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#Halo

7/26/2012 4:40:00 AM
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CE vs Reach Comparisons

Figured I may as well follow through. This list will continually grow and change. Sliding Ghost and nesteggfailure are free to add as they will and I'll add them to the OP. [quote]Characters[/quote] [b]Elites[/b] CE: -consistently competent enemies -clear roles & colour progression for each rank -each rank had predictable behaviours and fighting styles -competence and abilities increased with rank -increased difficulty results in increased aggression and numbers; slightly increased ROF, damage, and punishment capacity -melees avoidable and damage/speed progressed with rank -only Spec Ops Elites threw grenades -Active Camoflouge Elites had no shields as compensation for stealth Reach: -Competence highly variable -ranks difficult to discern from one another -simplicity of colour progression replaces with random colour scheme -no clear indicator or role between several ranks (General v Zealot v Bob) -increased difficulty results in damage sponge and massive ROF/damage increase in addition to -movement unpredictable at all times, no pattern to movement -melees unavoidable, always massive damage (one-hit kill with difficulty) -all Elites throw instant grenades -all Elites have shields more later
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  • General Consensus says, "Attention, everyone, please to look for my new Youtube video, 'Why the Marines in Reach are wearing helmets...' " Cut to my being killed by my own guys pulling up in a Warthog... Then to the (hilarious) hijinks of getting everyone situated in musical chairs fashion with the RPG guy refusing to take the passenger seat... Show Kat refusing to get in the vehicle, no matter what I do short of killing her... And finish it off with the thousands of times I die from gunners (RPG guy, this is for you...) refusing to gun. Great times. Suspended disbelief...intact. Let's all gather our bras and tin foil hats...
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Multijirachi [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] path1k [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost But grenades beat everything! jk[/quote]ha that reminds me, surely you all had an experience similar to mine when you were new to Halo: Combat Evolved try to kill a hunter by spamming grenades at him which did minimum to no damage?[/quote] Kind of related, if anyone here has play Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, the Rancor in the sewers. I didn't listen at all, and instead of doing the 2 second route, I just threw grenades, went back to my apartment, bought more, kept throwing. It eventually died.[/quote] Next time, just take some of the agent you found from the cut off Rodian arm, and put it in the rancor's pile of meat along with some mines INSIDE the inventory of the meat. And watch da explosions.
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  • thanks again Sliding Ghost!
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] path1k [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] path1k how do you get it past the barrier? i'm assuming grenades have something to do with it[/quote]Several ways to do it. Squeeze it through[/quote]Sliding Ghost could you make a quick video for me sometime showing how to squeeze it through? i've tried doing it many times but failed[/quote][url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUY-BEMoVb4]Here[/url]. Basically, go back against a rock (seen at [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUY-BEMoVb4#t=45s]0:45[/url] and [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUY-BEMoVb4#t=1m04s]1:04[/url]) then drive into the gap. If the hog starts to tip to one side (as seen at [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUY-BEMoVb4#t=1m8s]1:08[/url]), don't hold forward. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jose291 True, from Halo 1 to Halo 3, I take cared of my marines, kept them alive if I could. But in Reach they don't do anything, they are slow, silly and not worthy to be cared off.[/quote]Even in speedrunning, CE marines could be useful. But in Reach, friendly AI are a waste of memory. TotS's second aa gun area even lags if you leave some enemies alive when the Pelican arrives. Not to mention how many troopers were territorial, stuck in one spot unwilling or unable to go anywhere except in a vehicle (of course, they run right back unless you somehow manage to trap them).
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] path1k how do you get it past the barrier? i'm assuming grenades have something to do with it[/quote]Several ways to do it. Squeeze it through[/quote]Sliding Ghost could you make a quick video for me sometime showing how to squeeze it through? i've tried doing it many times but failed
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost If I were to dedicate all night to this endeavor, this thread might reach it's second page by morning. But I'd like to take this opportunity to focus on particular enemies so I'll make my list on friendly AI less severe. [b]Friendly AI[/b] [u]CE:[/u] -[url=http://badcyborg.net/Halo/Fun/Level5/TBM/BattleRemarks.html#Big-squad_battling]marines in large numbers can kick ass[/url]. Covies won't be able to concentrate on just one marine. Constant/suppressive fire will force Elites to strafe and take cover and Jackals to roll, rendering them largely unable to retaliate for long periods as they'd usually would. -marines stay in their seats in most cases, allowing you to leave them behind for long periods or position them in defense positions (best combined with a sniper wielding passenger). Only instances where they will get out of a vehicle (Scorpion, Hog) by themselves: *the flipped Hog on AotCR *the Scorpion on AotCR -it is possible to save: *all the marines on Halo (you can drive the life pod survivors away so they don't get picked up by the Pelicans) *all the marines during the T&R boarding battle *all the marines from the SC beach landing (you can prevent their deaths after activating the Cartographer by driving them deep into the Cartographer structure beforehand) *all the marines on AotCR *the 3 marines that can be found being overwhelmed by the Flood *the marines that accompany you to the large tower Of these, only 2 are not worth doing (hint: both encounters found on 343 Guilty Spark, where marines make their last appearance and are supposed to be waging a hopeless battle against a new threat). -marines will berserk when they take a lot of damage. This is not necessarily a flaw. It conveys their aggression towards Covies quite well -in most cases, marines will stick with you and follow you. Only known instances where they charge regardless of your supervision: *at the beach landing stage on SC -typically, if you are not around or do not help out, marines will be pwned by the following: *plasma grenades thrown by Grunts *superior Elite numbers (obviously) *Jackals (only because of their shields, though they will give marines a chance to hit them by rolling) *sword Elites (obviously) *Hunters (obviously) [u]Reach:[/u] [i]Note: I'll be referring to troopers as marines for simplicity[/i] -marines are damage sponges -marines show poor performance in nearly everything they do. They do not at all demonstrate any effort. Their rof is minimal. They do not at all demonstrate any emotion. They die because they stood there doing nothing. -it is inconceivable to save all marines in a given location by fighting. The only way to save them all is to block them -marines have sluggish response, turning, and getting in vehicles, probably intentional -marines rarely stay in vehicles. Often, if you hop out, they'll hop out as well. If you leave them for several seconds, they will get in your vehicle and likely drive off with it, perhaps off a cliff or they will splatter you with it. If you block the driver seat then get on the turret, the marine who was operating it will charge into battle instead of waiting around for you to get back behind the wheels -fireteams are purely aesthetic. Most of it is scripting -it is virtually impossible to develop genuine concern for marines, even named ones, unless they are gunners -marines can now throw grenades from behind cover though I have only seen it on LNoS from behind sandbag and this seems to be the only new capability introduced -marines don't use the DMR at it's proper range yet they use the plasma rifle, concussion rifle, and needle rifle at their proper range. Probably intentional and possibly evidence that marines share AI with Covies to some extent as Covies can also be seen using these weapons at longer ranges -marines at the end of Exodus suffer from non-complacency, meaning they don't notice the Covies, though they will put shots into recently killed Covies. The Covies mostly don't notice them either. This is probably intentional, or the marine AI is swapped with Moa... -marines with heavy weapons or mounting heavy weaponry (Wraith mortar, rocket hog) will shoot at dead bodies or departing dropships instead of dealing with the threat at hand -marines are only useful if they are wielding power weapons or in turrets -marines are essentially moving ammo, designed to be killed by the enemy or to be betrayed for their guns (which reflects Reach mp behavior...) -marines are not reliable for distraction. The enemy is designed to focus on the player -Pelicans often deploy 10 marines at a time. They always charge into battle instead of taking up defense positions. They get owned hard -Noble Team sucks. Enough said[/quote] True, from Halo 1 to Halo 3, I take cared of my marines, kept them alive if I could. But in Reach they don't do anything, they are slow, silly and not worthy to be cared off.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Multijirachi [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] path1k [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost I found out it was possible to bring a Hog past the tree on Silent Cartographer.[/quote]how do you get it past the barrier? i'm assuming grenades have something to do with it[/quote]Several ways to do it. Squeeze it through, grenade it, or use another hog to push it through.[/quote] I found that out when I first got CEA. Squeezing it through is probally the easiest method. Now try and get it to the Hunters :D[/quote]Haha yep. Well now, that's even more easier. Splattering them can be dangerous if they're too spread out though. Good thing it's easy to herd them. I wish the Halo 2 and Reach Hunters would try to do something about an incoming vehicle...
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] path1k [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost I found out it was possible to bring a Hog past the tree on Silent Cartographer.[/quote]how do you get it past the barrier? i'm assuming grenades have something to do with it[/quote]Several ways to do it. Squeeze it through, grenade it, or use another hog to push it through.[/quote] I found that out when I first got CEA. Squeezing it through is probally the easiest method. Now try and get it to the Hunters :D
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Multijirachi Its about the size of two Elephants (The vechiles) stacked vertically on top of one another, with the strength of 30 hunters. 8X30= 240 stickies :D[/quote]:O Btw, congrats about Legendary Member promotion. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] path1k [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost I found out it was possible to bring a Hog past the tree on Silent Cartographer.[/quote]how do you get it past the barrier? i'm assuming grenades have something to do with it[/quote]Several ways to do it. Squeeze it through, grenade it, or use another hog to push it through.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost I found out it was possible to bring a Hog past the tree on Silent Cartographer.[/quote]how do you get it past the barrier? i'm assuming grenades have something to do with it
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] path1k [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost But grenades beat everything! jk[/quote]ha that reminds me, surely you all had an experience similar to mine when you were new to Halo: Combat Evolved try to kill a hunter by spamming grenades at him which did minimum to no damage?[/quote]Even then, I was thinking creative. Though I probably used grenades the first few times. I found out about the 1sk pistol on Hunters and that it was possible to bring a Hog past the tree on Silent Cartographer. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Multijirachi [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] path1k [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost But grenades beat everything! jk[/quote]ha that reminds me, surely you all had an experience similar to mine when you were new to Halo: Combat Evolved try to kill a hunter by spamming grenades at him which did minimum to no damage?[/quote] Kind of related, if anyone here has play Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, the Rancor in the sewers. I didn't listen at all, and instead of doing the 2 second route, I just threw grenades, went back to my apartment, bought more, kept throwing. It eventually died.[/quote]Haven't played that but I wonder, how many plasma grenade sticks would it take to kill that thing? For Hunters: CE: probably over 8 H2: probably over 6 H3: I think it's a minimum of 3 on Legendary Reach: probably over 20[/quote] Its about the size of two Elephants (The vechiles) stacked vertically on top of one another, with the strength of 30 hunters. 8X30= 240 stickies :D
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] path1k [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost But grenades beat everything! jk[/quote]ha that reminds me, surely you all had an experience similar to mine when you were new to Halo: Combat Evolved try to kill a hunter by spamming grenades at him which did minimum to no damage?[/quote]Even then, I was thinking creative. Though I probably used grenades the first few times. I found out about the 1sk pistol on Hunters and that it was possible to bring a Hog past the tree on Silent Cartographer. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Multijirachi [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] path1k [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost But grenades beat everything! jk[/quote]ha that reminds me, surely you all had an experience similar to mine when you were new to Halo: Combat Evolved try to kill a hunter by spamming grenades at him which did minimum to no damage?[/quote] Kind of related, if anyone here has play Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, the Rancor in the sewers. I didn't listen at all, and instead of doing the 2 second route, I just threw grenades, went back to my apartment, bought more, kept throwing. It eventually died.[/quote]Haven't played that but I wonder, how many plasma grenade sticks would it take to kill that thing? For Hunters: CE: probably over 8 H2: probably over 6 H3: I think it's a minimum of 3 on Legendary Reach: probably over 20 [Edited on 09.04.2012 4:09 AM PDT]
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] path1k [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost But grenades beat everything! jk[/quote]ha that reminds me, surely you all had an experience similar to mine when you were new to Halo: Combat Evolved try to kill a hunter by spamming grenades at him which did minimum to no damage?[/quote] Kind of related, if anyone here has play Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, the Rancor in the sewers. I didn't listen at all, and instead of doing the 2 second route, I just threw grenades, went back to my apartment, bought more, kept throwing. It eventually died.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost But grenades beat everything! jk[/quote]ha that reminds me, surely you all had an experience similar to mine when you were new to Halo: Combat Evolved try to kill a hunter by spamming grenades at him which did minimum to no damage?
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  • There was one use for them prior to that fight: keeping Arby and/or Johnson down Easy cloning and it could give you enough time to juggle a whole bunch of weapons into the control room. Of course, it was extremely dangerous if you didn't deploy it properly.
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  • Especially during the... (Spoiler Alert!) 343 Guilty Spark fight.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Multijirachi [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] InvasionImminent BOBs don't have any relation to story[/quote]True but they shouldn't have been placed so blatantly in the path. Their placement is as atrocious as Moa and civilians. Easter eggs should be subtle.[/quote]Or exclusive to Legendary, like in H2 and like the Tribute Room and the Spec Ops Elite carrying the data pad.[/quote] One good thing Reach brought, which I think should have been included on The Maw's engine room, are Auto-Turrets. The turrets on The package would be awesome in the Engine room, as well as aiding alot on Legendary.[/quote]Yeah that's true. I liked how they could easily be rearmed. The auto-turrets in Halo 3 were pretty damn OP but their usefulness was very limited.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] InvasionImminent BOBs don't have any relation to story[/quote]True but they shouldn't have been placed so blatantly in the path. Their placement is as atrocious as Moa and civilians. Easter eggs should be subtle.[/quote]Or exclusive to Legendary, like in H2 and like the Tribute Room and the Spec Ops Elite carrying the data pad.[/quote] One good thing Reach brought, which I think should have been included on The Maw's engine room, are Auto-Turrets. The turrets on The package would be awesome in the Engine room, as well as aiding alot on Legendary.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] chickenlittle but you shouldn't need weapons[/quote]But grenades beat everything! jk
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  • but you shouldn't need weapons
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] chickenlittle Waste of pistol ammo; use cover and grenades.[/quote]It's not like I'm trying to encourage him to use the other weapons. ;)
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  • Waste of pistol ammo; use cover and grenades.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] path1k ghost, which weapons do you prefer to engage an elite with at long range out of these: shotgun, pistol, needler, PP and PR you're both in a narrow hallway and it's easy for him/you to take cover from each others attacks unless he puts enough PR bolt to stun you[/quote]Pistol, PP, and PR are suitable for long range. Personally I'd go in for an assassination, using the PP overcharge to stun the Elite but I think it'd turn out best if you just used the pistol and shotgun. Weaken shield with pistol, which will make the Elite seek cover, close distance firing shotgun. [Edited on 08.25.2012 11:25 PM PDT]
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  • ghost, which weapons do you prefer to engage an elite with at long range out of these: shotgun, pistol, needler, PP and PR you're both in a narrow hallway and it's easy for him/you to take cover from each others attacks unless he puts enough PR bolt to stun you
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] path1k not sure about you guys but these sentinels seem to be more trouble then elites[/quote]In Halo 2, they can be troublesome. You can't melee them without causing an EMP explosion unless you have Sputnik on or hit them while riding on them. In CE, I find that they're only a problem if there are no distractions. And in H3, they are easy as hell. [Edited on 08.25.2012 6:59 PM PDT]
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] da 70 70 hatred Halo ce marines are useless[/quote]CE: they stumble from every shot and charge into battle H2: damage sponges and charge into battle H3: damage sponges and charge into battle Reach: damage sponges and charge into battle Yet CE marines manage to distinguish themselves in large numbers since enemies were designed to fight them and human players: Elites - sidestep Jackals - rolling In large numbers, CE marines can keep the Covies at bay. In large numbers, H2 and H3 marines will only kill faster. They will not stop Covenant movement. In large numbers, Reach troopers are fail, as seen by LNoS, TotS, and PoA. [Edited on 08.25.2012 6:58 PM PDT]
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