earth.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Phoenix2640 because we all need inverted controlls for the Banshe... bring back the falcon and im on your side. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DeathSkills My only complaint is that you cant invert the flying controls[/quote][/quote] It would have been pretty boss if we could have the privilege to fly pelicans and phantoms. Customs, at least

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  • I for one, am thoroughly enjoying Halo 4, much more than I thought I ever would.

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  • i think that the power ups in reach were just about too much i think thats when they start to overcomplicate an already good game with armour lock i think sprint was a good idea but none of the others - obviously active camo would be a power up like a weapon spawn as in halo 2 /3 reach - mlg i know halo 4 wil not be changed into a different game which is slightly sad mayb i will have a quick go now and again - its not a bad game but i will definatly not be spending hours and hours without getting bored like on the other games :P

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  • because we all need inverted controlls for the Banshe... bring back the falcon and im on your side. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DeathSkills My only complaint is that you cant invert the flying controls[/quote]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] i D0pE FEiND i despite the possibly best graphics on an xbox game or any game i have seen is halo 4 really what its made out to be? Personally i would say no after reaching only SR 41 i have already returned to reach. I think that 343 have over complicated a series of games which their simplicity made them what they were. H4 definately does not take as much skill to play and i think to an extent maybe this was 343's intention because u know all non halo players rage hard at halo as they will just get raped on any of the other halo games. 343 have missed a huge trick bringing in the classic playlists such as double team - a personal fav and team snipers just another little thing :/ The instant respawn system is retarded could possibly be the worst thing about H4 as the game becomes more running in randomly and not bothering about dieing - the game is less tactical On top of all of this i think the new weapons are a different take on a halo game where power weapons seem less vital because they are almost always available. The air drops or whatever they are not halo at all. To sum up i dont think 343 have made a bad game its just not the halo we have loved for all these years....the graphics are good and the campaign i have to say was very good. But lets be honest for any old school player were 343 every going to live up to the likes of halo 2? NOT EVEN CLOSE I will continue to play reach not as some sort of statement but as i enjoy the more competitive side of the gameplay in my opinion - i know im not alone. im not sure why 343 or bungie doesnt listen to the fans and just make a game similar to the likes of halo 2/3 simples. [/quote] Basically, yeah. I haven't played campaign yet (waiting for my bro to come home) so I will deal with that later. Halo 4 on its own is a fine game, but as a Halo game it's a disaster. Here's a post I made on this same thread but from Waypoint: [quote]I believe that the devs should have capitalized on the new things that were well incorporated into sequels. What I believe should have been done for Halo 4 (in fact it should have started with Halo Reach), so as to not jumble the true design of Halo multiplayer, is to have continued with small changes, nothing too experimental like Reach has done and now Halo 4. In stead of making big hallmark changes, they should have simply built upon the changes made in Halo 3. The use of equipment is the first thing that comes to mind. This was a subtle yet big change in game design, consequently providing a whole new dimension to Halo multiplayer, yet it didn't stray from classic design. I mean i'm not going to try and brainstorm for who knows how long in order to bring up ideas for new multiplayer designs, but here some ideas that come to mind pretty quickly: Mixing and matching can be a fun and safe experiment to test new multiplayer design. Exemplary new multiplayer: - Faster base run speed and jump height (Halo CE's levels) Pick-up equipment - new, balanced types. Think of armor abilities. Pick them up for a one time, strategical use. Juice for one round jetpack, one hologram, etc - Power Ups (which by the way were introduced in Halo 1) on the map for limited time use, include overshield, invisibility, and perhaps maybe increased movement speed, etc - Fast kill times (Halo 4 levels are fun, I must admit. I enjoy the fire rates of the rifles) - Maybe even add interactive environments. IF you remember in Halo 3's Standoff, you could activate the base to open up the windows and "security" doors to allow an extra entrance into and out of the base. This was an awesome addition to the series, it would be freaking sweet if Bungie/343 had expanded on this. Creativity is needed here to continue on. But you get the idea, hopefully. So this was just a 20 minute quick brainstorm of some new and existing ideas formulated into one design. By no means is this "definitive." I'm just trying to prove a point, here.[/quote]

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  • despite the possibly best graphics on an xbox game or any game i have seen is halo 4 really what its made out to be? Personally i would say no after reaching only SR 41 i have already returned to reach. I think that 343 have over complicated a series of games which their simplicity made them what they were. H4 definately does not take as much skill to play and i think to an extent maybe this was 343's intention because u know all non halo players rage hard at halo as they will just get raped on any of the other halo games. 343 have missed a huge trick bringing in the classic playlists such as double team - a personal fav and team snipers just another little thing :/ The instant respawn system is retarded could possibly be the worst thing about H4 as the game becomes more running in randomly and not bothering about dieing - the game is less tactical On top of all of this i think the new weapons are a different take on a halo game where power weapons seem less vital because they are almost always available. The air drops or whatever they are not halo at all. To sum up i dont think 343 have made a bad game its just not the halo we have loved for all these years....the graphics are good and the campaign i have to say was very good. But lets be honest for any old school player were 343 every going to live up to the likes of halo 2? NOT EVEN CLOSE I will continue to play reach not as some sort of statement but as i enjoy the more competitive side of the gameplay in my opinion - i know im not alone. im not sure why 343 or bungie doesnt listen to the fans and just make a game similar to the likes of halo 2/3 simples. [Edited on 11.19.2012 4:42 PM PST]

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  • IN MY OPINION (after a few days of playing): Multiplayer: Halo 3 > Halo 4 > Halo Reach Story Gameplay: Halo 3 > Halo Reach > Halo 4 Forge: Halo Reach > Halo 3 > Halo 4 Custom Games: Halo 3 > Halo Reach > Halo 4 Overall the multiplayer has been alright. It's a little too favorable toward vehicles which I've found kind of irritating but the overall gameplay is better than I expected. JiP was a horrible thing to put in and I've experienced many negatives from it, especially inconsistencies with my own team. I also dislike the press X to respawn as I can just respawn right away and run with the sprint (which I will address) to where I was killed and get revenge. Sprinting honestly is unneeded in my opinion, I find myself not sprinting because it feels so much more like Halo 3 without it and it just feels like cheating when I run away from getting killed as I would have died without sprint (I probably would be dying 10 times per game rather than the 5 times I'm dying). I've only used Promethean vision and I'm glad they balanced out the armor ability and it has it's usefulness at times. Overall I'd give the multiplayer a 7/10 with Halo 3's being a 9.5/10 and Halo Reach's being a 5.5/10.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Bryanesie I like it. /opinion[/quote]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Bryanesie I like it. /opinion[/quote] Cool story bro

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  • I like it. /opinion

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  • bump?

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Arbiter 739 I've read through too many of these kinds of complaints. Because of that I read your thread only checking to see if I agree. And I do, though I have additional complaints. [/quote] Share them!

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  • I've read through too many of these kinds of complaints. Because of that I read your thread only checking to see if I agree. And I do, though I have additional complaints.

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  • Yet another multiplayer review based mostly on Infinity Slayer...

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DABLASTER 6 This is a bungie forum why even talk about halo 4 here. [/quote] This is an off topic forum.

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  • 0
    DABLASTER 6
    DABLASTER 6

    Why does Rise of Iron cost money? - old

    This is a bungie forum why even talk about halo 4 here.

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  • So I bought the game today and played 6 hours of matchmaking. My thoughts hold even truer than ever now.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] The Cow goes Moo [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ben2974 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BF117HALO My only complaints are that it gets EXTREMELY frustrating at times, for example duelling system, there are so many duels that I should've won, and the amount of 1-hit-kill weapons there are are close range.[/quote] What? lol[/quote]You really want a hot topic this badly?[/quote] And no I really don't get what he's trying to say.

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  • Skipping to the AA's since I gave a paragraph response to the user prior: What people don't seem to understand about what made Halo Halo was the fact that everything was a fight. With regards to AA's, these are not found in the map to be picked up and used by the player. In stead, you are free to use it at almost any time at will to give yourself an advantage over your opponent - this is, to the very core, unfair. What would make it different is that you had to [i]fight[/i] for that advantage. In Halo 3 you had equipment scattered in various maps such as bubble shield, or power drainer, or regenerators. Yes, if you have them, you have an offensive or defense advantage, depending on what you picked up. But what must be understood here is that that piece of equipment wasn't given to you, it was fought over by you and your opponent (generic case). You both have equal opportunity. It's the showdown of personal skill and/or team work. Assessment of the map and grabbing the upper hand is all in the process. That's the skill and hence the balance that makes Halo as a FPS triumph. BTW this is in response to Plasma [Edited on 11.16.2012 9:14 PM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DeathSkills My only complaint is that you cant invert the flying controls[/quote] Yes you can. It was one of the first things I did.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jacoby04 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ben2974 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mustererboys I personally liked how halo 4 is going, it changes alot but still retains the base "halo" feel like i said, this is my opinion, and if you disagree, there's no need to be stupid about it. btw sprint is slowed down to a bit less than walking speed when you're shot. so slowing down the game really isn't that bad. and don't insta spawns speed up the game?[/quote] Why is it that people think faster gameplay is always better gameplay? Very bizarre.[/quote] I agree. One of my biggest complaints on Halo 4 is that the gameplay is too fast. It just feels like a constant GO! GO! GO! game. This may work for some games, but I dislike it in Halo. Halo is not about running in as quick as you can and killing/dying super-fast. It is about the intense gameplay that results from map-control, skill-based gunplay, and balance.[/quote] Exactly. This kind of gameplay isn't what Halo is about.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] brady727 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ben2974 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mustererboys I personally liked how halo 4 is going, it changes alot but still retains the base "halo" feel like i said, this is my opinion, and if you disagree, there's no need to be stupid about it. btw sprint is slowed down to a bit less than walking speed when you're shot. so slowing down the game really isn't that bad. and don't insta spawns speed up the game?[/quote] Why is it that people think faster gameplay is always better gameplay? Very bizarre.[/quote]In your post you said sprint slowed down gameplay, this was a complaint, then you say you don't understand how faster gameplay is better. Make up your damn mind.[/quote] Sprint increases the pace of the game, meaning that things are happening very quickly. "Rushing" occurs very often (run-and-gun). People are constantly heading in and out of battle and things are chaotic. That's what I mean by fast. The sense of slowing down is in the case of chasing/dueling. Solid dueling encounters (better man wins scenarios) are less frequent and kills in this regard are prolonged. Without sprint, the pace of the game is slower. Coordination as a team becomes more prevalent and engagements are a steady pace.

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  • Sprint: This may slow down the game in the context you're describing, however, you fail to recognize two important factors: 1) It is not the only context. Sprint allows players to get to the battles/objectives more quickly, and this is rather indisputable. 2) In the hypothetical you gave, wherein someone who has an apparent disadvantage can flee, the end result--without sprint--is death. Halo has been built upon the idea that if you have superior skill in a battle, you will win. Especially in Halo 4, Sprint--with its significant slowdown when taking damage--is not something that causes a superior player to lose. AAs: AAs, unlike equipment, have pros and cons to their use. Equipment had virtually no cons, but needed to be picked up. AAs, on the other hand, give you an advantage but leave you vulnerable in some way when using them. With jetpack, it's your exposure, with Hardlight shield, it's your inability to fight back, and with Promothean vision, it's your reduced awareness of your immediate surroundings and, again, exposure. Also, to make the assertion that those who like these elements don't know what Halo is or what it was praised for is rather insulting and takes away from your argument.

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