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12/24/2010 11:46:03 PM
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I just can't justify eating meat anymore

[quote]Heifer whines could be human cries Closer comes the screaming knife This beautiful creature must die This beautiful creature must die A death for no reason And death for no reason is MURDER And the flesh you so fancifully fry Is not succulent, tasty or kind It's death for no reason And death for no reason is MURDER And the calf that you carve with a smile It is MURDER And the turkey you festively slice It is MURDER Do you know how animals die? Kitchen aromas aren't very homely It's not "comforting", cheery or kind It's sizzling blood and the unholy stench Of MURDER It's not "natural", "normal" or kind The flesh you so fancifully fry The meat in your mouth As you savour the flavour Of MURDER NO, NO, NO, IT'S MURDER NO, NO, NO, IT'S MURDER Oh... and who cares about an animals life? ~Anon[/quote] As Morrissey once said: "nobody can come up with a good argument for eating animals - nobody can. People as some kind of a joke say, well, 'It's tasty', but it's only tasty once you garnish it and you put salt and pepper, and you cook it, and you have to do 300 things to it to disguise its true taste. If you put garnishes on a chair or fabric, it would probably taste quite nice." Animals who die for your dinner table die alone, in terror, in sadness and in pain. The killing is merciless and inhumane. There is absolutely no reason why we should eat meat from an evolutionary or 'natural' perspective either. Our bodies are not designed to. Just, how do I stop, I suppose you could say I'm addicted.
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  • Congratulations, the most pointless thread in existence. Seriously, this brings up memories of my old neighbor who used to intern for PeTA, makes me wanna punch both her and the creator of this thread.
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  • Not all action requires reason, that is my justification.
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  • *claps*.......OP you are the master troll of the flood. No one can be so stupid as to say that our bodies are not designed for meat. We are Omnivores, there for we are ABLE to DIGEST BOTH forms of food. IF we were not designed for meat as you have previsouly stated then we counld NOT DIGEST it properly by gaining nuitrents and protien. Our teeth may be dsigned for fish but our stomach can digest meat regardles of the ways we aquire it. If your are serious then logic FAIL.
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  • *Sigh* You're going to make me type my essay on why eating meat is not as big of a crime as people say it is? Fine. I'll type it again. Animals are not human. I know, it seems pretty obvious, but they aren't. However, why do we treat them as human then? We put sweaters on animals, we give them treats all the time and just let them lie around the house all day. We think they're happy. We think that their excited yipping when we get home is them happy to see us. We think that the cat is rubbing against us to show just how much it loves us. Well, time to break it to you: That dog that you let lie around the house all day eating treats is absolutely miserable. The dog that's yipping when you get home has anxiety and is frustrated. The cat that's rubbing against you is claiming you as its pet, and disgracing you. Animals are not humans, yet why do we label them as such? We don't see Scrappy as a dog, but as the name on the food bowl. The dog doesn't actually know that its name is Scrappy, it has been trained to respond to you saying "Scrappy!" Now let's look at cows. Cows are the lowest of the low on the food chain. They live in constant danger in the wild from MANY things. Animals brutally murdering them, starving to death, getting lost from the herd. It is quite dangerous business being a cow. Now, imagine you're a cow. Here is the list of what you want: Food, water, shelter, a herd, and preferably a mate. Here is what you don't want: To be separated from the herd, to starve, to be dehydrated. Now, in captivity, cows are given everything they need. Shelter, food, water, and they are with their herd, and many of them are bred. They aren't majestic animals galloping around in wide open spaces. This idea of animals wanting more is not the case. That's what HUMANS want. Now let's look at chickens: Chickens are quite dumb. I'm just going to tell you right now. They are dumb. They just don't know that much about the world. They'd much sooner walk straight into a wolf den as drown in a stream. However, in a chicken coop, they are unable to drown. They can't wander into dangerous places. I give you the same list of needs as the cows. The chicken coop gives all of that. If we are to look at animals properly and make them truly happy, we need to throw away this notion that animals are humans. Animals are not humans. They don't dwell on death the same way that we do. Sure, the animals don't WANT to die, but there are a lot of things that they don't WANT. They know that they will die one day, and they are fine with that. And if animals were smart enough to be able to relate complex ideas to us, I'm sure they'd prefer a life of safety and captivity with everything that they could ever want, knowing that they will die one day from a butcher to be fed to many people than living in the wild where none of that is guaranteed. Also, humans are omnivores. That doesn't just mean vegetables, and that doesn't just mean meat. It means we need both to live a healthy life. I'm sorry to break it to you, but we aren't herbivores. We would be made very differently if that was the case. [Edited on 12.27.2010 10:46 PM PST]
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Pathetic Meat [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rUEpmbdZLw]Absolutely, completely, and definitely relevant.[/url] [/quote] 1.What a waste of food 2.How are they not fat as hell 3.How are they not dead
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  • how did a thread like this get over 2000 comments!
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Pathetic Meat [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rUEpmbdZLw]Absolutely, completely, and definitely relevant.[/url] [/quote]Seems tasty.
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  • I wanna keep this thread alive see how long it will last
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  • Its the food chain.
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  • [sorry, double post] [Edited on 12.27.2010 10:12 PM PST]
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  • I can't believe anyone would hold such a high regard for animals like the cow or even fish. Stating that they have "feelings" and cry in so-called "sorrow" for the deaths of their loved ones. If you had any spec of intelligence in you, you would see that not one of these creatures we eat have any spec of intelligence in [i]them[/i]! There's a reason why we don't eat dolphins, elephants, apes, or horses: intelligence. If they can feel these emotions and if we feel they are truly precious and intelligent, then we won't kill them for our needs. It's that simple. Now go ahead and save that cow from the production line and see if it thanks you...
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] china [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mister Math Are any of the animals I eat even capable of metacognition? Didn't think so. Given this, what is the difference between eating a plant and eating an animal? [/quote] Idiocy at its best.[/quote]Is that so? I have yet to see anyone provide me with a link that has a study proving that animals that are commonly eaten (e.g. cows, pigs, chickens, fish) are capable of metacognition. Until then, I'm afraid you should back up your claims with logic or evidence before attacking me. [/quote] *waits for proof they dont have the ability of metacognition*[/quote]*waits for justification of the philosophy that someone should be agnostic about a claim that has absolutely no evidence, or assume it true*
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  • Meat tastes bad.
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  • [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rUEpmbdZLw]Absolutely, completely, and definitely relevant.[/url]
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] XII CIUTCH IIX [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] JthePirate isnt it easier to chew raw meat? i mean i think it is...[/quote] Nah, it's very hard. Humans can't do it, I think there are some eskimo's who can actually chew seal meat, and they have the strongest human jaws in the world, and they can only just do it. They still really struggle with it.[/quote] Considering the meat the chew is frozen, thats is not a viable example to prove humans cant chew raw meat.
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  • This thread is still going? Seriously people, just let the thing die before it becomes a pinned topic.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mister Math Are any of the animals I eat even capable of metacognition? Didn't think so. Given this, what is the difference between eating a plant and eating an animal? [/quote] Idiocy at its best.[/quote]Is that so? I have yet to see anyone provide me with a link that has a study proving that animals that are commonly eaten (e.g. cows, pigs, chickens, fish) are capable of metacognition. Until then, I'm afraid you should back up your claims with logic or evidence before attacking me. [/quote] *waits for proof they dont have the ability of metacognition*
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  • DAMN U EDIT FUNCTION And now its 82 [Edited on 12.27.2010 5:52 PM PST]
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  • This thread is 82 pages /thread [Edited on 12.27.2010 5:52 PM PST]
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  • JUST DIE ALREADY!
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  • So whatever happened to B12?
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  • LAST POST FOR ME
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  • I couldn't give a -blam!- about morals towards other animals. We are more intelligent as a species, so we rule, and eat other animals. If other animals were more intelligent, I would accept my fate, and probably be prey. I will always eat meat. It tastes good and it's healthy.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] The Highwayman48 1. Most deaths of animals for food are humane. 2. It's not healthy to not eat meat. 3. It [b]is[/b] natural for us to eat meat. I think all vegatarians are retards that can't handle eating an animal.[/quote] Well then you are an idiot. Can't you just accept a person's opinion without calling them a retard at least?
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  • 1. Most deaths of animals for food are humane. 2. It's not healthy to not eat meat. 3. It [b]is[/b] natural for us to eat meat. I think all vegatarians are retards that can't handle eating an animal.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] XII CIUTCH IIX 1. Hypothetically, let's say meat is necessary for survival. It becomes a matter of killing them or dying, then I believe it is justified to kill them. I'm not saying it's right, but it is a matter of survival of the fittest, and it's just the way the world works, that's a fair argument. I still do not justify torturing animals for survival, but to kill them to live is justifiable (not necessarily right). I'm not saying I'm perfect, I'm selfish and greedy enough to value my own life higher than other peoples and animals (not necessarily the people I care about, but others). Like, I would kill someone who threatened my life, but I wouldn't kill someone to survive if they weren't the threat (well, I don't believe that it's right to do). Now let's say that meat isn't necessary for survival, but it has it's health benefits. I think it makes it more justifiable, but far from it, because a healthy diet can easily be obtained from other sources. Now let's say that meat is bad for you, it causes diseases (which to me seems the truth, mixed in with some benefits, such as effective protein intake) then I believe it's not only torturing and killing for greed, it becomes even greedier, because it's also bad for you. 2. You cannot prove there is a true value to anything, that's been proven by the meat - eaters. It's just something that you feel, you know, and I can't put it any better than, "there is a preciousness to all life, aside from your own". People here have shown that they just believe animals are unfeeling creatures, the same as an inanimate object, yet they don't understand that they can feel. Can you tell me that an animal's life is less worthy than yours? I can't tell you that it is precious, but can you tell me that it's not? If you can't, then who are you to take it's life away? 3. No, I'm saying it's worse if they can feel pain. The killing part (the physical act of killing) is ok, if it can't feel pain, but ending it's life, that's not our decision to make. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. 4. Refer to my point 1, the answer is the same. 5. To numb all feeling from an animal, and to do it so that it doesn't suffer it to also completely numb the mind too (it will still experience fear if it can't experience pain). So to do this, is the same as killing it. And since I don't believe plants can feel pain, or such like, I think it's ok to take a plants life (because it's not really alive anyway, it's like a computer in a way). So as long as it's not hurting the eco-system, it's not exactly murder to uproot a plant. 3 (Original 3). It doesn't affect it. If we don't NEED to eat meat, then we can't justify slaughtering them for food. The only reason I've argued that it's not evolutionary to eat meat (check our canines that can't rip through raw meat) is because it's another counter to the argument that we are designed to eat meat. If you can prove you aren't designed to eat meat, then they can't even argue that. But even if we were perfectly capable of eating meat, it still doesn't make it right. Thanks for the questions, I wasn't trying to avoid anything, sorry if it seems that way.[/quote] Super long-ass post alert. 1. What you just said is that you would kill and eat animals if it becomes a convenience for you. Like I said before, you could always just die if you really thought that animals were equal to humans, or if you really thought that killing them for their meat is immoral, or if you really thought that it is greedy to kill something that "feels" when you don't have to. You know what? I eat meat because it is convenient and it tastes good. And what you told me is that the only reason you aren't doing the same is because right now you have something else to eat. You would kill an animal in order to survive if you had nothing else to eat? So be it. I would kill an animal in order to get one meal, even if I would live without doing so. Funny how we all have our own set of morals. Funny how we all have opinions. If you think that it is wrong to kill animals, no matter what, regardless of your justification for doing so, why would you kill one, even if your life depends on it? If you think that it is okay to kill animals if you can justify doing so, then who gets to decide when someone has properly justified the kill? You say you believe there are health-related consequences for eating meat, but in truth, there are health-related consequences for doing most anything. Same for only eating plants. If you don't eat the right kinds in the right amounts with the right preparations, you will suffer for it. If you don't eat the right kinds of meat in the right amounts with the right preparations, you will suffer for it. Whether or not something is considered "healthy" should not be a factor in whether or not it is right to do something. I remember on the Colbert Report when someone said that it was their right to get dysentery if they want. You might not be able to justify yourself eating meat for health reasons, but those are personal reasons you yourself hold, while another may not. So your biggest problem with eating meat is probably the fact that animals are killed in the first place. For the record, killing animals is not murder. Murder is the unlawful killing of another person. If an intelligent alien race came to Earth, and someone killed on of them, it would not be murder. However, I'm sure that laws would change to include all intelligent being, and not just humans, under the category of possibly being murdered. Like it or not, killing an animal is not murder. Claiming it to be murder is comparing an animal directly to a human being in terms of worth. It is like saying that they are the same thing. Which is something you like to believe, so it is no wonder you would consider it murder. 2. You say you have no justification for your belief that animals are equal to humans; you simply believe that they are. Well, sorry, but if you have no reason for it, you can't actually expect anyone else to care. I don't believe animals are equal to humans, and I [i] do [/i] happen to have a reason for it. I value life based on intelligence, sapience, and consciousness. I value life based on its ability to feel. Are chickens aware of their own ability to feel fear, hunger, pain? Are they aware of themselves at all? Please don't use the "You can't prove that they don't" argument. For no reason should we assume that all life is sapient when we have only a single definite example. 3. So killing it is okay, but ending its life is not? What? Or do you mean that it's fine to kill them if they choose? Oh, alright. How about you find me an animal that can choose whether or not he wants us to kill him. I guess we'll act according to his wishes. And, if by some amazing coincidence, we find an animal that [i] can't [/i] choose between life or death, what do we do then? I'm assuming you'd want us to keep it alive, but for what? If it can't choose between life or death, what consciousness does it have to preserve? If we kill it, we can use its meat, its fur or feathers. I think you already know what the masses have chosen to do in this case. 4. Since you answered them the same even though they weren't the same question, please refer to my number 1. 5. Really? Well, I guess it's a good thing that my point had nothing at all to do with whether or not animals can feel pain if you sedate them! If you remove all pain, all feeling from an animal, is it then okay to kill them? It would be just like a plant, which of course [i] isn't really alive anyway. [/i] By the way, I'd love to know how you can say that plants are less alive than animals, but when someone says that animals aren't as valuable as humans, that's some sort of ignorance. It doesn't exactly hurt an ecosystem to kill a chicken for food. After all, they are domesticated animals. Not killing them would hurt the ecosystem even more. They'd become overpopulated, and conditions would just get worse for them. 6. Your answer to my third question. Well, we don't NEED to eat anything other than meat and plant products (lol?). I could survive on meat, fruit, and certain vegetables without killing any plants. After all, you have said that you can survive on plants and animal products like milk and eggs without killing any animals. Your argument against this is that plants do not "feel" like animals. But you won't accept that other animals do not "feel" like humans. You said because plants do not "feel" like animals, they are like computers, not really alive. You have claimed that people who claim animals are like inanimate objects just "don't understand that they can feel." Well, chickens, cows, and pigs have no metacognition. Humans do. So they don't "feel" like humans. Why don't you consider them to be like computers? You keep saying that animals are equal to humans, but you have never told me why they are. If it's something that you just "know", well, sorry, you can't really use that as an argument. As far as evolution and "design" goes, it could go either way (examples: it's true we can't eat raw meat like most carnivores, but we also can't digest cellulose like most herbivores), but neither answer matters when we have a choice. You think it's wrong to kill animals? You think it's repulsive? Futile? Immoral? That sounds like a good reason for you to restrain from eating meat, but, sorry, it isn't a good reason for everyone to restrain from it. I'm sure we don't have to kill animals brutally or make them suffer longer than is necessary, but your own opinions on killing animals is not any sort of backing for everyone to collectively switch to a vegetarian diet. Sorry to burst your bubble, but just because you have a problem with something, that doesn't mean there's actually a problem with it. 0characterssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
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