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11/8/2012 1:43:00 AM
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The Didact (spoilers)
For those of you who've read the forerunner books. Whats the theories on which Didact was in halo 4?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh Though I'm pretty sure the Didact hasn't been killed, just defeated.[/quote] [quote][i]No one is dead unless they die on screen[/i][/quote] I always apply that to main characters; the Didact wasn't given a proper death "scene" and Cortana is probably in the domain.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka Is the entire story based on the Precursor master plan to force/manipulate beings into transcendence by threatening them with the Flood?[/quote] I love this thought. More than any other. Its bigger than what I was expecting to learn (what happens when forerunner meet humanity again / what happens when halsey meets librarian). Cuz of course I like you feel that this didact is way more reactionary and less pragmatic and stern than the one we met in the book. The one I thought would meet the chief and be like "I see you player"
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Old Salty27 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Old Salty27 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] flamedude I still don't get why the Didact reacted the way he did immediately after emerging from his prison. Instead of taking stock of the situation he immediately took over the Prometheans (using convenient space magic), got the Covenant onboard and then went straight off to the Composer to compose the humans on Earth. I'm just not sure why..... I never got the impression that he was petty and vain in the books, or that he'd ever resort to something as base and subjective as revenge. It's quite a frustrating way to tell a story I think, with a conveniently unstoppable and all-knowing enemy with a motive that is hard to understand or comprehend.[/quote] He's finishing what he started so when the Flood return, they will be ready for them this time. Plus, if he knows the Precursors threatened Forerunners with destruction to be replaced by Mankind, he wouldn't take kindly to that knowledge.[/quote] Maybe. I get the feeling Humanity's test already happened in Halo 3 when Chief took out the Gravemind and as far as we know most of the Flood on the Ark. The Precursors themselves may show up. That could be the reasoning for Didact wanting to build up an army by composing humanity. I get the feeling had Didact been successful and the Precursors did show up, I don't think they'd be all to happy that the race that tried to wipe them out and take the Mantle from them composed their heirs and turned them into machines to fight them. Such an act could very well doom the entire galaxy; both races the Precursors created are for the most part extinct, they'd probably unleash the Flood to wipe the slate clean and start "creation" all over again.[/quote] The Flood in Halo's 1-3 were an accident, and a very small infestation that resulted in captured flood cells in Forerunner labs. It wasn't a deliberate invasion started by the Precursors. Our test has yet to take place.[/quote] At this point there is no way to be sure until Halo 5 or the next Forerunner novel comes out. It's kind of annoying. I was hoping we'd get more information on the whole Precursor plan or a least hints of it in Halo 4. 343 left the ending very open ended; Did Didact survive his fall into the Composer's slip space event? Is he the last Forerunner or are the others on the Greater Ark outside the galaxy? Why is Didact so hell bent on thinking Humanity is the greatest threat in the galaxy? We didn't get a lot to go on regarding these questions.[/quote]Find out next time in Dragonball Z! [Edited on 11.21.2012 2:51 PM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Old Salty27 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] flamedude I still don't get why the Didact reacted the way he did immediately after emerging from his prison. Instead of taking stock of the situation he immediately took over the Prometheans (using convenient space magic), got the Covenant onboard and then went straight off to the Composer to compose the humans on Earth. I'm just not sure why..... I never got the impression that he was petty and vain in the books, or that he'd ever resort to something as base and subjective as revenge. It's quite a frustrating way to tell a story I think, with a conveniently unstoppable and all-knowing enemy with a motive that is hard to understand or comprehend.[/quote] He's finishing what he started so when the Flood return, they will be ready for them this time. Plus, if he knows the Precursors threatened Forerunners with destruction to be replaced by Mankind, he wouldn't take kindly to that knowledge.[/quote] Maybe. I get the feeling Humanity's test already happened in Halo 3 when Chief took out the Gravemind and as far as we know most of the Flood on the Ark. The Precursors themselves may show up. That could be the reasoning for Didact wanting to build up an army by composing humanity. I get the feeling had Didact been successful and the Precursors did show up, I don't think they'd be all to happy that the race that tried to wipe them out and take the Mantle from them composed their heirs and turned them into machines to fight them. Such an act could very well doom the entire galaxy; both races the Precursors created are for the most part extinct, they'd probably unleash the Flood to wipe the slate clean and start "creation" all over again.[/quote] The Flood in Halo's 1-3 were an accident, and a very small infestation that resulted in captured flood cells in Forerunner labs. It wasn't a deliberate invasion started by the Precursors. Our test has yet to take place.[/quote] At this point there is no way to be sure until Halo 5 or the next Forerunner novel comes out. It's kind of annoying. I was hoping we'd get more information on the whole Precursor plan or a least hints of it in Halo 4. 343 left the ending very open ended; Did Didact survive his fall into the Composer's slip space event? Is he the last Forerunner or are the others on the Greater Ark outside the galaxy? Why is Didact so hell bent on thinking Humanity is the greatest threat in the galaxy? We didn't get a lot to go on regarding these questions.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Old Salty27 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] flamedude I still don't get why the Didact reacted the way he did immediately after emerging from his prison. Instead of taking stock of the situation he immediately took over the Prometheans (using convenient space magic), got the Covenant onboard and then went straight off to the Composer to compose the humans on Earth. I'm just not sure why..... I never got the impression that he was petty and vain in the books, or that he'd ever resort to something as base and subjective as revenge. It's quite a frustrating way to tell a story I think, with a conveniently unstoppable and all-knowing enemy with a motive that is hard to understand or comprehend.[/quote] He's finishing what he started so when the Flood return, they will be ready for them this time. Plus, if he knows the Precursors threatened Forerunners with destruction to be replaced by Mankind, he wouldn't take kindly to that knowledge.[/quote] Maybe. I get the feeling Humanity's test already happened in Halo 3 when Chief took out the Gravemind and as far as we know most of the Flood on the Ark. The Precursors themselves may show up. That could be the reasoning for Didact wanting to build up an army by composing humanity. I get the feeling had Didact been successful and the Precursors did show up, I don't think they'd be all to happy that the race that tried to wipe them out and take the Mantle from them composed their heirs and turned them into machines to fight them. Such an act could very well doom the entire galaxy; both races the Precursors created are for the most part extinct, they'd probably unleash the Flood to wipe the slate clean and start "creation" all over again.[/quote] The Flood in Halo's 1-3 were an accident, and a very small infestation that resulted in captured flood cells in Forerunner labs. It wasn't a deliberate invasion started by the Precursors. Our test has yet to take place.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] dibbs089 How odd that both the Forerunner and the Committee of Minds for Security came to the conclusion that the evolution of life from solely biological to an A.I. / biological hybrid is a necessary evolutionary step in order to survive. Is this the logical end of evolution that all technologically advanced species inevitably discover, or perhaps a geas imposed upon all life in the galaxy - or all life in general? [u]Odder still is that this evolutionary jump essentially negates the dangers of the Flood. #1[/u] [u] get the feeling that there's a much larger story involved (wheels within wheels to borrow a Halo reference). #2[/u][/quote]Underlined: #1: Thought so too. It's not like the Forerunners ar certain that the Flood will suddenly ignore them if they trancend. Even if the Forerunner retreat into the Domain; become digital or whatever, what's to say that the Flood won't find a way to ruin it for them if they consume the galaxy? Is the entire story based on the Precursor master plan to force/manipulate beings into transcendence by threatening them with the Flood? #2: I hope it's not, it's stumbling on its own feet as it is, struggling with redefining the old plots and lore whilst adding and prolonging, etc. If it gets even more complicated, it'll collapse under its own weight. Nice to see that someone remembers Iris, that's not common here. Kind of off topic: I think it's really really sad that the core story of Halo now has the same plot as Mass Effect. [i]A cycle sett off by a god-like race, an ancient race--created by mentioned god-like race--who defies them and sets off a slowly brewing plan to stop the cycle, the plot surrounds the debate between organic and synthetic (where it boiled over for me), an array of title related super machines capable of affecting an entire galaxy.[/i] [Edited on 11.21.2012 9:11 AM PST]
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I did feel that Didact's turn towards being a douche was a bit disjointed and not very well explained, especially in regards to resorting to using the composer. He knew the composer was flawed; the process fractured the composed's minds creating abominations, a process he used on his own soldiers knowing what it would do to them. Then he targets what at the time was a completely helpless humanity. Sure, he blamed them for bringing the Flood to the Forerunner's doorstep, but realistically nothing short of the Arrays would have ever stopped them. Add to that, technically the Humans were protecting the Forerunner's and everything else from the Flood, by sterilizing infected planets. Didact at the time of resorting to the composer knew all of this. Nothing about his attitude towards Humanity is logical, unless of course he just plain went crazy.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] flamedude I still don't get why the Didact reacted the way he did immediately after emerging from his prison. Instead of taking stock of the situation he immediately took over the Prometheans (using convenient space magic), got the Covenant onboard and then went straight off to the Composer to compose the humans on Earth. I'm just not sure why..... I never got the impression that he was petty and vain in the books, or that he'd ever resort to something as base and subjective as revenge. It's quite a frustrating way to tell a story I think, with a conveniently unstoppable and all-knowing enemy with a motive that is hard to understand or comprehend.[/quote] He's finishing what he started so when the Flood return, they will be ready for them this time. Plus, if he knows the Precursors threatened Forerunners with destruction to be replaced by Mankind, he wouldn't take kindly to that knowledge.[/quote] Maybe. I get the feeling Humanity's test already happened in Halo 3 when Chief took out the Gravemind and as far as we know most of the Flood on the Ark. The Precursors themselves may show up. That could be the reasoning for Didact wanting to build up an army by composing humanity. I get the feeling had Didact been successful and the Precursors did show up, I don't think they'd be all to happy that the race that tried to wipe them out and take the Mantle from them composed their heirs and turned them into machines to fight them. Such an act could very well doom the entire galaxy; both races the Precursors created are for the most part extinct, they'd probably unleash the Flood to wipe the slate clean and start "creation" all over again.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] flamedude I still don't get why the Didact reacted the way he did immediately after emerging from his prison. Instead of taking stock of the situation he immediately took over the Prometheans (using convenient space magic), got the Covenant onboard and then went straight off to the Composer to compose the humans on Earth. I'm just not sure why..... I never got the impression that he was petty and vain in the books, or that he'd ever resort to something as base and subjective as revenge. It's quite a frustrating way to tell a story I think, with a conveniently unstoppable and all-knowing enemy with a motive that is hard to understand or comprehend.[/quote] He's finishing what he started so when the Flood return, they will be ready for them this time. Plus, if he knows the Precursors threatened Forerunners with destruction to be replaced by Mankind, he wouldn't take kindly to that knowledge.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka [i]"In the Forerunner's quest for transendence, the Composer had been intended to bridge the organic and digital realms; it would have made us immortal, but its results soured, the stored personalities fragmented and our attemps to restore them to biological states created only abominations. Such moral concerns faded from the Didacts attention. The Flood only assimilated living tissue, the Composer would allow the Didact his solution, and his revenge."[/i] ~ The Librarian Would this clear up why the Didact suddenly became [i]evil[/i]?[/quote]How odd that both the Forerunner and the Committee of Minds for Security came to the conclusion that the evolution of life from solely biological to an A.I. / biological hybrid is a necessary evolutionary step in order to survive. Is this the logical end of evolution that all technologically advanced species inevitably discover, or perhaps a geas imposed upon all life in the galaxy - or all life in general? Odder still is that this evolutionary jump essentially negates the dangers of the Flood. I get the feeling that there's a much larger story involved (wheels within wheels to borrow a Halo reference). [Edited on 11.21.2012 1:58 AM PST]
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I still don't get why the Didact reacted the way he did immediately after emerging from his prison. Instead of taking stock of the situation he immediately took over the Prometheans (using convenient space magic), got the Covenant onboard and then went straight off to the Composer to compose the humans on Earth. I'm just not sure why..... I never got the impression that he was petty and vain in the books, or that he'd ever resort to something as base and subjective as revenge. It's quite a frustrating way to tell a story I think, with a conveniently unstoppable and all-knowing enemy with a motive that is hard to understand or comprehend.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 [/quote]I'm gonna need you to switch back to your old avatar ajw. Thanks pumpkin.
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Ok so after watching all the cutscenes again on youtube as well as all the terminals and reading this thread here is what I'm understanding (and I'd love to see some timeline/summaries reflected in the wikis): the didact changed when he tried to augment, and became way more vampire looking as a result of his attempt to get immunity from the flood. The didact in the council is way different looking than the one that got imprisoned. he is fundamentally jealous/unaccepting of what the librarian believes, that humanity was on their way to surpassing forerunner. his bid to not have to use the halo solution was his desparate play at 'keeping his jerb'. the whole plan to create prometheans started with making use of the finest warriors (are these same as war sphinxes from the books) but grew into his solution to fight the flood. compose organic warriors into prometheans so the flood cant change them. Smart actually. Of course, he is the -blam!- that went and got the devolved humans off the rings to do it. The plot of halo 4 is centered around stopping the didact from composing the rest of humanity, into more prometheans. Why does he want to do that? To prepare for a later battle against the primordial? To continue to punish/eradicate humans from usurping (not that much diff from the prophets' motivations) the forerunner? Striking out against his wife for choosing the humans as well? As for the composer -- why didn't cortana use it to do the reverse? download herself to human form. trade intelligence level for stability and longer life? What did the forerunner build the composer for in the first place? terminals show stuff way before the forerunner books right? so the story between didact/humans/librarian is all that happened before chakas and riser and bornstellar awoke him? seems to be right except she put him on requim versus on the earth where bornstellar found him. hmm need clarification on this point.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CoolCJ24 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dragonzzilla[/quote]There's a difference between being evil and being corrupted.[/quote]Care to elaborate?[/quote] Evil: commiting "bad" acts or sins for the sole purpose of commiting said sins. Corrupted: One's actions become increasingly more "bad" as you strive to serve a purpose, for example if a loved one was in danger, a person might start off simply trying to hide the loved one away from danger, and eventually come to killing people who threaten said loved one. That's my interpretation of the terms anyway, they're not dictionary definitions. By this definition, Adolf Hitler was not "evil" by definition but severely corrupted.[/quote]So, is the Didact [i]evil[/i], or is he [i]corrupted[/i]? What many are wondering is why, how, and when the Didact became [i]evil[/i] (it is the term 343i uses to define what he is). If he [i]manipulated[/i] his body--and with it his mind--and therefore became [i]corrupted[/i], wouldn't that be the reason for him becoming [i]evil[/i] [Edited on 11.11.2012 11:16 AM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dragonzzilla[/quote]There's a difference between being evil and being corrupted.[/quote]Care to elaborate?[/quote] Evil: commiting "bad" acts or sins for the sole purpose of commiting said sins. Corrupted: One's actions become increasingly more "bad" as you strive to serve a purpose, for example if a loved one was in danger, a person might start off simply trying to hide the loved one away from danger, and eventually come to killing people who threaten said loved one. That's my interpretation of the terms anyway, they're not dictionary definitions. By this definition, Adolf Hitler was not "evil" by definition but severely corrupted.
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Watch Halo 4 terminals.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dragonzzilla[/quote]There's a difference between being evil and being corrupted.[/quote]Care to elaborate?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka [i]"In the Forerunner's quest for transendence, the Composer had been intended to bridge the organic and digital realms; it would have made us immortal, but its results soured, the stored personalities fragmented and our attemps to restore them to biological states created only abominations. Such moral concerns faded from the Didacts attention. The Flood only assimilated living tissue, the Composer would allow the Didact his solution, and his revenge."[/i] ~ The Librarian Would this clear up why the Didact suddenly became [i]evil[/i]?[/quote]There's a difference between being evil and being corrupted.
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[i]"In the Forerunner's quest for transendence, the Composer had been intended to bridge the organic and digital realms; it would have made us immortal, but its results soured, the stored personalities fragmented and our attemps to restore them to biological states created only abominations. Such moral concerns faded from the Didacts attention. The Flood only assimilated living tissue, the Composer would allow the Didact his solution, and his revenge."[/i] ~ The Librarian Would this clear up why the Didact suddenly became [i]evil[/i]? [Edited on 11.10.2012 11:48 AM PST]
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Well I'd like to think that. I'm not sure if it's correct though. We'll find out in like 3 years I guess.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] anton1792 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog It'll be interesting to see what happens to the Storm after [i]Halo 4.[/i][/quote] The least that we know from Spartan Ops is that the Covenant still exists 6 months after Halo 4, and are still intent on holding onto Requiem and being belligerent towards the UNSC. They maintain a pretty huge fleet outside Requiem when Infinity shows up. One would have thought by now that they would have gotten the message when even one of their so called "gods" is ostensibly slain by MC, and fails to even put a dent in Humanity's power. Even the idea that this Forerunner has been exiled by the rest of the Forerunners doesn't even seem to faze the Covenant species. After this I wonder how the Elites even made it into space in the first place. They are so stupid and gullible that it is something to cynically marvel at.[/quote]Thats because you are looking at them as regular elites when you should be loking at them as some kind of evil westboro baptist church.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog I feel like we're missing half of [i]Halo 4[/i]'s story in this regard.[/quote] Maybe they will cover it in Halo 5. Halo 4 was like CE in many ways, and in CE the Covenant had almost no character or exposition devoted to them. Then Halo 2 came along and changed that. If they are trying to mimic the original trilogy in the way the narrative and story evolved then the Covenant may play a larger role in the spotlight. And hopefully the Neo-Covenant isn't the be-all-end-all of the Covenant's post Halo 3 evolution. ------------ There's the possibility that the Didact didn't even say anything to the Covies and that the Covies just tagged along unsure of what the hell to do now.
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Wasn't Jul an atheist though? Even at the end of [i]The Thursday War[/i], I recall him entertaining the idea of their gods being real, but coming to a conclusion that was more or less "if they are, -blam!- them anyway; my wife is dead." I'm not saying that Jul isn't exploiting those he commands and the rest of The Storm (former Abiding Truth?) are devout though. All I'm saying is, as always, Jul has his own ulterior motive; that motive being "-blam!- humans."
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] anton1792 I think [url=http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx283/Anton1792/blah%20blah/1.jpg]this[/url] just about sums it all up.[/quote] lol'd I thought their quest for the Didact was perfectly sensible - in a crisis of religion, they actually find a living, breathing God; how else would they react? I just wonder what exactly the Storm were doing, though. Did Jul meet the Didact? Surely if he did, the Didact's nobility wouldn't have allowed him to play at God. I feel like we're missing half of [i]Halo 4[/i]'s story in this regard.[/quote] When Chief first open the Didact's cryptum, all the elites start kneeling before Didact. Didact remarks that those creatures know what they are seeing, so Didact does seem to think of himself as better than them at the very least.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] anton1792 I think [url=http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx283/Anton1792/blah%20blah/1.jpg]this[/url] just about sums it all up.[/quote] lol'd I thought their quest for the Didact was perfectly sensible - in a crisis of religion, they actually find a living, breathing God; how else would they react? I just wonder what exactly the Storm were doing, though. Did Jul meet the Didact? Surely if he did, the Didact's nobility wouldn't have allowed him to play at God. I feel like we're missing half of [i]Halo 4[/i]'s story in this regard.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DarkestSeptagon [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] nemesishunter7 Ur-Didact for sure. I still can't figure out why he hates humans. The terminals seem to contradict the books.[/quote]Maybe it's just a natural hatred. Isn't the Didact that's in Halo 4 the same Didact that fought the humans in the Forerunner-Human war?[/quote] Yes he is. But he admired how humans fought so hard to live and protect what they believed. And the only reason he "hated" them is because humans invaded forerunner worlds, he thought they did it for gain but later he found out that humans were just running FM the flood.
