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#Halo

2/12/2011 8:43:15 AM
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NEW IP: Seven Seraphs, Osiris, New Monarchy, Dead Orbit

(Holy crap a new IP thread from Cortana... again!) Gentlemen (and ladies), Last month, [url=http://www.joystiq.com/2011/01/11/bungie-seven-seraphs-osiris-new-monarchy-dead-orbit/]new copyrights/trademarks[/url] under Bungie's name were found after Bungie Aerospace showed up ([url=http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=77950813]whatever it is[/url]). The purpose of this thread is to take a look at the new phrases that Bungie recently copyrighted, define/analyze them, connect them to each other, the Bungie universe, and a possible new IP. Before I go any further, the vast majority of any "findings" I reveal in here is from [url=http://forums.bungie.org/story/?read=58398]the Marathon Story forums[/url]. The research, insightful and witty statements, and any viable conclusions are from the good people at MBO. I'm just compiling ideas and putting them here. [u]NOBODY FREAK OUT, MKAY?[/u] >>>[u]Osiris[/u] Courtesy of poenadare: Enter, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatures_of_Light_and_Darkness]Creatures of Light and Darkness[/url]. [quote]Ah, here's a tried-and-true method for getting a feel for Bungie plots - find a sci-fi or fantasy book that covers those terms.[/quote] If history is to repeat itself here, it would be safe to say that [i]Creatures of Light and Darkness[/i] (or at least a novel like it) could be to the new IP as [i]Consider Phlebas[/i] and [i]Ender's Game[/i] were to Halo. But let's get back into vocabulary, here. The Wikipedia page threw around several names: A name familiar to this subject... Osiris- Ruler of the underworld ~and~ Anubis- Mummification and afterlife ~Dead things, yaaay? [b]While we have:[/b] Thoth- Knowledge, intelligence, the heart (thought to be the seat of the mind's intelligence) Set- Desert, storms, and foreigners Anyone remember Thoth? If you don't, go to the Marathon Story page... NOW! [quote][i]Beware. The mythical Thoth was concerned with maintaining the balance between creation and destruction, yes and no, light and darkness, not the triumph of one over the other. Do you remember the days when computers were simple, unreasoning things you could turn off and on like flashlights? Is memory what we perceived or what we want? What does Thoth think? He concerns himself with the states of off and on, good and evil. Isn't his perception simple? Doesn't it have to be? I will return.[/i][/quote] >>>[u]Seven Seraphs[/u] Seraph literally means "[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seraph]burning ones[/url]." A seraph is a fiery six-winged being attending on God. Four of these wings cover the being's body. Isaiah 6:7: "[i]With it he touched my mouth and said, "See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for.[/i]" So we've gone from a Sci-Fi book, to ancient Egypt, to the prophet Isaiah (and the book of Revelation. They're in there.). Never fear! Poenadare is here! [quote]Some authorities hold that the seraphim had their origin in the Egyptian "seref," a composite, winged creature, half lion and half eagle, which guarded graves, carried dead kings up to heaven, and transmitted prayers thither. [/quote] More dead things, yaaaaaaaaaaaay. Several of our search queries sent us back to Zelzany references (author of Creatures of Light and Darkness. Pay attention). But, I eventually stumbled upon [url=http://kimbasangels.com/egypt.html]this[/url]. Basically, a well-known Egyptian "angel" is Isis, the angel of death. [u]More dead things[/u]. >>>[u]New Monarchy[/u] This is on of the two tougher ones. Do a simple search of the term and you get sent back to [url=http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?v1=1&ti=1,1&Search_Arg=New%20Monarchy&Search_Code=TALL&CNT=25&PID=2p_ctW8uQHfnuBBjV0AKGajQp&SEQ=20110212031630&SID=1]a copyright catalog concerning Bungie[/url]. [quote]Unrelated note: [url=http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SA=Bungie%20LLC&PID=lIBaOBitG9Tqu7f4KbboAid2C&BROWSE=1&HC=23&SID=2]Find #7 on this page[/url]. Yeah, that's right. [i][No title on deposit] [/i][/quote] Anyways, I really don't have much to to on for this one. If anything, it reminds me of Charlemagne. [quote][url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=40929715]Today he is regarded not only as the founding father of both French and German monarchies, but also as the father of Europe: his empire united most of Western Europe for the first time since the Romans, and the Carolingian renaissance encouraged the formation of a common European identity.[/url][/quote] Buuuut, that's completely biased on my part. Back to the MBO forums: By Poenadare, [quote]I don't recall Zelazny doing anything Arthurian or Carolingian. The closest he came was The Chronicles of Amber series, which makes me envy you because you haven't read it yet. Ah memories. Anyway, one notable thing about the multi-dimensional Amber is that you can have situations where a particularly awesome sword is Excalibur in one universe, Cortana in another, Durandal in another, and Joyeuse in another. They are all reflections of one really bad ass sword that's stuck in a closet somewhere in the "prime" reality called Amber. Er, ah, do I need to mention Michael Moorcock: "... Moorcock's books are generally linked into a super-cycle by the device of the Eternal Champion. This has all of the heroes being linked by the possession of the same spirit, a kind of meta-hero, whether they know it or not. ..."[/quote] We're still stuck in the realm of making vague connections, but it's something to [i]think about[/i]. Where else has this concept been used (don't say Bungie)? >>>[u]Dead Orbit[/u] Like "New Monarchy," I ended up in the [url=http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?Search_Arg=Dead+Orbit&Search_Code=TALL&PID=wwg0g9HrPwOQSqJi_m1NLb7WHypk&SEQ=20110111081952&CNT=25&HIST=1]same situation[/url]. The only "connection" I can make is the word "dead." The first two terms are died to death and the afterlife. Coincidence? Or are these terms wearing matching suits? ***--->[U]LET ME REMIND YOU...[/U]<---*** Definitions and connections for these terms might as well still be up in the air, [b]ESPECIALLY[/b] for New Monarchy and Dead Orbit. Take this with a pinch of salt and don't just take this thread's word for it. So, what can we infer from these new terms? Are we looking right at the key players in the new IP? Are we looking at the name for this new universe? Tell me what you think! Tell me what you know! Again, I'd like to thank Poenadare for helping me out here. I'm not very cultured in good literature, and he knows his stuff. [Edited on 02.12.2011 11:11 AM PST]

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  • Sounds a bit like Stargate to me. But that's just me. I don't think they can be factions, Seeing Dead Orbit, just brings a space-station that's been long abandoned. Seven Seraphs sound like a council, or an elite-guard. Osiris sounds like an operative code-name. and New Monarchy sounds like an operation... that's what comes to mind for me.

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  • Agh, making my brain work again? Very interesting, can't wait to see how it all plays out! Thread saved.

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  • Thank you! I felt that the Charlemagne connection was reasonable, considering how he's connected to Cortana, Durandal, and Joyeuse. I'm actually considering buying the books through Amazon.com, seeing that they're pretty cheap. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AutobahnRacer DEAD THINGS IN SPACE WOOOOOOOOOOO Those are some fairly logical connections that you've made, and they make sense. And I'd agree that Charlemagne seems to be pointed to in that description - It seems accurate, though I suppose you could connect that with a couple of other historical figures, but there aren't very many that match that exact description. I hadn't really thought about it too deeply before, but Excalibur being in Amber (a prime universe) is intriguing, to say the least...[/quote]

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  • Seven Seraphs, Osiris, New Monarchy, Dead Orbit. ^Factions in an MMO. I win.

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  • [b]I [i]loved[/i] Ender's Game. One of the best books I've ever read. Great read. Ender's Shadow was just as good, too.[/b] [Edited on 02.17.2011 12:26 PM PST]

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  • For some reason Dead Orbit reminds me of Dead Space

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  • DEAD THINGS IN SPACE WOOOOOOOOOOO Those are some fairly logical connections that you've made, and they make sense. And I'd agree that Charlemagne seems to be pointed to in that description - It seems accurate, though I suppose you could connect that with a couple of other historical figures, but there aren't very many that match that exact description. I hadn't really thought about it too deeply before, but Excalibur being in Amber (a prime universe) is intriguing, to say the least... [Edited on 02.17.2011 11:23 AM PST]

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  • I over-analyze things to later see how wrong I was. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mind Reaper 771 What would be the point of over-analyzing all these things? If they are making a new IP, you could just wait. Isn't more fun when things suprising you? Making all these guesstimations would prove to be fruitless efforts and a waste of time if that's not the case. I don't mean to rain on your parade really, but I'm just saying. You can take it how you want. [/quote]

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  • Well, Jason Jones is a game designer first and foremost. He was the one who had the idea for Halo's enemy AI even before Marathon, I believe. For studios like Bungie, it's game mechanics first, wrap the story around it later, or hand in hand. Possibly now they're doing both hand in hand. Hopefully now that they're planning for sequels and such, unlike with Halo, they can outline the entire story, so we can get a much leaner experience. Because of that, I do believe game mechanics go hand in hand with the story and mythology, that's why I was bringing that stuff up about Mass Effect. And I really do think they're taking it in a more RPG territory, or at least, I hope they do. I can't see such an innovative company let everyone else pass them by. I think you'll still be playing as a super soldier, or possibly as a god, or demi-god, which connects to your post. I don't think they are done with that play space. They stick to what they know, and improve upon it. The space combat is definitely them dipping their toes into that area. Hopefully we can see that expanded in the series, possibly exploring planets on your own. [Edited on 02.13.2011 5:35 PM PST]

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  • I have a feeling that it may incorporate some of Halo Reach's space combat into it. I mean, Dead Orbit, Aerospace? I have a feeling that the space combat in Reach wasn't just something cool they added in but a toned down version of what is going to be in their new IP. That's my two cents on the matter though.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mind Reaper 771 What would be the point of over-analyzing all these things? If they are making a new IP, you could just wait. Isn't more fun when things suprising you? Making all these guesstimations would prove to be fruitless efforts and a waste of time if that's not the case. I don't mean to rain on your parade really, but I'm just saying. You can take it how you want. [/quote] Because it's enjoyable. Any other questions?

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  • What would be the point of over-analyzing all these things? If they are making a new IP, you could just wait. Isn't more fun when things suprising you? Making all these guesstimations would prove to be fruitless efforts and a waste of time if that's not the case. I don't mean to rain on your parade really, but I'm just saying. You can take it how you want.

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  • I, personally, am not so sure if the phrases are spin-offs or key figures in the next IP. After studying the nature of the phrases/names, I'm more on the side of them being key figures, instead of [IRL] spin-off names. As for Jones looking at Mass Effect for inspiration, I'm thinking that he was working on the new universe instead of game mechanics. If the stories behind Marathon, Myth, and Halo are any indication, it would make sense that the canon/lore has been worked on for so long, and only now (after Halo's development for Bungie is over) can the mechanics really be worked on. I do like the idea of putting different elements of a game onto different platforms, though. Although I haven't much insight into that subject. With all due respect (because you DO deserve it), I think that you're speculating on things that can't be with such little information. I feel that the lore, theme of the universe, and plot devices have more potential to be revealed through research right now. The game's genre, mechanics, etc. aren't attached to the copyrighted phrases in a way that anyone (right now) could figure out. As for Toy Fair, there will be nothing Bungie related. Check the BWU. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Fantastic Toes ~[i]Long ass post[/i]~[/quote]

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  • As long as i dont see something like the flood, i'll be happy XD they have gotten old.

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  • These are the kinds of posts I want to see on the forums. Fantastic stuff, OP. Great dig up on the Zelazny novel too. A few thoughts, long post up ahead, don't say I didn't warn ya. :) I don't think the title of the new series has been revealed. I have a feeling all these new trademarks are spin-offs, or something similar. Bungie has said they want you to experience their new universe on whatever platform possible. So I'm possibly thinking, maybe Dead Orbit refers to either a downloadable game on the iPhone, or a hub for info, a bit like the Mass Effect codex -- just an example. I've been thinking about where Bungie's heading for the next ten years quite a lot. I remember playing Halo:CE and Marathon while in junior high, huge landmarks in my life, so I'm excited to see where they're going to do. Jason Jones has been working with a small team since Halo 3 shipped, working on a new universe. I have a feeling he was playing Mass Effect which came out the same year and started seeing what they were doing -- dialog trees, customizable characters, that feeling of truly being in a universe, and talking to aliens, and other people. If you look at some of the job descriptions, they allude to these role-playing elements. Not saying Bungie's next game will be Mass Effect -- personally, I think it'll be similar, but much bigger. I least I hope it will be. I know it won't be an MMO. There's no way. Especially as Microsoft has a gate on those kinds of things. It is possible Bungie has a special deal worked out with them, who knows. Maybe it'll be a persistent world, like WoW, but with no fee, and maybe there's micro-transactions -- like pay for new armor, or something, but that doesn't seem right. Bungie's very streamlined when it comes to design, that seems very cumbersome. I hope they take Forge to a new whole level. I want them to retain their trademark sandbox gameplay and the best enemy AI in the industry. I also want them to really go all out in the competitive space. There's a possibility that Joe Staten's remarks about having a world always be there for you is buying a regular 60 dollar game, having the multiplayer, maybe some kind of open world feature for you and your friends. When you're not playing, you can read updates from that universe on your cell phone like Mass Effect has been doing from the Cerberus network every single day since the game launched in January of 2010. Maybe also having some crap Facebook game like Bioware's launching in front of Dragon Age 2 (I hope not). Jason Jones said in the making of Halo 3 that he's working right now in trying to gain back that sense of mystery in his new game -- that same sense of mystery you first had when you walked out of the ship in Halo: CE and saw the Halo, and going, "Where the hell am I?" We'll probably hear about the game next week, that Toy Fair, maybe hear about a partnership with some toy company, like McFarlane Toys. E3 will kick down the doors on the new game, a big reveal, but we won't see it till Fall 2012. Possibly a new engine, or a modified version of the Reach engine.

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  • 1st page

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  • I'm confused, what exactly can't you get behind? I agree that corporate misinformation isn't the case here. I think that the depth that these phrases have already provided has proven contrary to misinformation. I hope to see your ideas soon. :) [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Davey Phoenix [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 One would not go through the trouble of copyrighting/trademarking all of these words as a joke. It would be a waste of resources and time. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ferrrari Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. wtf did i just read.... I still think these are random words bungie are putting out to fool with us??? [/quote][/quote] I cant entirely get behind this. As a joke, no, they wouldnt. Do billion dollar companies like MS and Bungie frequently use corporate dissinformation? Yes, yes they do. But, i doubt thats the case here. I have some ideas, but i will need to roll them around a little bit first before i share them.[/quote] Really? I don't remember seeing it. Ironically, I probably posted in it. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] antony X1000 I remember seeing a thread about this in the Community Forum a few weeks ago. This one is far more in depth though.[/quote]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 One would not go through the trouble of copyrighting/trademarking all of these words as a joke. It would be a waste of resources and time. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ferrrari Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. wtf did i just read.... I still think these are random words bungie are putting out to fool with us??? [/quote][/quote] I cant entirely get behind this. As a joke, no, they wouldnt. Do billion dollar companies like MS and Bungie frequently use corporate dissinformation? Yes, yes they do. But, i doubt thats the case here. I have some ideas, but i will need to roll them around a little bit first before i share them.

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  • I remember seeing a thread about this in the Community Forum a few weeks ago. This one is far more in depth though.

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  • id love to see an amber game. manipulating sadow to help you kill stuff- hell yes! anyway, all the death makes me think that it may be a survival/horror. but there are fantasy refs so it maty be more like that. really, its all up in the air.

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  • One would not go through the trouble of copyrighting/trademarking all of these words as a joke. It would be a waste of resources and time. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ferrrari Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. wtf did i just read.... I still think these are random words bungie are putting out to fool with us??? [/quote]

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  • Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. wtf did i just read.... I still think these are random words bungie are putting out to fool with us???

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] IListen2No1isme what does this have to do with bungie my good sir or madame[/quote]This has a lot to do with Bungie! [quote]Last month, new copyrights/trademarks under Bungie's name were found after Bungie Aerospace showed up (whatever it is).[/quote] The connections I'm trying to make and the phrases analyzed were recently copyrighted by Bungie, for what I believe is for the new IP. I said that in the OP. Read it again, good sir. And it's madame.

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  • Thanks for the info, we'll just have to wait and see what Bungie's new IP is. (Can't wait)

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  • this is conjecture on what Bungie's new game will be...and quite good slothing I must say....

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  • what does this have to do with bungie my good sir or madame

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