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11/3/2010 11:36:08 PM
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Carney's Crash Course: Map Design 101

Get your learn on. [url=/news/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=29601] click for full story [/url]
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] sharkfinboy i wish they put a chin gun on the falcon so the pilot could shoot.[/quote] Same here.
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  • the new defiant map is ok not my favoite but good. i wish they put a chin gun on the falcon so the pilot could shoot. or they should have gernade launcher turret on the side.i wish we could ride in the falcon like in the campaine but i guest bungie cant figure out what people want. bungie should create a veichle pack in wich its loaded with new veichles or with add ons and it shold be sold for 800 pionts or 6-9$.
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  • Great post, great read, and Marty has foul taste. :)
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  • martys right cage is epic but everyone has there own oppinion [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Marty the Elder The Cage is my favorite map of all time!! I love the Cage.[/quote]
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  • There will be a Cage v2 soon.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] chevychiss cage really sucks i h8 asylum aswell (no offense)[/quote] I hate every MM map on Forge World today. None of them are any fun to play on. They are all the same, they just look different. They are boring. They do nothing to keep your imagination, like themed maps. They are all the same - they are all "yet another path map". They all look different - their paths move in different directions. Flight Deck (on my file share) is an aircraft carrier, big team map that plays all game types. It is fun as hick. I never heard so many jaws hitting the ground when playing a custom map. Flight Deck takes you somewhere with its aircraft carrier theme. Sub System is a sub way station map. Rising Dead is a grave yard infection map. Jetway is an airport terminal. These maps take you somewhere and capture your imagination as you play. They immerse you in your game play - you don't wake up out of your game play while playing on them. Atom? Pinnacle? Asylum? What do they do for your imagination as you play? nothing.... [Edited on 12.29.2010 1:58 PM PST]
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] JoeSki73 Suck it haters! The Cage is a good map...[/quote] Really??? I thought Cage was a good map. I had great SWAT games on it. But when I heard others talk about it, i began to realize they were right. It is a poor map for a number of reasons. Do you really think Atom is a good map too? Seriously, curious. I made several maps. I submitted three for forgetacular. I hope Shopping Spree does NOT win. I don't think it is a good map. So I can speak as an honest critic of my own map. Do you really think Atom is MM material? [Edited on 12.28.2010 1:40 PM PST]
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  • also, just a tip for anybody, just downloaded google sketchUp, as suggested in the post, and it's a really good tool for designing halo forge maps.
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  • Yeah i agree!
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] LeBlanc172 some times it is a good map. I got like 6 double kills in one match on it one day. The key is to playing with some people that don't camp. All luck I guess.[/quote] It's practically impossible to camp on a good map. Unfortunately, The Cage is, imo, the worst map in Halo history. And that says a lot with Paradiso now being a candidate
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  • good article, really informative, nice to know i'm not the only one who draws his maps out on paper several times before even starting to forge. have to admit, the cage does frustrate me alot of the time, but i think it's more because of the people i'm playing than the map itself. Didn't realise however that it would in fact take several days to make a map like the cage, i usually take a few hours to make a map, however after that it is difficult to playtest because i never have enough people to test it properly with, which can become very frustrating at times. Also, was there not meant to be a copy and paste tool within forge mode? i watched the forgeworld viDoc before reach came out and i thought they mentioned it in there. If so, what happened to it? that would be a very very useful tool. there should also be an easier way of getting your maps noticed, like a bungie favourites type thing, but with more maps on
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  • I think you should have an online game type which you can fly around in the space ships that is in the mission at the space station and instead of choosing classes you choose space ships [Edited on 11.13.2010 6:22 AM PST]
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  • cage really sucks i h8 asylum aswell (no offense) [Edited on 11.13.2010 6:18 AM PST]
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  • some times it is a good map. I got like 6 double kills in one match on it one day. The key is to playing with some people that don't camp. All luck I guess.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] driedroasted [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SYN Burning Sky [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] driedroasted For the record I had another classic match on Cage yesterday winning 50-49 with a last gasp sniper spree. I guess I'm just brilliant.[/quote] That almost proves how bad the Cage is. Close games should ONLY happen between two teams that are essentially equal. Of course, if you keep having these "classics games," it's probably because the map provokes little to no skill gap, and thus, little to no score gap.[/quote] Oh this proves it does it? But on the other hand I'm told it proves nothing! You gotta love nitpicking gamers :) Heard of Trueskill by the way?[/quote] It doesn't prove anything, I just wanted to discredit the whole, "it's a good map because I have a bunch of close games" argument
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SYN Burning Sky [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] driedroasted For the record I had another classic match on Cage yesterday winning 50-49 with a last gasp sniper spree. I guess I'm just brilliant.[/quote] That almost proves how bad the Cage is. Close games should ONLY happen between two teams that are essentially equal. Of course, if you keep having these "classics games," it's probably because the map provokes little to no skill gap, and thus, little to no score gap.[/quote] Oh this proves it does it? But on the other hand I'm told it proves nothing! You gotta love nitpicking gamers :) Heard of Trueskill by the way?
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  • hi
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  • Good tutorial, but the map could have been better. Team Snipers is a nightmare on it.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SYN Burning Sky [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Severan I still have yet to see anyone name a map that everyone can agree is a great map with few (if any at all) problems.[/quote] Prisoner, Midship, Damnation, Bever Creek happy?[/quote] Those four maps have two votes apiece at the moment... though I can tell you that I know a few people that absolutely =despise= prisoner.
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  • This was a wonderful tutorial. It really helped me out. Before this, I would just sit down in front of the television and played with the forge. I would start out knowing exactly what I'd do, then the spotlight hits and I lose it all. I barely remember anything I do the next day and end up deleting the map. I always think about making a regular 4v4 slayer-based map. Then I come back thinking about making a CTF-specific map. I use parts that end up useless to the overall outcome of the map. This post may well be the most useful one I've read since I joined. Thank you, Bungie. Sincerely, Alpacino C.
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  • Eh. Cage is fun. much better than Lockout from H2 IMO. Great guide. Much simpler than that one kid's 30 Lesson guide. Much better, too.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] driedroasted For the record I had another classic match on Cage yesterday winning 50-49 with a last gasp sniper spree. I guess I'm just brilliant.[/quote] That almost proves how bad the Cage is. Close games should ONLY happen between two teams that are essentially equal. Of course, if you keep having these "classics games," it's probably because the map provokes little to no skill gap, and thus, little to no score gap.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Severan I still have yet to see anyone name a map that everyone can agree is a great map with few (if any at all) problems.[/quote] Prisoner, Midship, Damnation, Bever Creek happy?
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] HMBRGR [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] LinkLegend0 I'm sorry but The Cage sucks...[/quote] Yeah I agree with that i made a map myself by the waterfalls its called Waterfall :) some of my friends said it was better than the Cage(there's a banshee :P) you wanna check it out here's a link to download ithttp://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=7985906&player=HMBRGR thnx if you guys do [/quote] Saying a map is better than the cage is like saying someone is more athletic than Stephing Hawking. It's nothing to be proud of. I'll still DL your map, just sayin...
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] LinkLegend0 I'm sorry but The Cage sucks...[/quote] Yeah I agree with that i made a map myself by the waterfalls its called Waterfall :) some of my friends said it was better than the Cage(there's a banshee :P) you wanna check it out here's a link to download ithttp://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=7985906&player=HMBRGR thnx if you guys do [Edited on 11.09.2010 7:41 AM PST]
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  • Nah, this is all backwards. The community is the one that needs to teach Bungie how to make decent maps. Cause I swear to God, if I play The Cage one more -blam!- time.... But at least now I know what was going on in Bungie's head when they created their legion of God awful maps. That whole "isolated combat spaces" pretty explains why each map is so bad. Isolated combat spaces cannot be done outside of room-based maps. The Call of Duty style maps that encourage no teamwork other than "everyone camp in the same room." Of course, many maps in Reach do involve camping. For instance, the best strategy on Zealot is to gather everyone up and storm through the hallways. This strategy takes no thinking or adaptation, and is therefore bad for competitive gaming. It's made even worse when you start to shoot back and one of the players goes into armor lock. That's why when good players play Zealot, it's just 4 people spamming the trigger and waiting for people to pop out of armor lock. This obviously creates a very small skill gap. On the other hand, many of the maps have these isolated areas as open space that are connected with narrow bridges. These narrow bridges are a death trap for anyone who tries to pass, inevitably breaking any and all map movement. ie: on Pinnacle, people can easily camp on big tower and slaughter anyone who wants to [I]play[/I] Halo. On the Cage, people just choose jetpacks to avoid being destroyed on these pathways. Now, jetpacks do break the game in that someone flying at level can easily get 3-4 shots before being located. It also makes any of the maps cover virtually useless. So when you're in a 4v4 and 8 people are all using jetpacks, it is inherently bad. So a map like the cage that encourages everyone to choose jetpacks is inherently bad. And, of course, in Slayer Pro, people just get dominated on the bridges. And please don't say I'm just bad at the game. It's almost the opposite. Whenever I go into matchmaking, I completely dominate the average person. Only difference is that I can easily dominate. In CE and H2, I had to really try my heart out to beat people because of the subtle complexity of strategy that most of the maps provoked. Now, I can do the same simple strategy over and over again always with the same outcome. When I play customs with people of similar skill, the games ultimately end in a stale mate, 50-49 kind of game where both teams know the one and only dominating strategy, causing what is supposed to be a skillful game to be decided by this game's bloom (or any other random, luck-based factor). EDIT [url=http://www.forgehub.com/forum/forging-201/97349-map-design-theory-knowledge.html]BETTER THREAD ON MAP DESIGN[/url] ^I realize this thread is long and confusing, but frankly, the way Bungie has been designing maps lately is horribly flawed. If you ever want a map that compares to some of the glory that existed in Halo CE's maps, then you'll have to use Forgehub's tutorial, and completely forget the (and I hate to say this) garbage tutorial that Bungie threw at you. [Edited on 11.11.2010 8:07 AM PST]
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