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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.

Edited by Cortana Five: 2/24/2013 10:12:04 PM
381

JOYEUSE IP Formula (inb4 reveal)

TL;DR: Joyeuse is the AI in Destiny. Spread the word. We're now on [url=http://www.reddit.com/r/BeBrave]Reddit![/url] "[url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/mifinalscreen.html]I know who you are. You are destiny.[/url]" [quote]"[i]My name is Cortana, of the same steel and temper as Joyeuse and Durendal."[/i][/quote] "[b]What the hell is this?[/b]" you may ask. Dearest reader, I'm here to bring you a flicker of hope about Bungie's next IP. [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=40929715]Remember me?[/url] So much has happened since the original theory was posted ([i]heck, I was featured on [url=http://misriahsolutions.com/2012/01/17/scraps-of-destiny/]Misriah Solutions![/url][/i]), and I think it's a good time to post an epic thread. E3 is on the distant horizon and people are getting itchy for new IP info. Let's get down to business, shall we? [quote][b]Reading References:[/b] -[url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/]Marathon Story Page[/url] -[url=http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page]Halopedia[/url] -[url=http://marathongame.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page]Pfhorpedia[/url] [b]Want to play Marathon yourself?[/b] [url=http://source.bungie.org/]Source.Bungie.org[/url]: Aleph One: Marathon Open Source [/quote] [quote]What's this all about? An IP formula?[/quote] Yes... Sort of. You see, in two of Bungie's trilogies, we've got this mysterious protagonist and his AI buddy ([i]If you've played Marathon, you'd likely agree that Durandal isn't exactly your buddy[/i]). So, no big deal, right? It's just a little tradition Bungie has going in their SciFi trilogies. [b]No.[/b] Big deal. HUGE deal. I'm going to tell you why. Please refer to figure one: [quote][url=http://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/u520/CortanaV/Destiny/b4c8e380.png]Figure One.[/url][/quote] In Marathon, we've got Durandal and in Halo there's Cortana. In a mix of European history and mythology, these are the names of swords that were carried by prominent men. Ogier the Dane was the holder of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtana]Curtana[/url]. Count Roland wielded [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durendal]Durendal[/url] until his dying breath. Stay with me, I am arriving to a point. On Curtana's blade there's an inscription: [quote][i]My name is Cortana, of the same steel and temper as [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyeuse]Joyeuse[/url] and Durendal.[/i][/quote] So, where's Joyeuse? In the next IP. [quote][b][u][url=http://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/u520/CortanaV/Destiny/b4c8e380.png]The Bungie Formula[/url][/u][/b][/quote] The swords, Durendal and Curtana represent the A.I. characters Durandal and Cortana. The events surrounding the AI characters are basically metaphors for the events surrounding the swords. In turn, the story of Master Chief parallels that of Ogier the Dane, and MJOLNIR Recon Number 54 ([i]not the moderator[/i]) parallels Count Roland. Not only do these stories parallel, they interact with each other. These men became allies to combat the invading Saracens and Charlemagne (see below) even used Joyeuse to knight Ogier the Dane. If this tradition is to be followed, then your protagonist will parallel [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne]Charlemagne[/url] and his sword Joyeuse. Plot points, character names (specifically your AI sidekick) and character development can be traced back to Charlemagne and his sword. In short, that's all you really need to know if you're not up for reading. But if you want proof, here you are: ~[quote]The Parallels[/quote] [quote][b]Marathon, MRN54, and Count Roland[/b][/quote] [url=http://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/u520/CortanaV/Destiny/9c7e2b1a.png][b]Figure Two[/b][/url]- MRN54 vs. Count Roland & Durandal vs. Durendal [i][b]Note:[/b] More detailed evidence may be found in the [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=40929715]original thread[/url].[/i] The parallels here are more about the protagonist's interactions with his sword/AI. In [i]the "Song of Roland"[/i], Count Roland, faced with defeat during the battle of Roncesvalles, attempts to destroy his allegedly unbreakable sword, in order to keep such a weapon away from the enemy. He strikes his sword against a cliff, only to destroy part of the cliff, while his sword remains whole. Remind you of anyone, Marathon players? Durandal instructs the player to destroy him in order to avoid Leela's fate of being captured by the Pfhor. ([i]Keep in mind that this was not an honest request made by Durandal. He's a sneaky bastard.[/i]) After you destroy Durandal, it turns out that he remains unscathed and endures on throughout the trilogy. ([i]The only thing that actually destroys him is the literal end of the universe... It's complicated.[/i]) I'd like to top this off with the fact that Durandal makes [url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/roland.html]direct references to Count Roland[/url], Charlemagne, and the [b]sword[/b] Durendal. [quote][b]Halo, Master Chief, and Ogier the Dane[/b][/quote] [url=http://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/u520/CortanaV/Destiny/f95b5a0b.png][b]Figure Three[/b][/url]- Master Chief vs. Ogier the Dane & Cortana vs. Curtana [i][b]Note:[/b] Again, this is a readers' digest version. Insane details [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=40929715]here[/url].[/i] Ogier the Dane is a legendary character in Danish mythology. He was the son of the king of Denmark. According to legend, mere days after his birth, he was visited by six sister maidens (this is extreme paraphrasing, by the way) who granted him the promise of becoming the greatest warrior of his time and plenty of chances to prove it. Ogier was given the sword Curtana, which was originally [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tristan]Tristan's[/url] sword. The sword was shortened to fit Ogier. Ogier's son was killed by the kin of Charlemagne, igniting a hatred inside Ogier that led him to hunt down his son's killer and Charlemagne himself. Ogier got his revenge, but was barely prevented from killing Charlemagne. In order to defend his people and take down a threat that threatened both him and Charlemagne, Ogier makes peace with Charlemagne and Count Roland in order to defeat the Saracens. When the struggle was over, Ogier went to sleep under castle Kronborg. When his people were under threat once more, Ogier said that he would rise once more to deliver his people from the threat. Like Ogier, John-117 was raised to become an excellent warrior, and with the internal conflict amongst humanity, he was guaranteed to prove his skills. Cortana also went through a bit of a "shortening" before landing in MC's hands. This is a vague parallel, but the copying/splitting she underwent on Reach may parallel Ogier's sword being shortened before going to him. Before finding the Flood, he lost many of his fellow Spartans, colleagues, and friends to the Covenant. But in order to, not only save humanity, but all life, he had to make peace with the Arbiter and the elites. When the fight was finished, the Master Chief went back into the cryo tube to sleep, after instructing Cortana to, "wake me when you need me." [quote][b]Destiny, Unknown Protagonist, and Charlemagne[/b][/quote] [url=http://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/u520/CortanaV/Destiny/403d97ba.png?t=1330661805][b]Figure Four[/b][/url]- ???, Charlemagne, and Joyeuse [i][b]Note:[/b] You know the drill. [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=40929715]Click[/url].[/i] This is where details get thin. I don't have an actual character or AI to compare to Charlemagne or his sword. The AI section of figure four is blank for a reason. I don't really have anything. Charlemagne was basically the father of Western Europe. He was king of the Franks and ushered in many reforms during his reign. Things to note are: -he co-ruled with his brother. They did NOT get along, and the only thing that prevented war was his brother's convenient death. -he carried on his father's policies and removed the Lombards from power in Italy. -he waged war in Spain against the Saracens. -he fought alongside Ogier the Dane and Count Roland during the battle of Roncesvalles, where he experienced the worst military defeat of his life. As for his sword, Joyeuse was used to behead a Saracen commander and to knight Ogier the Dane. See figure four. The problem here is, again, I have no idea which details about this man or his sword will matter. [quote][b][u]Conclusion[/b][/u][/quote] A lot of this has to be viewed upon with a pinch of salt. I could have a ton of things wrong here! I realize that Bungie, as a company, has changed drastically since Halo's origins. There are a ton of new people on the team and not all of the original writers remain. If this theory may be true, Joyeuse and Charlemagne may not show up because of the company's evolution. [quote][b]Links:[/b] [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=68213981]My God, It's Full of Stars - The Destiny Map[/url] by SonicJohn [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=69922521]Predicting Destiny Based on Halo 3: ODST and Halo Reach[/url] by SonicJohn [url=http://misriahsolutions.com/articles/waiting-for-destiny/1/]Waiting for Destiny[/url] on Misriah Solutions [url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/puzzles.html]Facts and Puzzling Things About...[/url] on Marathon's Story Page [i]My Links[/i]: [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=40929715]Original Thread[/url]. You know, in case you missed it. >_> [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=56466577]Copyright Thread[/url] [/quote]

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  • In little more than a month we will FINALLY know if Bungie has continued to observe this tradition/theory.

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  • inb4 well deserved Bungie logo.

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  • It will be interesting to see how much of this proves to be true. From what it sounds like from the E3 trailer the ghost is going to play a bigger role than we thought. Perhaps that's our AI joyeuse.

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  • [quote]TL;DR: Joyeuse is the AI in Destiny. Spread the word. We're now on [url=http://www.reddit.com/r/BeBrave]Reddit![/url] "[url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/mifinalscreen.html]I know who you are. You are destiny.[/url]" [quote]"[i]My name is Cortana, of the same steel and temper as Joyeuse and Durendal."[/i][/quote] "[b]What the hell is this?[/b]" you may ask. Dearest reader, I'm here to bring you a flicker of hope about Bungie's next IP. [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=40929715]Remember me?[/url] So much has happened since the original theory was posted ([i]heck, I was featured on [url=http://misriahsolutions.com/2012/01/17/scraps-of-destiny/]Misriah Solutions![/url][/i]), and I think it's a good time to post an epic thread. E3 is on the distant horizon and people are getting itchy for new IP info. Let's get down to business, shall we? [quote][b]Reading References:[/b] -[url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/]Marathon Story Page[/url] -[url=http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page]Halopedia[/url] -[url=http://marathongame.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page]Pfhorpedia[/url] [b]Want to play Marathon yourself?[/b] [url=http://source.bungie.org/]Source.Bungie.org[/url]: Aleph One: Marathon Open Source [/quote] [quote]What's this all about? An IP formula?[/quote] Yes... Sort of. You see, in two of Bungie's trilogies, we've got this mysterious protagonist and his AI buddy ([i]If you've played Marathon, you'd likely agree that Durandal isn't exactly your buddy[/i]). So, no big deal, right? It's just a little tradition Bungie has going in their SciFi trilogies. [b]No.[/b] Big deal. HUGE deal. I'm going to tell you why. Please refer to figure one: [quote][url=http://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/u520/CortanaV/Destiny/b4c8e380.png]Figure One.[/url][/quote] In Marathon, we've got Durandal and in Halo there's Cortana. In a mix of European history and mythology, these are the names of swords that were carried by prominent men. Ogier the Dane was the holder of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtana]Curtana[/url]. Count Roland wielded [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durendal]Durendal[/url] until his dying breath. Stay with me, I am arriving to a point. On Curtana's blade there's an inscription: [quote][i]My name is Cortana, of the same steel and temper as [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyeuse]Joyeuse[/url] and Durendal.[/i][/quote] So, where's Joyeuse? In the next IP. [quote][b][u][url=http://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/u520/CortanaV/Destiny/b4c8e380.png]The Bungie Formula[/url][/u][/b][/quote] The swords, Durendal and Curtana represent the A.I. characters Durandal and Cortana. The events surrounding the AI characters are basically metaphors for the events surrounding the swords. In turn, the story of Master Chief parallels that of Ogier the Dane, and MJOLNIR Recon Number 54 ([i]not the moderator[/i]) parallels Count Roland. Not only do these stories parallel, they interact with each other. These men became allies to combat the invading Saracens and Charlemagne (see below) even used Joyeuse to knight Ogier the Dane. If this tradition is to be followed, then your protagonist will parallel [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne]Charlemagne[/url] and his sword Joyeuse. Plot points, character names (specifically your AI sidekick) and character development can be traced back to Charlemagne and his sword. In short, that's all you really need to know if you're not up for reading. But if you want proof, here you are: ~[quote]The Parallels[/quote] [quote][b]Marathon, MRN54, and Count Roland[/b][/quote] [url=http://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/u520/CortanaV/Destiny/9c7e2b1a.png][b]Figure Two[/b][/url]- MRN54 vs. Count Roland & Durandal vs. Durendal [i][b]Note:[/b] More detailed evidence may be found in the [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=40929715]original thread[/url].[/i] The parallels here are more about the protagonist's interactions with his sword/AI. In [i]the "Song of Roland"[/i], Count Roland, faced with defeat during the battle of Roncesvalles, attempts to destroy his allegedly unbreakable sword, in order to keep such a weapon away from the enemy. He strikes his sword against a cliff, only to destroy part of the cliff, while his sword remains whole. Remind you of anyone, Marathon players? Durandal instructs the player to destroy him in order to avoid Leela's fate of being captured by the Pfhor. ([i]Keep in mind that this was not an honest request made by Durandal. He's a sneaky bastard.[/i]) After you destroy Durandal, it turns out that he remains unscathed and endures on throughout the trilogy. ([i]The only thing that actually destroys him is the literal end of the universe... It's complicated.[/i]) I'd like to top this off with the fact that Durandal makes [url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/roland.html]direct references to Count Roland[/url], Charlemagne, and the [b]sword[/b] Durendal. [quote][b]Halo, Master Chief, and Ogier the Dane[/b][/quote] [url=http://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/u520/CortanaV/Destiny/f95b5a0b.png][b]Figure Three[/b][/url]- Master Chief vs. Ogier the Dane & Cortana vs. Curtana [i][b]Note:[/b] Again, this is a readers' digest version. Insane details [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=40929715]here[/url].[/i] Ogier the Dane is a legendary character in Danish mythology. He was the son of the king of Denmark. According to legend, mere days after his birth, he was visited by six sister maidens (this is extreme paraphrasing, by the way) who granted him the promise of becoming the greatest warrior of his time and plenty of chances to prove it. Ogier was given the sword Curtana, which was originally [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tristan]Tristan's[/url] sword. The sword was shortened to fit Ogier. Ogier's son was killed by the kin of Charlemagne, igniting a hatred inside Ogier that led him to hunt down his son's killer and Charlemagne himself. Ogier got his revenge, but was barely prevented from killing Charlemagne. In order to defend his people and take down a threat that threatened both him and Charlemagne, Ogier makes peace with Charlemagne and Count Roland in order to defeat the Saracens. When the struggle was over, Ogier went to sleep under castle Kronborg. When his people were under threat once more, Ogier said that he would rise once more to deliver his people from the threat. Like Ogier, John-117 was raised to become an excellent warrior, and with the internal conflict amongst humanity, he was guaranteed to prove his skills. Cortana also went through a bit of a "shortening" before landing in MC's hands. This is a vague parallel, but the copying/splitting she underwent on Reach may parallel Ogier's sword being shortened before going to him. Before finding the Flood, he lost many of his fellow Spartans, colleagues, and friends to the Covenant. But in order to, not only save humanity, but all life, he had to make peace with the Arbiter and the elites. When the fight was finished, the Master Chief went back into the cryo tube to sleep, after instructing Cortana to, "wake me when you need me." [quote][b]Destiny, Unknown Protagonist, and Charlemagne[/b][/quote] [url=http://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/u520/CortanaV/Destiny/403d97ba.png?t=1330661805][b]Figure Four[/b][/url]- ???, Charlemagne, and Joyeuse [i][b]Note:[/b] You know the drill. [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=40929715]Click[/url].[/i] This is where details get thin. I don't have an actual character or AI to compare to Charlemagne or his sword. The AI section of figure four is blank for a reason. I don't really have anything. Charlemagne was basically the father of Western Europe. He was king of the Franks and ushered in many reforms during his reign. Things to note are: -he co-ruled with his brother. They did NOT get along, and the only thing that prevented war was his brother's convenient death. -he carried on his father's policies and removed the Lombards from power in Italy. -he waged war in Spain against the Saracens. -he fought alongside Ogier the Dane and Count Roland during the battle of Roncesvalles, where he experienced the worst military defeat of his life. As for his sword, Joyeuse was used to behead a Saracen commander and to knight Ogier the Dane. See figure four. The problem here is, again, I have no idea which details about this man or his sword will matter. [quote][b][u]Conclusion[/b][/u][/quote] A lot of this has to be viewed upon with a pinch of salt. I could have a ton of things wrong here! I realize that Bungie, as a company, has changed drastically since Halo's origins. There are a ton of new people on the team and not all of the original writers remain. If this theory may be true, Joyeuse and Charlemagne may not show up because of the company's evolution. [quote][b]Links:[/b] [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=68213981]My God, It's Full of Stars - The Destiny Map[/url] by SonicJohn [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=69922521]Predicting Destiny Based on Halo 3: ODST and Halo Reach[/url] by SonicJohn [url=http://misriahsolutions.com/articles/waiting-for-destiny/1/]Waiting for Destiny[/url] on Misriah Solutions [url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/puzzles.html]Facts and Puzzling Things About...[/url] on Marathon's Story Page [i]My Links[/i]: [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=40929715]Original Thread[/url]. You know, in case you missed it. >_> [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=56466577]Copyright Thread[/url] [/quote][/quote]

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  • Edited by Chivlet: 6/9/2014 9:17:47 PM
    Bump, bump, bump it up!

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  • bumped into this

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  • how do I favorite this hun?

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  • Nice job. I've now read this thread over several times. I still can't imagine how you just figured this all out. Oh and bump.

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  • Bump.

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  • 3
    Silent
    Silent

    These digits are resoundingly true. - 9/26/2016 6:16:56 AM

    One character that (as far as I see) appears to be missing from this analysis (which is great by the way) is Wayland the Smith; the supposed forger of the three swords. Perhaps the most mysterious yet pivotal character of the Marathon Universe was Bernard Strauss; the man that "tortured" Durandal into his meta-stable rampancy. The analogy to the process of forging steel should be somewhat obvious. Cortana would seem to share a similar relationship with Halsey, though the fact that she is a scan of Halsey's mind, and supposedly the intended creation of several ancient AI's (Reach) (plus the Librarian if you count Halo 4), makes the issue too compounded to draw as clear of an analogy. As for Joyeuse, it may be too early to say anything about what made it. That said, there may already be clues. We've heard that Charlemagne's treasures are in the Dust Palace on Mars correct? [quote]Durandal!- I know of Strauss' abuse, of your shame on Mars. But you cannot hide from your own past; such delusions belong to the humans alone. [/quote] Perhaps the similar "steel" the swords are forged from has a more literal meaning than we thought (there are nickel-iron deposits on Mars' surface).

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    3 Replies
    • You sir. Made me orgasm.

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    • Way too confusing, and I read the description of this

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      2 Replies
      • Not entirely certain if it qualifies as "spoilerish" considering how rabid people are for info around here (myself included), but just in case: [spoiler]The marketing materials regarding the Dust Palace state that Charlemagne IS the AI in this case (..."one of the greatest Warminds of the Golden Age"...), which would be a perfect setup to present the player with a quest to retrieve an artifact called "Joyeuse". My guess is that it wouldn't actually be a weapon or other personal item, otherwise everyone & their brother would be eventually waving them around in the game. My money is on either another AI, or a quest-related item that the character will have on a temporary basis only.[/spoiler]

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        3 Replies
        • This is an enlightening and highly intellectual theory, I sincerely hope it holds true.

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        • Man! Nice finds! That is really weird how the stories parallel...

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        • So did Bungie secretly ask y'all to lay low cause you were figuring it out? Sure has been a lot of info released for zero commenting on the theories in this thread.

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          1 Reply
          • Hey come check out our pre-destiny clan!! Here's the link: http://vanguardians.enjin.com/home We welcome you with open arms! Please make sure to give a shout out to Corrosive Honor for getting you there! Chancellors names appear in red on the site so feel free to ask them any questions you may have!

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          • Time for some Marathon!

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          • omg she liked my post!!!! *swoons

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          • I was just thinking about this post the other day. I had no clue I read it from you oh beautiful compiler of all that is good. *bows down teary eyed

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          • Marathon and Halo each had very specific main characters, however, to match up with the swords carriers. But Destiny has only the collective Guardians and no unifying main character. The only option I see is for the Traveler to fill this role, which probably means... [spoiler]the Traveler is going to wake up.[/spoiler]

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            10 Replies
            • I... I think my brain particles have scattered... outside of my skull... Bungie with holds many creative and innovative minds. My mind, however, is blown.

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            • I'm putting my money on Thoth being an AI construct within the traveller.... Just say it would be a Epic tie in.

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            • Joyeuse might represent the power held by the traveler, given to all of the guardians. Joyeuse is "anyone's sword" right. Maybe an collective AI is the power of the traveler.

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              1 Reply
              • I got onto Joyeuse back in the hype up to halo 3, I'm curious if it feeds into reach. Perhaps the traveller is Charlemagne's counter part, and the last city is called Joyeuse... Who knows, it's wide open for interpretation at this point. I was beginning to think i was the only one who had dug that up. My original post years ago went largely unnoticed "I think you're reading into it to much" they said... We'll see. Good job man.

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              • Wow, that's some fantastic research work right there, can't wait to see if this is the case in Destiny!

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