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11/8/2012 12:57:43 AM
82

So... Is It Okay to Talk About Now?

[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/08/us/politics/marijuana-laws-eased-in-colorado-and-washington.html?_r=0]Because if you live in Colorado, it's not illegal.[/url] Only reason I ask, is due to people I know who were banned by moderators for mentioning it. Don't be brash and rush in saying no. Have an open mind. Are we allowed to discuss the subject matters on the forums as regular conversation pieces now? If this works well in Colorado, I see it spreading nationally. Just like with the end of the prohibition and raise in the drinking age. Reasons become justified later in time and the world changes. Embrace it rather than living in fear of it all.

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  • Why do you NEED to talk about it? If you are insecure and need confirmation about your habit, the internet is not a good place to become secure. Go talk to the most health-oriented person you know, or even your doc, and talk to THEM about pot, not us. Video games exist so that we don't have to worry about politics as long as we are sitting on our couch.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DeeJ Are we using our best judgment here? [/quote] Not really. It's beginning to smell in here like other websites where people fly into a rage over political debates. The Bungie Community I know is better than that. I hate to lock this thread, but I have low hopes for this conversation. Do you think we can find something better to talk about than the issues that sprang from this week's election? If you need to argue with someone about that, there are private groups under this roof that will host your debate. Thank you, DeeJ BNG Assistant to the Community Manager Bungie

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  • I'm at a loss of words here, maybe somebody out there understands what I'm trying to write out. I want people to not over react when things pop up? Not just with this subject, but others as well. In a sense, normalize it. You don't have to use it, you don't have to be afraid of it, I'd just like to see it incorporated and people be mature about it. Much like how I don't go into every alcohol related thread and bash it. I have my personal opinions, experiences, and quarrels with it. That's for me to keep to myself. But then again that would require for people to not be rude. Why can't we just all smile and talk to each other like friends? You don't have to like somebody, but you don't have to hate them. You don't have to like something, but you don't have to hate it either. It being "legalized" in Colorado is only a start, I'm just looking ahead.

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  • If it's grown in the ground, you'll be safe and sound. If it's made out of chemicals, it'll swell up your genitals... That's my outlook anyway. [Edited on 11.08.2012 3:42 PM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Logan7798 Why you would want to talk about it anyway on this site is beyond me.[/quote] Why do people make girl threads? Why do people ask about your favourite food? Those two topics have no place (in theory) on a video game website either. First off, i just want to make it clear that i'm not campaigning that we be allowed to talk about it. I just don't like the idea of discussion being limited, especially on matters that aren't illegal. The marijuana debate is a touchy subject, and will be for a long time, but what about other issues that arise in the future? Ones that don't involve illicit substances? I guess what i really want is a little clarification on the rules as to whether discussion is forbidden simply because of the legal implications, or whether it's forbidden because a topic is a little taboo. Then again, in different circles, things that we discuss every day would be seen as taboo. [Edited on 11.08.2012 3:08 PM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] x Foman123 x [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] YodasCurd [/quote]This thread is about rule enforcement. Do not try to use this as an excuse to discuss politics or marijuana usage, please.[/quote] Sorry, I wasn't trying too... I was trying to make the point that nothing has changed, if anything it seems more illegal now, therefore I don't believe it to be an appropriate forum topic. Sorry if my post seemed controversial

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Heliossoileh1 It seems simple enough of an idea, irrespective of the number of words involved. Many children's books are quite long. Are you saying they're complex? I look forward to you actually responding to my post in a substantive way, anyway. And it's four more words, if you're interested.[/quote] It IS simple enough an idea, but you used so many to try to more precisely describe something that was summarized (sufficiently for me and many others) in just se7en words. Does each line of the Stuff that Sucks clause then get a similar treatment and expansion? Or, do we make it basic and expect people to figure it out, and when they get it wrong, accept the consequences and realize where the threshold actually is (no matter how logical they consider their counter-argument to be)?

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] edableshoe [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] edableshoe [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Logan7798 Why you would want to talk about it anyway on this site is beyond me.[/quote]I don't see why people want to talk about halo 4 on this website. (I'm disregarding the federal ban because I'm assuming you are too)[/quote]wow. Halo 4 is....a video game? This is website...is a video game Dev's site? I feel like you're trolling now, that was probably the stupidest thing I've ever seen.[/quote]Fine, switch it with drag racing, scuba driving, bananas, whatever makes you happy. Halo 4 was the first thing that popped into my head.[/quote]Gonna go out on a limb here and say that, generally the topics found in The Flood are related to Gaming Popular Culture. But there is one thing to keep in mind, those topics you listed follow the rules. I think that's probably what we need to really keep in mind here. Topics must follow the rules. The rules are set in place for us to follow, not break. As long as something is illegal, I guess we can't really talk about it. I mean, just today someone linked to scans of a magazine, and they were banned pretty quickly, because those scans are illegal.[/quote]I was also disregarding the fact that its against the rules because whoever I quoted seemed to be implying that even if it weren't against the rules, there would be nothing to discuss about it.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Kickimanjaro So, there was a time when we found the rules confusing and asked for clarification. Then the powers-that-be decided to simplify the rules to make it easier to understand and so that their moderators could use discretion. So, we complained when there were discrepancies and we asked for clarification once more. I do not want a huge legal document for the rules, even if that would provide closure for all these questions we keep asking. Perhaps we should have a group where we can ask moderators for clarification when we have questions...kind of like a Frequently Asked Questions kind of deal, but with more community involvement. [/quote]We need to find a happiness point. A perfect amount of clarification mixed with a perfect amount of simplicity. With that, you can find a perfect amount of complaining about how the mods misinterpreted the rules. A minimum if you will. I'm not against Bungie experimenting with the rules more often to find out where this point is.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Heliossoileh1 Perhaps it is better to simply say that one cannot use this place to commit, arrange to commit, or incite others to commit, criminal offences, insofar as the acts being committed, arranged or incited are criminal offences in the countries in which the conversational partners are resident. That's really all that is required.[/quote] That's a lot of words in order to "simply say" something. I think that it might be more words than is in all of the "things that suck" clause of the CoC.[/quote] It seems simple enough of an idea, irrespective of the number of words involved. Many children's books are quite long. Are you saying they're complex? I look forward to you actually responding to my post in a substantive way, anyway. And it's four more words, if you're interested.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] edableshoe [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Logan7798 Why you would want to talk about it anyway on this site is beyond me.[/quote]I don't see why people want to talk about halo 4 on this website. (I'm disregarding the federal ban because I'm assuming you are too)[/quote]wow. Halo 4 is....a video game? This is website...is a video game Dev's site? I feel like you're trolling now, that was probably the stupidest thing I've ever seen.[/quote]Fine, switch it with drag racing, scuba driving, bananas, whatever makes you happy. Halo 4 was the first thing that popped into my head.[/quote]Gonna go out on a limb here and say that, generally the topics found in The Flood are related to Gaming Popular Culture. But there is one thing to keep in mind, those topics you listed follow the rules. I think that's probably what we need to really keep in mind here. Topics must follow the rules. The rules are set in place for us to follow, not break. As long as something is illegal, I guess we can't really talk about it. I mean, just today someone linked to scans of a magazine, and they were banned pretty quickly, because those scans are illegal.

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  • So, there was a time when we found the rules confusing and asked for clarification. Then the powers-that-be decided to simplify the rules to make it easier to understand and so that their moderators could use discretion. So, we complained when there were discrepancies and we asked for clarification once more. I do not want a huge legal document for the rules, even if that would provide closure for all these questions we keep asking. Perhaps we should have a group where we can ask moderators for clarification when we have questions...kind of like a Frequently Asked Questions kind of deal, but with more community involvement. [Edited on 11.08.2012 2:35 PM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Heliossoileh1 Perhaps it is better to simply say that one cannot use this place to commit, arrange to commit, or incite others to commit, criminal offences, insofar as the acts being committed, arranged or incited are criminal offences in the countries in which the conversational partners are resident. That's really all that is required.[/quote] That's a lot of words in order to "simply say" something. I think that it might be more words than is in all of the "things that suck" clause of the CoC.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] edableshoe [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Logan7798 Why you would want to talk about it anyway on this site is beyond me.[/quote]I don't see why people want to talk about halo 4 on this website. (I'm disregarding the federal ban because I'm assuming you are too)[/quote]wow. Halo 4 is....a video game? This is website...is a video game Dev's site? I feel like you're trolling now, that was probably the stupidest thing I've ever seen.[/quote]Fine, switch it with drag racing, scuba driving, bananas, whatever makes you happy. Halo 4 was the first thing that popped into my head.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Logan7798 Why you would want to talk about it anyway on this site is beyond me.[/quote]I don't see why people want to talk about halo 4 on this website. (I'm disregarding the federal ban because I'm assuming you are too)[/quote]wow. Halo 4 is....a video game? This is website...is a video game Dev's site? I feel like you're trolling now, that was probably the stupidest thing I've ever seen.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ARBITOR 5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Graysoxrule [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ARBITOR 5 What a load of tosh. It isn't legal here (UK) so I kind of find this stuff.. offensive. I wouldn't want to talk about this at any place, let alone on a game website![/quote]You find [i]this[/i] offensive? How have you managed to stay on this site for so long?[/quote]Drugs are offensive to me. I know what they do to people, how they change them. It's.. not nice. So yeah, you got a problem with that? That is [b]MY[/b] opinion on this topic after all.[/quote]I respect your opinion. I have seen the negative effects of drugs more than I would like to admit, and that includes legal and illegal drugs. The question that the OP was asking was if we should be able to talk about marijuana here as there is now more effort in several states to legalize it for recreational and medicinal use. I feel that your comment sparked such a surprised response from some because you seem to have said that because something was illegal in your country that discussion about it was offensive. You have clarified that and I feel we can move on. It is easy to get heated in topics that one feels strongly about, but let us try to not take out our anger and frustration on each other.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Logan7798 Why you would want to talk about it anyway on this site is beyond me.[/quote]I don't see why people want to talk about halo 4 on this website. (I'm disregarding the federal ban because I'm assuming you are too)

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] dibbs089 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Heliossoileh1 According to the much vaunted "Rules", I cannot talk about jaywalking. That, after all, is "illegal activity", though [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6251431.stm]not in my country[/url].[/quote]That would be according to your interpretation of the rules (unless of course you've had punitive measures taken against you for creating such a topic - then that would be according to the specific moderator's interpretation of them).[/quote] It has nothing to do with interpretation. The way the rule is written, jaywalking is a forbidden topic. If moderators do not lock topics on jaywalking-or else ban people for posting about it- then they are in fact ignoring what the rule says, not "interpreting" it. The fact is that "Do not post about any illegal substances or activities" is hopelessly vague. No one seriously enforces it, nor could they. Not all illegal activities are such that discussion of them would be considered by any moderator here as unacceptable, as my jaywalking example demonstrates. Moreover, laws differ between countries, and even between US states. This isn't trivial. A good example is that of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mephedrone]mephedrone[/url], a formerly very popular recreational drug, especially in the UK. Since mid 2010, it has been a prohibited substance in the UK, Australia and most of mainland Europe. Yet for well over a year since that time it was not generally restricted in the US, and remains only temporarily so even now. Would the discussion of the effects of mephedrone on oneself or the legal status of this drug have been permitted here or not? There are other examples. Whilst trolling isn't permitted here, the discussion of it, as a phenomenon, is. Yet, according to the above rule, it should not be, since some trolling is in fact illegal under the [url=http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/27/section/1]Malicious Communications Act[/url], in which case even discussing trolling, in any sense, breaks the rule-though not for non-British people not bound by comparable acts. So, one can pretend that this rule is [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] x Foman123 x "an unambiguous, bright-line rule"[/quote] or one which really needs to be set aside in favour of some common sense. The solution isn't to write a set of provisions which tries to do the impossible and clarify something so obscure. Perhaps it is better to simply say that one cannot use this place to commit, arrange to commit, or incite others to commit, criminal offences, insofar as the acts being committed, arranged or incited are criminal offences in the countries in which the conversational partners are resident. That's really all that is required. [Edited on 11.08.2012 2:23 PM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Graysoxrule [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ARBITOR 5 What a load of tosh. It isn't legal here (UK) so I kind of find this stuff.. offensive. I wouldn't want to talk about this at any place, let alone on a game website![/quote]You find [i]this[/i] offensive? How have you managed to stay on this site for so long?[/quote]Drugs are offensive to me. I know what they do to people, how they change them. It's.. not nice. So yeah, you got a problem with that? That is [b]MY[/b] opinion on this topic after all.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ARBITOR 5 What a load of tosh. It isn't legal here (UK) so I kind of find this stuff.. offensive. I wouldn't want to talk about this at any place, let alone on a game website![/quote]You find [i]this[/i] offensive? How have you managed to stay on this site for so long?

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  • No not here OP, this is not a site that should have that type of talk. There are forums set up for this exact thing, you can always visit one of those and talk about it if you really want to.

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  • Why you would want to talk about it anyway on this site is beyond me.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ARBITOR 5 What a load of tosh. It isn't legal here (UK) so I kind of find this stuff.. offensive. I wouldn't want to talk about this at any place, let alone on a game website![/quote]LOL. Offensive? Are you kidding me? Over [i]this[/i]? That's ridiculous. ©

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  • What a load of tosh. It isn't legal here (UK) so I kind of find this stuff.. offensive. I wouldn't want to talk about this at any place, let alone on a game website!

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] edableshoe [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] edableshoe I'm on the same side.[/quote]You're not on my side if you post a paragraphs that imply that you disagree with me. Sorry.[/quote]I'm sure you've heard about something called "politics." You see, in politics, there is one goal, and the disagreement comes from how we achieve that common goal. What you and I have here is a disagreement on a singular goal. If you live in America, you are not on different teams if you are for different parties, you just disagree on the means to a common goal. So, in turn, you and I are not on different teams, so to speak. I would love to talk about this stuff here, but why the hell would I rush it? No need to push, I can wait, and it isn't all that big of a deal, because I know that there are probably only a handful of users on here worth talking to about this topic. You seem to want something, and want it now, using argumentative fallacies to criticize a system you don't quite understand. I tell you of your argument's flaw, a more correct method of approach, and a resolution that would produce the common goal. You take that personally, and return ad hominem. And here we are, a couple post later, you claiming we are on different sides.[/quote]I don't think you understand. I have severe ADD. It's very difficult for me to interpret what you are trying to say when you post a terribly formatted post when you say you disagree with me, then agree with me, then disagree with me. That already makes it difficult for me to read and I completely lose interest in what you have to say. Then when the first thing I see in that post is "You have absolutely no knowledge of politics". You give the impression that the rest of your post is full of false accusations about me, so I lose interest in what you have to say and I just skim down through the rest of your post. I think I saw something about you trying to explain to me what an Argumentum Ad Hominem Fallacy was. I know exactly what a fallacy is. I'm familiar with Ad Hominems, Populams, Consequentums, sequiturs, and all the others. But I don't know because I didn't read your post. All I got from skimming through your post is that you think I'm 12. Stop it. I'm sorry, but you need to either change the ways you organize the information in your posts, or either stop replying to me. It's super inconvenient for me, and it's annoying. If I am annoyed, there's a good chance I'll just use subtle Ad Hominems until you actually post something that's not annoying me. EDIT: Now I look like a hypocrite, My post is terrible. Here's the short version of the post: "I'm mentally retarded." Now I'm feeling depressed. I hate you. [Edited on 11.08.2012 1:32 PM PST]

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  • oops, never mind. [Edited on 11.08.2012 1:18 PM PST]

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